Yeson voice surgery booked

[sarahb]

Here's another video update. The quality of my voice is still returning after so much talking over the holidays, as well as recovering from a bad case of the flu. I'm noticing that my upper speaking range is really getting stronger and I no longer break at the higher speaking frequencies around 280-300Hz. I still have a couple of weeks in the initial recovery period, so I'm continuing to take it easy and not really test out my full range and power.

I got a little worried for a little bit since I had a couple days where I had some pretty bad, rough coughs and thought that I may have affected the voice. However, now that I'm almost all better from the flu I can definitely tell that my voice is getting back to where it was before, or likely better than it was since I'm farther along in the recovery. I did a recording of the rainbow passage today and it settled around 217Hz average, with it rarely going below 200Hz, so I think it's even slowly rising as I get closer to 2 months. That makes sense too, since that's what Dr. Kim said would happen anyways. I notice, though, that I tend to speak at a lower frequency, between 190-200Hz, in general conversation and only go above that when speaking to people I don't know.

It's been a little hard not to sing, and I have to actively stop myself a lot of times. I don't ever try to belt something out, but I notice that I sing a lot under my breath and I have to catch myself. I can tell that the upper range is still limited, as it's still hard to produce notes above 550Hz. I can get up there, but it takes effort and I can't yet try with any power as I don't want to take any chances with messing something up, so that's definitely playing a part. However, just the fact that I can get up to 600Hz right now after only talking for a couple of weeks kind of gives me hope that my range will return and hopefully be higher than what it was pre-op.

[Jennygirl]

Looking and sounding great Sarah!

Yeah whenever I get sick, very paralleled emotions with the "OH GOD have I screwed it up permanently??"

But no, every time it does come back and strangely sometimes it feels stronger for some reason.

Oh my god, your "male" voice is even funnier than mine... I lol'd. These days I can get down to about 135hz at the lowest, but I can't really make enough noise to speak loud enough until 145hz. My topmost frequency (while doing vocal exercises) is now at an A5 880hz.

And I also parallel the pitch changing a lot with people I don't know vs people I do know. I think my voice is generally around the range of 190hz with people I do know, but can go up to 230hz with people I don't know. Every now and then I'll be curious and record myself using my cell phone. By the way, that pitch difference even happens over the phone.

Also, I tried singing the soprano part at the xmas eve church thing that my parents always make me go to... It actually worked out pretty well! I think I could definitely sing alto, and my chest/head voice break being at around G5 is right on the money. All of the carols we sang in the congregation were soprano part only, so for the high notes I would have to drop it down an octave. Overall though I was pretty happy with my singing range. I'm still a long way off from recording myself singing though, I'm sure it doesn't sound that good yet

Thanks for the update, seems like you are recovering wonderfully!

[sarahb]

Looking and sounding great Sarah!

Yeah whenever I get sick, very paralleled emotions with the "OH GOD have I screwed it up permanently??"

But no, every time it does come back and strangely sometimes it feels stronger for some reason.

Oh my god, your "male" voice is even funnier than mine... I lol'd. These days I can get down to about 135hz at the lowest, but I can't really make enough noise to speak loud enough until 145hz. My topmost frequency (while doing vocal exercises) is now at an A5 880hz.

And I also parallel the pitch changing a lot with people I don't know vs people I do know. I think my voice is generally around the range of 190hz with people I do know, but can go up to 230hz with people I don't know. Every now and then I'll be curious and record myself using my cell phone. By the way, that pitch difference even happens over the phone.

Also, I tried singing the soprano part at the xmas eve church thing that my parents always make me go to... It actually worked out pretty well! I think I could definitely sing alto, and my chest/head voice break being at around G5 is right on the money. All of the carols we sang in the congregation were soprano part only, so for the high notes I would have to drop it down an octave. Overall though I was pretty happy with my singing range. I'm still a long way off from recording myself singing though, I'm sure it doesn't sound that good yet

Thanks for the update, seems like you are recovering wonderfully!

Thanks Jenny, I'm glad it still sounds good to others as well. Getting sick is definitely a stress-inducing thing being so early on in the recovery still.

Seriously, an A5 is your highest now? That's really good progress from where you started. I think I remember your highest being around a C5 or something pre-op, and it peaked at around an E5 for a good few months post-op, right? Pretty cool

I've definitely noticed that the lowest I can go is increasing along with the clarity at the higher notes. I just did a quick, really rough measurement and the lowest I can go seems to be around 140Hz now, as opposed to the 170Hz a couple of weeks ago when I first started talking. Although, both of those are nothing compared to the low of 100Hz pre-op, haha.

That's great to hear that your singing voice is coming along. I'm really curious about how that'll be once I do feel comfortable enough to try it again. I'm not sure if I'll ever be posting myself singing though, as I am not as musically-inclined as you seem to be, lol.

[Jennygirl]

Yeah the A5 was a nice surprise a few days ago when I finally got over my cough! Funny to think that I was wondering if I would ever get up to an F5!

When I started vocal exercises, I was straining to hit Bb4. So that's one semitone short of an entire octave of improvement

If you are already hitting D5s, I'd say you likely have a LOT to look forward to in recovery!

The absolute lowest pitch I could make pre-op was around 70hz. I had a super low voice. So easy for me to forget that! I could have easily sang Bass, and now I can do Alto.

[anjaq]

You are sounding great, Sarah. This really is amazing - and only what now 4 weeks post op? I could not even hear any parts of your video where the voice was breaking or weak anymore. And your low voice is sooooo funny. If that is the "best" you can do to make a male voice, you really made it - you cannot do a male voice anymore even if you try, that is great! If I ever get my voice fixed up well enough and still want to have VFS, I would like to show your progress videos to my voice people to show them I am not doing something stupid then

[sarahb]

If you are already hitting D5s, I'd say you likely have a LOT to look forward to in recovery!

Holy crap, I just tried doing some sweeps really gently to get an idea of the max I can go and it just kept going up and up. I can easily hit anywhere between 600-800Hz, and I even got above 1KHz at one point. Before the surgery I could get to 700Hz MAX, and that was by doing the tiniest little squeak imaginable, there was no way I could ever make it go higher than that. Now, I seem to be able to pass that up easily. Of course, none of that upper range is really usable yet. I don't want to try too hard, so I'm not putting much power into it, but so far it looks like you're right about what I may have to look forward to I can't wait now until 2 months when I can start the vocal exercises and really test out my vocal range.

You are sounding great, Sarah. This really is amazing - and only what now 4 weeks post op? I could not even hear any parts of your video where the voice was breaking or weak anymore. And your low voice is sooooo funny. If that is the "best" you can do to make a male voice, you really made it - you cannot do a male voice anymore even if you try, that is great! If I ever get my voice fixed up well enough and still want to have VFS, I would like to show your progress videos to my voice people to show them I am not doing something stupid then

Thanks Anja! I'm actually coming up on 7 weeks post-op on Monday, so I'm getting close to being able to really start using my voice in all situations. That's not until January 11th though.

Haha, yeah, it's pretty silly when I try to get down to the lower frequencies again. It brings a lot of comfort knowing that even if I wanted to I couldn't easily talk in the male range.

[Jennygirl]

Like I said Sarah, I've always thought you will have one of if not the best result from Yeson yet!

My vocal cords were rather large and bulky, even for a male. After surgery they are within a female length, but still probably a bit bulkier than average.

For you, likely having an average sized vocal cord length/thickness, I would imagine your high end pitch capability will far surpass mine!

So, if you are already sweeping smoothly up past 1khz, you shouldn't have any issues singing soprano

Me on the other hand, it's looking like I'm an Alto. Maybe we can sing a duet together someday

[sarahb]

Like I said Sarah, I've always thought you will have one of if not the best result from Yeson yet!

My vocal cords were rather large and bulky, even for a male. After surgery they are within a female length, but still probably a bit bulkier than average.

For you, likely having an average sized vocal cord length/thickness, I would imagine your high end pitch capability will far surpass mine!

So, if you are already sweeping smoothly up past 1khz, you shouldn't have any issues singing soprano

Me on the other hand, it's looking like I'm an Alto. Maybe we can sing a duet together someday

Interestingly, Dr. Kim said that my vocal cords are actually shorter than normal during the first consultation, so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I'm not sure about the thickness, but I would assume they are not overly thick for their size either. It's interesting what you find out in the process of getting VFS.

I'm not sure how much of that top range will ever be usable, especially singing, since I've never been a singer by any stretch of the imagination and probably don't have the vocal control and ear to be able to hit the right notes and then hold them. However, it's fun to think that I may be able to at least hit the higher notes in passing.

And I'd totally be up for trying a duet at some point, lol. I'm sure you can teach me a lot about singing and voice control. Technically, you already have with all your follow-up posts throughout your own recovery.

[Jennygirl]

I imagine you will find the middle upper range very useful when you are trying to talk loudly or laughing, etc. And yeah now I seem to remember you saying that he had told you that yours were shorter.

Lucky duck! I would love to get back to my soprano days when I was 10 years old But, everyone seems to love my voice as is and apparently it suits me extremely well. Sometimes it sounds a bit low to me (when talking to people that I've known for a long time) but I've been assured and reassured probably a hundred times that it sounds great and fully female in all scenarios.

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Jenny and Sarah,

I think it's time to say thank you to you both for the pioneering work you did in blazing a trail to the important resource Yeson is indeed turning out to be, and for sharing your vocal progress with us, as inspiration and encouragement.

It's crazy, I know mid-April is still a ways to go, but all these Korean resources are piling up on my desk already: a Seoul travel guide, a Korean cookbook (some delicious stuff, but some of it is devilishly hot, so to be avoided right after surgery), maps etc. I'm so looking forward to this! At the moment, I'm doing the backing tracks for my pre-surgery singing clips (the same song, in C for masculine voice, in F for the "low feminized version" and in G for the "elevated feminized version"). Plus recordings of my speaking voice. I really want to document this well, in order to create a frame of reference for future musician patients.

And I'm really happy that both of your voices are coming along so well. Jenny, I wouldn't worry at all about the pitch of your voice. It sounds 120% fine, fabulous and female :-) Actually, I'd find the low end of the female range quite an attractive spot to end up in.

So, enough said, time to get going and start my day!

Amy

[anjaq]

Holy crap, I just tried doing some sweeps really gently to get an idea of the max I can go and it just kept going up and up. I can easily hit anywhere between 600-800Hz, and I even got above 1KHz at one point. Before the surgery I could get to 700Hz MAX

Wow, that is amazing considering a common saying is that vocal range decreases with surgery. Right now I can hit 760 Hz, anything above 800 or 900 is really hard to do for me, though in voice therapy one time she made me go up there - I cannot help but wonder what would happen if I would be as lucky as you - destroy glasses with singing LOL - Nah, I think not. My vocal chords are more like Jennys I guess - rather long and bulky, judging from my "original" F0 of 100 Hz. From what I got from Amys comments though, the upper range seems to depend a lot on skill or using some techniques, often unvoluntary?

Thanks Anja! I'm actually coming up on 7 weeks post-op on Monday, so I'm getting close to being able to really start using my voice in all situations. That's not until January 11th though.

Oh ok, so roughly 4 weeks after you started speaking again - I think I may have mixed that up. Its 7 weeks already? Geez, feels like it was yesterday

Haha, yeah, it's pretty silly when I try to get down to the lower frequencies again. It brings a lot of comfort knowing that even if I wanted to I couldn't easily talk in the male range.

Totally! Did you notice any differences already with resonance control and such? I remember we talked about that - I know for myself I can go low in pitch to something like 120 Hz now and it does not really sound totally male, but I can somehow deliberately "drop" my voice below that and then I get to 100Hz but with a male resonance - very uncomfortable and scary. Are you doing something actively with resonance control now?

I think it's time to say thank you to you both for the pioneering work you did in blazing a trail to the important resource Yeson is indeed turning out to be, and for sharing your vocal progress with us, as inspiration and encouragement.

Indeed! - They both and Abby as well made me cry a couple of times - so it is safe to say you are an inspiration indeed

At the moment, I'm doing the backing tracks for my pre-surgery singing clips (the same song, in C for masculine voice, in F for the "low feminized version" and in G for the "elevated feminized version"). Plus recordings of my speaking voice. I really want to document this well, in order to create a frame of reference for future musician patients.

Very neat - so we will get a real great frame of reference comparing before and after voices from you, that is soooo neat

Actually, I'd find the low end of the female range quite an attractive spot to end up in.

Yeah, I think I would love that end as well - my voice therapist said that my preferred pitch when I am allowed to make any sound at will is apparently about 200 Hz though, so that is not quite the low end - apparently it is also the pitch at which my vocal chords loose much of their tremor and assymetry that Dr kim was concerned about in terms of preventing me from getting a good result with him if I would go. Weird, isn't it? Call me crazy but it feels like this is the pitch my brain expects from my body if it was not altered by testosterone poisoning (hehe: funny link).
Sadly however I did not get a reply to my last email to Yesons after they sent me that devastating letter last time. I replied and asked them a few things about how I can fix the voice issues I have, if the success rate would be better if I did manage to fix them, I also explained explicitely that I am having issues with transsexuality as they somehow assumed I am a women without transsexual background before (I did not write "hello I am a transgeder woman and looking for surgery" but just as I see myself as a woman with a low pitched voice). But sadly no reply at all for almost 2 weeks now .

Oh and I swear - if I get this link sent to me one more time by people I am talking about having voice issues in the german language groups I am participating in, I am going to scream:
They keep sending me this because there is this actress in Germany who has this immensely deep voice but still sounds female - as an example that pitch is not important and that I rather should work on other parts of my voice etc... I dont know, I think few people can pull off a voice like she does...and even much fewer transgender people.

Greetings
Anja

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Anja,

From what I got from Amys comments though, the upper range seems to depend a lot on skill or using some techniques, often unvoluntary?-

Yeah, the voice is like any old wind instrument in that regard: the bottom end is a matter of construction, the top end depends on the skills of the player/singer.

Sadly however I did not get a reply to my last email to Yesons after they sent me that devastating letter last time.

See my PM for a potential cultural reason for that. If we had discussed it here before you sent it, I might have had a chance of warning you. Still, it's quite a harsh – and unjustified – measure on their part to just end the conversation entirely.

They keep sending me this because there is this actress in Germany who has this immensely deep voice but still sounds female - as an example that pitch is not important and that I rather should work on other parts of my voice etc... I dont know, I think few people can pull off a voice like she does...and even much fewer transgender people.

She can pull it off because all of her other gender cues are in line: all physical aspects, all presentation aspects, and speech patterns such as choice of words and melody. I wouldn't say resonance, as her resonance sounds mostly male to me, and I'd surely misgender her just hearing her voice read a neutral text. But considering that us trans ladies have at least some other physical aspects outside of the female norm, we have no chance at pulling off such a voice. Masculine gender cues are cumulative: you can get away with maybe one or two, but if there's any more, society will pigeonhole you as trans.

Love,

Amy

[anjaq]

See my PM for a potential cultural reason for that. If we had discussed it here before you sent it, I might have had a chance of warning you. Still, it's quite a harsh – and unjustified – measure on their part to just end the conversation entirely.

Yes. I guess if I ever want to go there, I will need to find some neat trick - maybe get my second name listed first on the passport and credit card or something. I dunno. Or I just screwed it up.  - Or they just forgot about me. Argh - i dunno. I feel like I just screwed it up, really...

She can pull it off because all of her other gender cues are in line: all physical aspects, all presentation aspects, and speech patterns such as choice of words and melody.....But considering that us trans ladies have at least some other physical aspects outside of the female norm, we have no chance at pulling off such a voice. Masculine gender cues are cumulative: you can get away with maybe one or two, but if there's any more, society will pidgeonhole you as trans.

Yes - I think her voice shows that speech patterns make a big difference as well, not just resonance and pitch which both are not that female in the video. But even just listening to her, I dont misgender her. The visual clues are of course making it certain. Though admittedly she is not very feminine, so the voice matches her overall presentation as an old lady who enjoyed one or another whiskey and some smokes

Ciao

[sarahb]

Amy, I think that's a good idea to do all those different recordings. I have a bunch of different recordings that I did pre-op and it's interesting to go through them and try to mimic them in my new range and see the difference. That's really when I'm like, "Whoa, things have definitely changed!" It's exciting that you'll be having the surgery soon too, since it'll be cool to see the perspective from someone else who knows the voice so well. April will be here before you know it.

Anja, technically it's really only been about 2 1/2 weeks since I began talking. I didn't talk at all really (only little phrases and sometimes short sentences here and there) until after 1 month post-op, around December 10th. Yeah, it's crazy that it's already been almost 7 weeks, but on the other hand for me it still feels like it's been a long time and will still be a long time until I fully regain my range and power. Each week it gets better, but I'm distinctly aware of my limited power right now whenever I am in a noisy area. I just can't get my voice to go above a certain dB, and I am certainly not trying to until I'm at least past the 2 month mark.

Sorry to hear that Yeson hasn't responded to your last email. It may just be the whole holiday season and everything, as they may be taking a long holiday or something. I would fully expect them to respond soon after the new year. If not then maybe your email got lost or sent to the spam folder or something.

As for resonance, I don't even notice having to control it that much. Maybe that's because I already have so many years of resonance control under my belt, or maybe it's because I don't have to try so hard anymore to get the right resonance to make the voice sound good.

[Jennygirl]

I don't think about resonance at all, either.

Sometimes I still notice my voice gets tired... Like today my voice started to feel less dynamic (upward pitch movement being harder to reach) after all the nonstop talking I've been doing around loud relatives for extended periods of time. I get a little self conscious when that happens, and then I remind myself of how that used to happen even after the quiet conversations. I think there is a reason they say it's a 12 month recovery... It totally is.

Either way, I've been receiving nothing but compliments on my voice even though it is probably closer to the 185-190hz range around my relatives. Everyone seems to love it and is really proud of how well I am able to pass... My voice being a massive part of that!

[Jennygirl]

Also, I've been doing a lot more singing... And it makes me so happy to sing the female parts now!!! I still have trouble reaching above C5 unless I'm by myself but I know it's just a confidence and practice thing. Either way, its really nice to not even be able to sing the low notes at all even if I try.

[Azahara]

Wow, thank you to all the awesome women who have shared there VFS with Yeson experiences...it's truly inspirational and makes me want to save up and go for it myself!

Sarah, you look and sound terrific.  I can't believe how much of a difference VFS can make.  *jealous* jeje

and Jenny, I found your videos on youtube and just wanted to thank you for posting them.  You are one of many ladies I look up to who have gone through transition and come out successful.

[sarahb]

Thanks Azahara I agree, the effect of VFS can be very dramatic.

[Bobbi]

Thank you to all the ladies who've shared their experiences!  I've been following this thread for the last 4 months since returning from Chonburi. 

Sarah - thank you so much for all the wonderful & informative results you've shared - your results are amazing & your voice is so beautiful!

I've been working with my voice coach for the past 2 years on & off.  I am comfortable with my voice, but I do quickly get tired maintaining the resonance & pitch that I really like to hear, but I am comfortable with the other elements of my voice/persona.  I'm considering VFS for that & because I really miss singing.  But I am concerned with the risks of VFS.

I wanted to ask for inputs regarding Dr. Thomas in Portland, Or for VFS - especially compared to Dr. Kim at Yeson.  What caused you to select Yeson for VFS?

Thanks so much for any inputs & advice!  This is my 1st post  ;-))

Love & hugs,
Bobbi

[LizMarie]

Bobbi, I cannot speak for the women who have already been to Yeson and I've not yet done so myself. However, the statistical outcomes from Yeson are extremely high with very high satisfaction rates from the patients. And as we have all learned here from all these brave ladies posting samples, the quality has been amazing.

On the other hand, Dr. Thomas, who I also was looking at, uses an invasive procedure versus the Yeson endoscopic procedure, has a lower satisfaction rate than Yeson, and has some outcomes that are worse than when the patient began. That's not a lot but it is a worry. Yeson seems to never make things any worse than they were and almost always makes things better.

When looking at the two procedures, since, for me, mastering suppression of male resonance was pretty easy but pitch is much harder, Yeson makes more sense to me for all the above reasons.