How will transsexual showers affect women’s rights?

[Amelia Pond]

How will transsexual showers affect women's rights?
ADAM J. MACLEOD, Fri Sep 13, 2013 09:16 EST

California has followed Massachusetts into uncharted territory by requiring California schools to make sex-segregated facilities and activities available to members of both sexes. Those who advocated this move might not like all of the implications of what they have accomplished. Among the many likely casualties of these laws will be the logic of the Supreme Court's equal protection jurisprudence, which protects females from suspect classifications in law.

Earlier this year, the Massachusetts Department of Education (MDOE) issued regulatory guidance for Massachusetts schools concerning a recent state statute that prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity. MDOE interprets the statute to give students a right to use the bathroom, locker room, and changing facilities that correspond to the gender with which those students identify, regardless of their biological sex.

[Kia]

Am I the only person who had difficulty discerning the author's point? To me he's saying trans* students should be allowed to use facilities of their proper gender, but that cis-people (girls) shouldn't have to put up with it. I don't know

I'm also reading that trans* girls are boys because of you know, biology. And he doesn't even mention trans* boys who I would imagine are more at risk of discrimination and objectification in a middle school locker room situation.

[generalchaos34]

I work at a school and this is going to be a messy issue. More than likely it will result in a fit by the parents (who are generally far worse than the kids, most of whom just dont care about it) and i think alot of overnight trips are going to be cancelled because teachers will not place themselves in a position where an uncompromising parent will want to sue them. Additionally, theres no actual requirement by the school to verify a students gender presentation, or even a requirement for parents to be involved. Apparently the districts lawyers are in a fervor to write some sort of policy so that they can have their butts covered for the inevitable deluge of lawsuits. And I work at a SMALL school district

[Adam (birkin)]

Some of our school locker rooms had individual showers in them. I think if all schools had at least a FEW individual showers, it would solve the problem almost entirely.  Why can't student, cis or trans, who don't want to be seen, just go into those? I highly doubt a trans person would be comfortable showering in front of a bunch of cis people anyway. And if they are, eh, more power to them lol.

I wasn't partcularly comfortable seeing my friend's budding breasts as it was...changing rooms are just uncomfortable during puberty, end of story.

[retransition]

Some of our school locker rooms had individual showers in them. I think if all schools had at least a FEW individual showers, it would solve the problem almost entirely.  Why can't student, cis or trans, who don't want to be seen, just go into those? I highly doubt a trans person would be comfortable showering in front of a bunch of cis people anyway. And if they are, eh, more power to them lol.

I wasn't partcularly comfortable seeing my friend's budding breasts as it was...changing rooms are just uncomfortable during puberty, end of story.

I totally think this is the way to go.  Teenage years are really awkward sexually and most of us (trans, gay and straight) had a lot of stuff to sort out as puberty kicked in.  I don't think that it is fair for a non trans kid (or the trans kid for that matter) to have to process seeing genitalia of the opposite sex, possibly even for the first time, while they themselves are also naked and feeling "observed" (come on  - you know we all checked each other out back then to see how we compared).  It is a heavy trip to lay on a kid, is unnecessary because accommodations can always be made and could cause adjustment problems for the trans kid.

Before this law was enacted the L.A. school district (and a few others) have been quietly handling the issues associated with gender variant child in an appropriate and sensitive manner that is respectful to all. These school systems have been so successful in this that there hasn't been a news story to report on.  There just isn't any "there there".

I am confident that the (comparatively) well funded and more sophisticated school systems (i.e. those in the larger counties) will have no problem in being compliant with AB1266 (the California bill that was enacted and is now law). They will have a good sense of how to appropriately comply with this law, and have access to child psychology and legal experts to advise them on how to implement in a sensible manner.  A great step forward for all concerned!  What I do worry about are the smaller, understaffed districts with few resources.  Because the law is so vague I think that could lead to problems for these districts that could have disastrous consequences.

To be honest I have not been following this story that much since the initial news of the bill signing.  Does anyone know if the state of California has prepared any additional guidelines on how to enact this law in a way that is sensitive to all?  I mean, is there any sort of panel or anything?

[generalchaos34]

I totally think this is the way to go.  Teenage years are really awkward sexually and most of us (trans, gay and straight) had a lot of stuff to sort out as puberty kicked in.  I don't think that it is fair for a non trans kid (or the trans kid for that matter) to have to process seeing genitalia of the opposite sex, possibly even for the first time, while they themselves are also naked and feeling "observed" (come on  - you know we all checked each other out back then to see how we compared).  It is a heavy trip to lay on a kid, is unnecessary because accommodations can always be made and could cause adjustment problems for the trans kid.

Before this law was enacted the L.A. school district (and a few others) have been quietly handling the issues associated with gender variant child in an appropriate and sensitive manner that is respectful to all. These school systems have been so successful in this that there hasn't been a news story to report on.  There just isn't any "there there".

I am confident that the (comparatively) well funded and more sophisticated school systems (i.e. those in the larger counties) will have no problem in being compliant with AB1266 (the California bill that was enacted and is now law). They will have a good sense of how to appropriately comply with this law, and have access to child psychology and legal experts to advise them on how to implement in a sensible manner.  A great step forward for all concerned!  What I do worry about are the smaller, understaffed districts with few resources.  Because the law is so vague I think that could lead to problems for these districts that could have disastrous consequences.

To be honest I have not been following this story that much since the initial news of the bill signing.  Does anyone know if the state of California has prepared any additional guidelines on how to enact this law in a way that is sensitive to all?  I mean, is there any sort of panel or anything?

The briefing they gave us was extremely vague and the lawyer didnt know what to fully make of it. He did say that the intramural sports has something set up that is better on monitoring students, but that seems to be more inclined to keep someone from pretending to be trans to only gain a sports advantage (which apparently has happened). As much as I think full integration is a great idea for young trans students I think in the interim throwing everyone into the fray with a vague law will do far more hurt than good. Especially in the small schools like mine. During the presentation we already had the teachers jumping up and yelling that they wouldnt allow their children to be in an integrated environment. It made me very sad.

[retransition]

Wow!

[ChelseaAnn]

You know, I look at the California law and I have to laugh. There is a ton of controversy about it, and that one lawmaker or whatever he was pulled his kid from the public school system to protect him from having to shower from "girls" (I'm so sure he'd complain).
Now, I don't know about you, but it seems to me our society (U.S.) has always been about "watching out for number one" and whatnot. You know, there are few good deeds done anymore, most people are in such a rush that, hey, if I need to run someone off the road to get to work right on time, so be it.
Oh, but NOW!!! Now that this law is in, all the parents want "what's best for the majority." ... When did we suddenly get so gracious as to help others out, as long as "those people" suffer. Here's an idea, why don't you come up with a constructive solution instead of embarrassing those kids even further. If I'd be a trans teen in school, I wouldn't out myself there. I'm sure it's hard, but I can just see this being reversed at some point, just like the gay marriage law in California was. Sure, the Supreme Court took care of that problem, but they won't step in until someone decides to veto this bathroom/locker room/shower "problem."
Just my opinion. Our society doesn't want to give unless the problem is our own.
"These freaks (aka trans) want to go into the same bathroom and shower as my son? I don't think so. But if my son gets cancer, someone better find a cure tomorrow." 'Nough said.

[generalchaos34]

You know, I look at the California law and I have to laugh. There is a ton of controversy about it, and that one lawmaker or whatever he was pulled his kid from the public school system to protect him from having to shower from "girls" (I'm so sure he'd complain).
Now, I don't know about you, but it seems to me our society (U.S.) has always been about "watching out for number one" and whatnot. You know, there are few good deeds done anymore, most people are in such a rush that, hey, if I need to run someone off the road to get to work right on time, so be it.
Oh, but NOW!!! Now that this law is in, all the parents want "what's best for the majority." ... When did we suddenly get so gracious as to help others out, as long as "those people" suffer. Here's an idea, why don't you come up with a constructive solution instead of embarrassing those kids even further. If I'd be a trans teen in school, I wouldn't out myself there. I'm sure it's hard, but I can just see this being reversed at some point, just like the gay marriage law in California was. Sure, the Supreme Court took care of that problem, but they won't step in until someone decides to veto this bathroom/locker room/shower "problem."
Just my opinion. Our society doesn't want to give unless the problem is our own.
"These freaks (aka trans) want to go into the same bathroom and shower as my son? I don't think so. But if my son gets cancer, someone better find a cure tomorrow." 'Nough said.

Thats part of my take on it. It unjustly puts the spotlight on kids who would rather blend in and not be the center of attention. Not to mention bringing insane parents who are far far more prejudiced than their children into the mix. I fear for small districts like mine who actually have a smattering of trans kids who at the moment are existing somewhat underground but completely unimpaired. by that i mean we know they are their, but we don't hear much about it because theres nothing to hear about. Which is something I want to see. It seems to me beyond the normal bullying (you're different than me! Ill harass you!) that the majority of kids really arent bothered by trans kids and even less by gay kids. Based on what ive seen from the kids i can positively say that Gays will be more or less fully accepted in a generation and trans people will be lagging to at least 2. That is if the parents arent going to be polluting them along the way of course.