"You're not just going to wake up one day as a girl"

[KabitTarah]

You're not alone w/ the bullying!! I was bullied extensively throughout grade school and high school. I believe my very poor personal memory (that's only starting to come back) is because I had to repress so much of that. I also account for not having come fully out of the closet in High School (a fairly open and accepting group was available for that) because I had to hide my gender problems or certainly get bullied for it. I learned early on that being transgender or even just having feminine qualities (which is certainly part of why I was originally bullied) was very dangerous.

I wish I could remember more... especially early on when my best friends were girls and got bullied for that and for not liking boy activities... I'm sure it was at that point that I changed (as much as I could) from a young transgender girl into a man... but I have no idea how deep it went.

[Violet Bloom]

I am very intrigued by this notion of male simulation because it fits my experience.

By my geek nature I think that I have been run a Male operating system on top of a female
hardware (the brain).

Of course it is different, and you are right, you won't have the same performance and the
host (the female self) is not visible.

---

The simulation can be pretty perfect, though. Probably my "intelligence" (I don't want to
flatter myself, but I think that I am "gifted" in this regard, probably because I am
a total failure in social contacts) has ruined me because it has allowed a fairly decent simulation
(almost in real time) of a male facade.

But all the simulations, eventually, show their nature. 

But is it possible to "undo" a simulation? That is another great problem, but
I think that uninstalling the male simulation is the hardest part in transition.

Transition is from M to F, but to reach F you have first to delete the M.

Agreed, and I'll be starting my Apple injections and Microsoft suppressors shortly.  My ports will also need reconfiguring...

[KabitTarah]

Agreed, and I'll be starting my Apple injections and Microsoft suppressors shortly.  My ports will also need reconfiguring...

Oh crap... I forgot a girl can't have an Android phone. What am I going to do?!

[anjaq]

By my geek nature I think that I have been run a Male operating system on top of a female hardware (the brain).
[...]
But is it possible to "undo" a simulation? That is another great problem, but
I think that uninstalling the male simulation is the hardest part in transition.

Transition is from M to F, but to reach F you have first to delete the M.

Yes exactly - I dont want to overstretch that analogy but I think it is a useful one. Stopping the simulation seems to be possible but not without creating some trouble, as the system underlying this has to fill in with new processes to fulfil the same functions. Those may cost less effort as they can then be run on the proper hardware, but they need to be loaded. So the M has to be deleted, the simulation stopped and then there is a certain gap in which some functions do not work properly at all until the functions are restored. Now to stretch this a bit further I would say that the operating system is actually F and matches the hardware which is F (otherwise it would not work at all), but there is that M simulation running on that operating system which prodeces quite a high load. If the simulation is ended, those ressources are freed and the F operating system can load the processes that normally would have been loaded if there was no simulation. That takes not much time but the main problem with that is that all the settings are on default, so they have to run a setup first.

Hehe - this is very technical. So in more human terms, this would be that the male simulation can and has to be stopped and then the female personality can use that capacity to take over but while it has all the capabilities already, it has to learn how to use them. Which is why sometimes we feel like 12 year olds when transitioning

The part form A on the age difference is interesting as well. I guess the analogy in that case would be that some of the results of the simulation are already put into the operating system processes - so some things learned while simulating M are not gendered and thus work as well outside the simulation. But while I agree that for the younger ones like me it may be more like starting from scratch (it was for me), for the older ones there is at least some part that dies the same. I hear this a lot that people describe their personality as being reborn in a way and expressing teenage feelings and behaviours and identity which is what I would have described as the incompletely configured F operating system taking over the functions of the stopped M simulation?

I also think that for some, running the simulation is easier than for others. Which may be why some at 5 simply state they ARE girls, some transition at a young age, others manage to keep it going until later.

I also agree with the statement that it takes a long time to really get into the flow in terms of body and mind. Looking back I think I developed still a lot years after I started transitioning especially in social terms and I still have a lot to learn even now. The comparison to transitioning being essentially puberty #2 is quite good. And any girl at age 12 has so much to learn and so much to develop in her body until she is a grown up woman. Why would it take us only a few months, just because most of our body is already grown up


I think the best was to stop the simulation and to delete the M stoic thing is to make the decision to do so. And make sure you hit that "OK" button on the "too large for the trashcan, do you really want to delete this permanently" button, otherwise it wont work - its a leap of faith, you have to trust that once this is gone and deleted, there are plenty of parts of you that will take over and that are even better at doing this and you have to trust that they will fit you in transition. All those behaviours that as a male would have looked wrong and thus had to be simulated are now valid. But for them to be valid, one has to transition and be "out", so that people will not again make you feel awkward at using them. A lot of it really comes down to trusting your female personality to take over and to open up your presentation to the outside so that you can allow yourself to express that personality. And having that trust you can then "delete" the stoic persona permanently and be yourself. It has to be permanent delete though, otherwise the female personality that is underneath it cannot grow to its potential - you have to basically make sure that you cannot fall back into the simulation.

This all probably sounds totally confusing - but maybe you get it, LTL

[KabitTarah]

This all probably sounds totally confusing - but maybe you get it, LTL

I thought it was awesome
I did my thesis on M&S, though...

And it's quite true, for many of us anyway. We were running a simulation of being our assigned gender for so long... and eventually there was a variable unaccounted for. The only difference is the fidelity of the simulator. In our case... reality beat out whatever program we were running in our head... and the simulation came to a grinding halt.

I consider myself 100% female now... I just don't much like it, yet... but yes - there's a lot to learn. That doesn't mean I'm going to make decisions a 5 year old would make (I do love Disney Jr... but it's not going on my bed spread)... but the way we start to think is a big mix of tween and adult.

[Marina mtf]

Thank you for expanding my idea, there is a lot food for thought in that analogy.

Deleting the male means to have faith that the male was never there. I think that
many TS go into suicidal thoughts because they think that the male is REAL so they
think that the only way to escape the simulation is to KILL the shell.

But this is not real. To escape the matrix of the male simulation you have simply to
go out, full time. NOW. Not passing, not ready are false problems.

Just choose a D-day and then never go back. No remorse, no repent (as in the Metallica song).

Passing will come AFTER, you are not going to wake up as a girl.

You have to JUMP that cliff, delete the male which was never real and exit the male matrix.

Young TS are in a sense luckier because the male simulation has run for less time and
has done less permanent damage, but they are also prone to THINK that all this stuff
is real, because they are young and maybe there is the doubt that, with time, with
the proper "service packs" the male O.S. will run better.

But the only solution (for me) is a HARD transition from 0 to 100% and no turning back.

[KabitTarah]

Thank you for expanding my idea, there is a lot food for thought in that analogy.

Deleting the male means to have faith that the male was never there. I think that
many TS go into suicidal thoughts because they think that the male is REAL so they
think that the only way to escape the simulation is to KILL the shell.

But this is not real. To escape the matrix of the male simulation you have simply to
go out, full time. NOW. Not passing, not ready are false problems.

Just choose a D-day and then never go back. No remorse, no repent (as in the Metallica song).

Passing will come AFTER, you are not going to wake up as a girl.

You have to JUMP that cliff, delete the male which was never real and exit the male matrix.

Young TS are in a sense luckier because the male simulation has run for less time and
has done less permanent damage, but they are also prone to THINK that all this stuff
is real, because they are young and maybe there is the doubt that, with time, with
the proper "service packs" the male O.S. will run better.

But the only solution (for me) is a HARD transition from 0 to 100% and no turning back.

What? You don't initialize your variables first? What about safe clean-up of the previous running sim?

I'd think of it more as I'm cleaning up the simulator in an attempt to get to reality. I'm not a simulation anymore. I'm not attempting to emulate something I'm not... except as a transitional point (i.e. work, slow changes for family, etc). Take it slow and ensure that no spurious processes remain from the old sim.

I agree that it's psychologically easier for us later in life... that's a trade off. If I'd switched in puberty it would have been difficult in my head (no 20+ years experience of dealing with adult life at that point). At the same time... it would be easier socially (than as an adult of that time) and physiologically (still in puberty).

IMO, puberty's the transgender problem. To go back to the analogy - we're running a Female Core Processor (FCP)- maybe we don't realize it at the time, but we are... then we start fueling the FCP with high Male Testosterone Energy (MTE)... which is only compatible with a MCP. After puberty, the MTE is still there, but goes down to more tolerable levels... and our FCP adapts to use that energy. It's not optimal... and it generates a lot of psychological pollutants, but it works for a while. Some people have a very strong FCP, that rejects the MTE completely - they come out earlier. Others of us have a FCP that isn't so picky about its energy source.

In any case... once we switch over to the Female Estrogen Energy (FEE) source the FCP runs more smoothly... like a purring engine (or kitty, or whatever ).

I like the analogy... it's oddly easier for me to understand than all this biology and psychology talk. Yes, I'm an engineer...

[Marina mtf]

Yes, it makes sense.

I may think also the contrary...

the MORE you are FEMININE the LATER you transition.

But this is not a judgment, just another opinion... you are saying that

Some people have a very strong FCP, that rejects the MTE completely - they come out earlier. Others of us have a FCP that isn't so picky about its energy source.

but I also may say that a strong FCP is WEAK, because one of the main characteristics
of female energy is acceptance. So it accepts the foreign energy, it is submitted

[anjaq]

Haha, kabit, I think you changed analogy here to that of an engine and fuel. Works well too

I also like that parts from MATRIX, tmarina. The "red pill" thing (thinking of it the first E tablets I got were actually reddish ). I can imagine that this partakes in the suicides - thinking the male simulation is real and thinking of how shallow and hollow this is and that this is not really a person worth living. Stepping over that line and not looking back (for a while) is IMO really a key issue. It does not have to be connected to going fulltime, but it means to leave situations that demand the male simulator behind. I guess for some it works to shut down the simulator more gracefully - deactivate parts, free the memory, fill in with the nonsimulated code. But thats quite tedious and hard to do and I think one can make a lot of mistakes, forget parts of it or tend to keep parts as a backup (which still take up capacity). Maybe some code from the simulator gets into the new code. I am not sure. For me personally I think the way to shut it down and leave it to the OS to clean out the memory and overwrite the abandoned code fragments was the way to go. And no backups. No way back. Who would want to go back to the simulation anyways. Of course if I would have found that after stopping the simulator what comes up is not a female OS really, I might have detransitioned - that option still is open when one drops the simulator, so it is not a commitment to transition. But if the OS is female, it is the first step to transition on the outside as well. Mind you all of this is going on inside of us, the outside at this stage is just the place we choose to be, preferrably one that does not require parts that are to be deleted. In that sense being "out" or even fulltime at that stage may be a good idea.

[KabitTarah]

Yeah... though I was thinking more in terms of computer processors and the like... though with fuel and energy - the engine analogy works well too.

I agree w/ both of you. I have to take it slow... but in terms of what's inside I feel fully transitioned. I'd be happy to be fully out (though probably not happy with it once I was - as I am). I swear Facebook is going to make people guess. Still... it's a long process and I don't even get that red pill for >6 months. I'm shooting for May... get the less physical changes done over the summer and head into fall & winter for some of the more drastic stuff... which means it won't work out that way for me (I'll either change fast or we'll have a record warm fall / winter).

Hopefully this diversion was useful to LTL... I always feel bad about derailing (or helping derail) a thread - and I can't help but do it anyway! Sorry!!

[Gina_Z]

Thank you for expanding my idea, there is a lot food for thought in that analogy.

Deleting the male means to have faith that the male was never there. I think that
many TS go into suicidal thoughts because they think that the male is REAL so they
think that the only way to escape the simulation is to KILL the shell.

But this is not real. To escape the matrix of the male simulation you have simply to
go out, full time. NOW. Not passing, not ready are false problems.

Just choose a D-day and then never go back. No remorse, no repent (as in the Metallica song).

Passing will come AFTER, you are not going to wake up as a girl.

You have to JUMP that cliff, delete the male which was never real and exit the male matrix.

Young TS are in a sense luckier because the male simulation has run for less time and
has done less permanent damage, but they are also prone to THINK that all this stuff
is real, because they are young and maybe there is the doubt that, with time, with
the proper "service packs" the male O.S. will run better.

But the only solution (for me) is a HARD transition from 0 to 100% and no turning back.

I think 'deleting the male' is a big mistake. Natural born women have some masculine characteristics. Natural born men have some feminine characteristics. That's the norm. I could be wrong but I think the idea of purging oneself of all masculinity could be a very unhealthy goal. I'm ok with my large shoulders. I've decided not to hate that masculine trait, and just emphasize my feminine traits. I've known some fine women who enjoyed working on their cars... We can be happy without going to the far extreme of the gender spectrum.

[KabitTarah]

I think 'deleting the male' is a big mistake. Natural born women have some masculine characteristics. Natural born men have some feminine characteristics. That's the norm. I could be wrong but I think the idea of purging oneself of all masculinity could be a very unhealthy goal. I'm ok with my large shoulders. I've decided not to hate that masculine trait, and just emphasize my feminine traits. I've known some fine women who enjoyed working on their cars... We can be happy without going to the far extreme of the gender spectrum.

Definitely this! It's hard to come out and finally be yourself... and not leave some of yourself behind. We do embody the years we were closeted - if not the body we were in. I fully intend to be who I was, be who I couldn't be, and combine the two into a complete woman!

[Kristal]

What? You don't initialize your variables first? What about safe clean-up of the previous running sim?

I'd think of it more as I'm cleaning up the simulator in an attempt to get to reality. I'm not a simulation anymore. I'm not attempting to emulate something I'm not... except as a transitional point (i.e. work, slow changes for family, etc). Take it slow and ensure that no spurious processes remain from the old sim.

I agree that it's psychologically easier for us later in life... that's a trade off. If I'd switched in puberty it would have been difficult in my head (no 20+ years experience of dealing with adult life at that point). At the same time... it would be easier socially (than as an adult of that time) and physiologically (still in puberty).

IMO, puberty's the transgender problem. To go back to the analogy - we're running a Female Core Processor (FCP)- maybe we don't realize it at the time, but we are... then we start fueling the FCP with high Male Testosterone Energy (MTE)... which is only compatible with a MCP. After puberty, the MTE is still there, but goes down to more tolerable levels... and our FCP adapts to use that energy. It's not optimal... and it generates a lot of psychological pollutants, but it works for a while. Some people have a very strong FCP, that rejects the MTE completely - they come out earlier. Others of us have a FCP that isn't so picky about its energy source.

In any case... once we switch over to the Female Estrogen Energy (FEE) source the FCP runs more smoothly... like a purring engine (or kitty, or whatever ).

I like the analogy... it's oddly easier for me to understand than all this biology and psychology talk. Yes, I'm an engineer...

This thread has suddenly become AMAZING. I love you guys...

[Lexi Belle]

Thank you for expanding my idea, there is a lot food for thought in that analogy.

Deleting the male means to have faith that the male was never there. I think that
many TS go into suicidal thoughts because they think that the male is REAL so they
think that the only way to escape the simulation is to KILL the shell.

But this is not real. To escape the matrix of the male simulation you have simply to
go out, full time. NOW. Not passing, not ready are false problems.

Just choose a D-day and then never go back. No remorse, no repent (as in the Metallica song).

Passing will come AFTER, you are not going to wake up as a girl.

You have to JUMP that cliff, delete the male which was never real and exit the male matrix.

Young TS are in a sense luckier because the male simulation has run for less time and
has done less permanent damage, but they are also prone to THINK that all this stuff
is real, because they are young and maybe there is the doubt that, with time, with
the proper "service packs" the male O.S. will run better.

But the only solution (for me) is a HARD transition from 0 to 100% and no turning back.

I don't think there is one person here who doesn't want to do that, I'd absolutely love to do that.  But for some of us with family and friends, it's really more practical to consider their comfort.  My mother has seen me as her boy, my family thought I was gay, but enver did it occur that I'd feel like a girl.  So, having recently told her about 5 months ago, I think it's much more practical for me to take it slow, otherwise it'll arise fear in the people who've grown to know me.  Not only that but it gives people adjusting time in general. 
0-100% is practical for people who have nothing to lose, but you've got to consider other people have very serious variables that can greatly impair the effectiveness of a quick nudge.

Edit: I also thought this was appropriate. c:
http://youtu.be/40fY6_H1sas?t=4m35s

[anjaq]

I think 'deleting the male' is a big mistake. Natural born women have some masculine characteristics.

To clarify - this is NOT what I meant and I think the others did neither.
It is not about "deleting the male". It is about deleting the stoic simulation of a male that we thought or claimed was a personality. There is a huge difference. I dropped that "fake" male persona, the simulation with the start of transition. Basically it consisted of me walking around with a stoic face all the time, speaking almost nothing, pretending to be a guy. It was quite a hollow presentation, but it fooled everyone for a while, in part because I was kind of mystic as I did not say much and people thought there must be more going on inside (which it was, but not what they expected).

So that had to go. But that does not mean to drop all things male and never pick them up again. Its just about the simulated persona that has to be deleted. Not any male traits that you have despite that, just only keeping the ones that are part of your true persona. I personally for example like to do a lot of "masculine" things - doing woodworking, constructing stuff in the house and garden, blacksmithing, ... - but these are parts of my female personality, not of the simulation. I hope this is getting clear...

[Gina_Z]

'...The male was never there...' ? That sounds very black and white for me. Life has a lot of gray areas. My experience isn't so well defined. 'Deleting the male' is a lot different from saying 'deleting the stoic simulation of the male'.  Life is complex. Gender is complex.

[KabitTarah]

I think you're both saying the same thing in different ways!
♥

[Gina_Z]

I do not want to ruffle feathers so I am sneaking out the back door now.

[Marina mtf]

I will give also my opinion about "deleting the male" to clarify my thought
(I don't want to troll, just to expose my POV).

Deleting the male means to stop pretending that you are a male... just that.

Then you can repair that flat tire yourself, do some DIY at home, go fish, but with
another "self", your true self which does not need to "demonstrate" maleness anymore.

I went to the FTM section and they have a "You look badass" thread, full of pictures
of men who like to show muscles, their flat chests, etc...

That's exactly the thing which I was NEVER ABLE to simulate, to be a "badass", just because
I was not a male and the simulation failed (BSOD every time, go home, self-pity, denial, restart
male simulation with another patch which crashed next time).

They (those FTMs) CAN be badass because they are NOT girls, even with female bodies.

There are some pictures of t-boys there that look real badass even with their hands covering
their chest, because they have not had yet surgery. Body is not so important, mind is.

For their part they CANNOT simulate the female, they won't post on "You look faboulos darling" thread,
even if they COULD (with the proper hardware).

It would be funny, just to test it, to have a "you look badass" thread HERE and "you look faboluos" thread THERE, where, only for testing purposes, a MTF tries to make the most manly picture she can, and there a FTM tries to make the most feminine picture of himself.

That would hurt (for me putting on male clothes does hurt now) but it would be for science and a sacrifice could be done. I suppose that in those threads we will see the BSOD of the simulation, the fact that the simulation fails to embody fully the "energy" inside: the "badass energy" or the "fabolous energy".

Just to end my long post.

Deleting the male for me does means to STOP trying to be a badass, just be me, without trying every time to demonstrate things which are not part of me.

I suppose that for a FTM deleting the female means to STOP trying to look fabulous, stop doing "girly" things because girls are supposed to do that... also for TransMen there is the BSOD of the simulation.

Bye,
Marina

[Marina mtf]

0-100% is practical for people who have nothing to lose, but you've got to consider other people have very serious variables that can greatly impair the effectiveness of a quick nudge.

Edit: I also thought this was appropriate. c:
http://youtu.be/40fY6_H1sas?t=4m35s

I would like to clarify also this point.

It is possible to go 100% full time, at least for a MTF, WITHOUT actually coming out.

For a girl it is entirely possible to wear casual.

You can shop in the women's department and look more or less as before, just being careful
of color and accessories.

Of course if you have to work in a suit and tie that won't apply, but in free time it is
possible to be full time without too much "notice". I chose that route and for some months
I was full time but people around me did not notice, only that I was dressing a bit more
"strange".

But that helped a LOT for my GID, because I knew that I was "deleting the male" every day, little
by little.

YMMV