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Where are you on the transgender spectrum?

Started by Debtv, November 19, 2005, 08:32:13 PM

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Leigh

I agree with parts of what everyone has posted and not all that any one person has.

I feel the the HBSOC has gone overboard in their efforts to be inclusive as to who is or could be treated (or not) as a transexual.

Non op---If there is a valid medical reason why someone could not do hrt and/or surgery then I can understand why they should be included as TS.  I cannot accept any other reason.  If you can do hrt and surgery but choose not to then in my view they are simply a full time cross dresser which is not in any way a put down to those who are upfront about being a cd.

pre-op--If a person lives full time, does hrt, and whose goal is surgey then yes they too are or should be considered transexual.  If the same person stops before surgery and wants to retain the male genetalia for what ever reason, they are neither male nor female in my view.  The simple definition of transition is moving from one point to another, not stopping in the middle unless that middle point was the destination that they had in mind all the time.

post op--Just because a person lives full time, did hrt and sugery does not mean that they have transitioned, just that they have altered their physical being and presentation to female.  Only when a person lives, works, socializes, and is accepted   has that person transitioned from male bodied to female to woman.

Remember the ducks.

Controversial-yes.  Did I cover every possible combination-not hardly.  We all have the right to define ourselves as long as that definition does not include others who may have a different view.

Leigh
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stephanie_craxford

 :D I'll just stick with the term Woman.  Yep it's an umberala term but after all it's who I am and it's one that I'm most comfortable with, and it's easy enough to understand. :D

Steph
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DawnL

Quote from: melissa_girl on December 18, 2005, 02:18:17 PM
From my understanding, it sounds like TS is more of a general term for either pre-op, post-op on non-op.  Perhaps a person hasn't decided which category they fall under yet and that would make them just TS.

No, TS (transsexual) is intended as specific term as defined in my previous post.  It is further broken into two groups, pre-op (a TS in transition who has not had SRS) and post-op (a TS in transition who has had SRS).  People don't decide what category they fall under, that is determined by their actions--they've had surgery or they haven't.  It's generally accepted that there must be a strong desire for surgery so non-ops can't really be considered  transsexuals.  These people say surgery isn't necessary to define one's self as a woman and it is these same people who may be a threat to future medical coverage for SRS.  Since those people can get by without surgery, the logic will go, no one really needs surgery.  Except for a medical reason, if you chose to be non-op I think you should be considered TG and not TS.  As far as being "just TS", if you're TS, you're aiming for surgery just as you're compelled to transition.  You don't decide, it's pre-ordained.

Dawn
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DawnL

Quote from: melissa_girl on December 18, 2005, 03:13:36 PM
Dawn, does that mean pre-op TS is the same thing as "just TS"?

Well "just TS" can have several meanings as in "she's just a shade over that 'ol TS line, barely squeeky out of that TG group" OR "just TS" can be dismissive as in "she's just TS and not worth another thought" OR "just TS" can oversimplify in suggesting pre-op or post-op don't have any real meaning. 

As to the first, there are shades of everything so there are people who are "just TS" and a shade past TG, whatever that means, but that isn't the same thing as pre-op given that pre-ops are still intending surgery.  Given that pre-ops and post-ops exist, the TS spectrum can't be reduced past that.  I'm sure you didn't intend any dismissive meaning.  Did that answer your question or just sound hopelessly confusing?  :icon_confused:
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Terri-Gene

Dawn, Like I mentioned in the prior post to cassie.  I am in agreement with her, you and so on about what a TS is.  It is a male or female bodied person who seeks and desires to live full time in female or male mind and body.  I was very well known for that opinion for years here.  I have no problem with that definition.

The problem I have with this truth in such conversations these days is that all such conversations led to in my experience with this site was that it cause a lot of heat, frustration and further arguments on this site.  As a matter of fact, I myself was permanantly banned for around a year and a half from this site because of all the trouble I caused with some of my statements on this matter.  These days, the site is heavily visited by TS's were as then it was mostly CD's and so now is more easy to make such statements and not disrupt the flow of the site and occassionally people do it.

Point being is that this is a support site, and although I myself am in total disagreement with persons calling themselves woman when all they are is a male in a dress but don't like to be called that, so I believe that if someone has an opinion then yes, it should be stated and talked about, but it should not be discussed in such a way as to belittle or take down those who do not take the TRUE TS desire and need.  TS's are so totally different from TG types but we are simply gpomg tp have to grin and bear that fact or find a site that is totally for TS and tell anyone who is not they can't join.  I can remember off susans discussions about such a thing often enough, but there is no way we can prove TS or not in this kind of environment so how to do it?.

I simply wish we could not publically discuss such issues here in public because there are people here who have thier own needs which I or others don't understand and don't visit or hang out with in public.  There is always PM or IM/email for such things.  Meanwhile in public, we can state our views and not create emotional problems for others we can not help or identify with.

MELISSA:  Don't even worry about Pre-op aand TS differences.  I think we have established that most TS's hold the belief that it is all one and the same, a person wishing and willing to have HRT and SRS to become Women and to live as women and only as women for the rest of thier lives.  If you are able to go into and complete the necessary cycle to do this, be happy for your own work to do so and consider whatever you like about those who don't fit into your own desires.

And I mean that to everybody

Terri
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Andre

 

gender play<........................cd..tv.........................>ts. :D(here)....>Post-


op ts...............man

                                                                                                               
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Jessica

QuoteIt's generally accepted that there must be a strong desire for surgery so non-ops can't really be considered transsexuals.

I have stared at that quote for about 20 minutes trying to put into words exactly how I feel.  However, whatever I have to say on the subject makes me sound crazy.

So, after 20 minutes, and a thousand thoughts, I will just say that I think I disagree.

Jessica
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Dennis

I agree with the disagreement. Many FtM's choose not to have bottom surgery at all because of the expensive, imperfect options available. Some also choose not to have top surgery, perhaps because they don't need it, being flat-chested anyway, or because of expense, or other personal reasons. They're still TS by any reasonable definition.

Dennis
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Sarah Louise

I like the number 1 quote from the HBSOC that Melissa put in her message.

I always have trouble with people getting so caught up in Terms.

Sarah L.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Teri Anne

For me, how the transgender spectrum looked, depended on where I was:

Before hearing there was such a thing as transsexualism, it looked like this:

man<...................................................................................................................>woman
                                                moi

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Beginning transition, the transgender spectrum looked like this to me:

man<...............gender play<..................cd..tv...............>ts......Post-op ts...............>woman
                                                                             moi

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, after SRS, to me it looks kind of like this:

.......................................................man<...>woman.......................................................
                                                                      moi
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
   
Maurice Chevalier always said, "Vive le difference."  I've just become suspicious that, today, the genders are a lot closer than
society imagines.  And getting closer each day. Vive la liberte!
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Leigh

Dennis: I posted this

QuoteIf there is a valid medical reason why someone could not do hrt and/or surgery 

My apologies to the men.  In no way did I ever intend to include you.

The surgery is absolutely over priced, appearence and function are just not where surgery is for women.  I understand why only top surgery and a hysterectomey are done in most cases.

When I was going for surgery two friends gave me $500 in case I ran short of cash overseas.  When I tried to return it I was told to pay it forward, the next person I knew who truly needed help was to get it.  A man that I know (I had no idea until his partner told me) was trying to raise money for top surgery by having yard sales and doing benefits.  He got it with the same instructions, pay it forward.

Leigh


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Dennis

Yes, I suppose we could amend it so that if surgery was available and functional, would you do it. I would, in a heartbeat. I still haven't decided against the imperfect options.

I must say, the balance works out well. It would be nice if all of us could have all of what we want, but at least there's not one side that clearly does better in transition than the other. FtM's pass more easily, sooner. MtF's have way better surgical options for a complete transition.

Dennis
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kgh91

I am a boy. But, sometimes I wish I could be a girl still acting like a boy and liking girls. So I wanna be a lesbian. If I do this, I could be a good swimwear model.
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HelenW

Where am I on the gender spectrum?

Dunno, still movin' - but definitely movin' - I don't think I've landed yet .  .   .    .     .

Hey, kgh91, I'm glad you found us and decided to post.  We encourage people to tell us about themselves in the Introductions forum https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?board=8.0 so we can get to know them a little better, as long as they feel comfortable about it.  Even if you don't, you're welcome to keep reading and learning about this stuff.  I did for a long time and it's really helped me figure things out.  The other parts of the site (Links, library, Wiki, etc) are full of good things too.  I'll be looking forward to reading more about you soon.

helen
FKA: Emelye

Pronouns: she/her

My rarely updated blog: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com

Southwestern New York trans support: http://www.southerntiertrans.org/
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tinkerbell



unhappy person------------------------------ts----------post op
                                                                             ^
                                                                             me
                                                                         (almost there ;))

tinkerbell     
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Jillieann Rose

I need to revise my answer too Deb.
This is what I said in November.
QuoteHi Deb,
I'm too sure yet. But I've growing longer fingernails and hair.
Also I'm continually removing most of my (ugly) body hair, even if I'm not dressing up.
I often find myself daydreaming about being physically female.
I guess I'm close too
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
                                               ^

Now I'd say I'm over here
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
                                                                       ^
What a differents a few months makes.
I'm not really changing just finding out who I am.
Who knows what another few months will reveal.

[/i]Life IS a journey.[/i]
:)
Jillieann
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tinkerbell

Quote from: Jillieann on June 22, 2006, 08:38:26 PM
I need to revise my answer too Deb.
This is what I said in November.                                         
Now I'd say I'm over here
genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
                                                                       ^
What a differents a few months makes.
I'm not really changing just finding out who I am.
Who knows what another few months will reveal.

[/i]Life IS a journey.[/i]
:)
Jillieann


Hi Jillieann: 
I'm so very happy for you. Because of your words, I can only say that you're flourishing into this beautiful creature whose name is JILLIEANN!!! :eusa_clap:

tinkerbell
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TheBattler

OK

I have just told you all I am afraid and if I had to sum it up this thread is why I am worried. This is where I think I am now.

genderplay>........................<cd/tv>....................>ts
                                                             ^

:( :( :(

Alice


PS I hope I am wrong
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TheBattler

yes- I am totaly confused.

I hope another chart explains it  ;).


Alice
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Julie Marie

gender play<........................cd............................tg.........................>ts.....>Post-op ts
                                                                                          ^
                                                                                          me
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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