alpha male, submissive female

[Satinjoy]

I'll be back tomorrow on this one.

Just got intensely disappointing blood serum results.  Oh well, the needle awaits, just told my wife, she's ok with it.   Amazing.  Serums were 10x lower than what I may or may not need, at least 7x lower than any minimum goals I ever read about.  Simplifies my choices.  Waiting on an endo call now.

But on the OP side it all sounds familiar, and for the rest, it sounds familiar, and it sounds,,,, non binary normal....

As I have said several times in other threads I believe I have three centers, physical, social and spiritual.  Or Female, fluid, and the core.  No label on the fluid personality traits, none needed, but it morphs depending on threat, intimacy, company, talking to mtf's...

The centers idea simplifies things for me.  I don't know if anyone else ever uses it, I made this up based on how I typically feel and react.  From an actors training perceptive, finding truth.

Met my shrink today and asked if his diagnosis had changed.  The original really was to justify the meds, nothing else, he minimized what was on the letter, and currently, he diagnosed me as a "Satinjoy".  He diagnosed me as a spirit.  Not a dysphoria, disorder or anything else, just the best Satinjoy we could be with and explore together, to make me happy and truthful, to make my loved ones happy.  Of course he used my real name but with theater ties that has to be secret.

Sharp cookie, that one.

Will be back tomorrow, I want to read up on the thread more.

And I need someone to tell me what alpha means and some of the other acronyms I don't understand, like the three or four letter descriptions.  I haven't the faintest idea what those mean.

God Bless and Hugs and Love to all here.

[Pica Pica]

Met my shrink today and asked if his diagnosis had changed.  The original really was to justify the meds, nothing else, he minimized what was on the letter, and currently, he diagnosed me as a "Satinjoy".  He diagnosed me as a spirit.  Not a dysphoria, disorder or anything else, just the best Satinjoy we could be with and explore together, to make me happy and truthful, to make my loved ones happy.

That shrink sounds a keeper, I like him already.

As for the acronyms, I hate them with a passion.

[LordKAT]

Alpha isn't an acronym, it is the first letter of the greek alphabet and denotes superiority and/or dominance.

[peky]

I have no desire to be dominant or submissive... where does that leave me??

21st century partner-partner, emotionally intelligent, so full of grace, punt intended.. LOL

[Shantel]

Alpha is my core personality trait known specifically as Type A - Chloric, which though isn't always an endearing quality it has served me well at times in the past when a push came to a shove and I needed to assert myself or take charge of a situation. Type A people can be pretty insufferable to be around with a "my way or the highway" attitude. It's particularly nasty at times when it's testosterone driven and has some partial bearing on why I had myself neutered back in 2001. The opposite of that is a Type B personality which tends to be more laid back and even submissive to a degree, 20 years on female HRT has taken me toward a more type B personality tempering the Alpha proclivities and has made me much nicer to be around, a better listener and more emphatic toward others than previously.

[peky]

Once an alpha always an alpha, in the top or in the bottom makes no difference, baby !

[Shantel]

Once an alpha always an alpha, in the top or in the bottom makes no difference, baby !

Like I said, "A better listener and more emphatic to others!" 

And act much less passive-aggressively to others.

[Satinjoy]

But this does lead me to ask all of you, are you assigning a role to your gender?
And if you are, do they really follow the roles that society has them playing?
Or are they their own roles and you feel that they should have at least some of those roles applied to them...
Are they different sides of you? Or are they really female and male? There's a fine line there somewhere.  --- Ativan

They are components that surface as they respond to the environment, emotional needs, comfort levels.... with an internal constant core I will call spirit or soul... but they are not full binary roles, they fall short of the binary, for there is always the awareness of the other side of the rainbow colors in play.  On the physical, it is my interpretation of what I feel, aggression or passive passion remains in the "female" spectrum as does my physical self perception, but I can see through the male presentation in a heartbeat, into the eyes, into the soul, into the peace and joy of authenticity and fact, letting each component see the physical beauty of the other, and knowing it is part of the whole, the rainbow, the colors of Satinjoy, in her lightning and thunder and mist and pleasant rain and new dawns and moon and light and romance and all that is me.

It is the freedom of the non binary spirit to be, feel, fly, live, experience, with the brakes off and the head up looking for the dawn of a new day and the glory of the life to come.

They for me are components.  I have legs and arms and a mind and boobs and a necessary social beard... all components, none to be despised or rejected, a part of a puzzle that is a life to be celebrated, nurtured, valued, protected, and shared.

God bless all of you and all of your components, especially your HEARTS

Love to all here.  Cherish your God Given components and identities, they are gifts given and to be given to others.

---Satinjoy

[Nero]

Yes because women are submissive, impressionable and soft-spoken huh?... ugh.

When people try to dichotomize their attributes and snap a gender label on personality traits it occurs to me that it's often overstereotypified as if it's blasphemy to suggest that they might sometimes feel like a submissive man or a dominant woman for instance.

This leads to dangerous train of thought: I'm submissive I must be a woman, I'm weak/impressionable/etc I must be a woman, I love wearing lingerie I must be a woman, etc. When in fact none of these things are relevant to gender identity. This is textbook internalized misogyny.

If in your mind your "strong" traits become male and your "weak" traits become female you can safely say that it warrants a red flag.

I very much agree with this. Not wanting to attack the OP at all. But we often see this sort of - 'I'm submissive, soft, and cry easily' as some kind of explanation for having 'female feelings' or a 'female mind'. This has nothing to do with being female. Women typically cry easier for lack of T (and some say, differently shaped tear ducts). So, a male assigned person being prone to tears really says nothing except that they may be a sensitive sort. Having feelings is not relegated to the female sex. Women cry easier because of physical factors, not  more feeling. And also social factors - not nearly as taboo for females to cry as for men.

And being more submissive - well, the female sex has pretty much been subjugated for as far as history goes back. It's a socialization thing, not an innate trait. Women are pretty much raised to take a back seat, be pleasing and accommodate.

[Jill F]

I very much agree with this. Not wanting to attack the OP at all. But we often see this sort of - 'I'm submissive, soft, and cry easily' as some kind of explanation for having 'female feelings' or a 'female mind'. This has nothing to do with being female. Women typically cry easier for lack of T (and some say, differently shaped tear ducts). So, a male assigned person being prone to tears really says nothing except that they may be a sensitive sort. Having feelings is not relegated to the female sex. Women cry easier because of physical factors, not  more feeling.

And being more submissive - well, the female sex has pretty much been subjugated for as far as history goes back. It's a socialization thing, not an innate trait. Women are pretty much raised to take a back seat, be pleasing and accommodate.

I like your take.  I cried all the time pre-HRT and was never remotely an alpha male, but I attributed that to the fact my brain is hard wired pretty far over to the "F" side of the spectrum.  When I got on E, the water works came a bit more easily.   

Also, my wife and mother were both raised to accept second-class status, but they both gave the world the finger and became an attorney and scientist respectively.  Neither were "girly girls" at all.  My wife has been known to send alpha males running away with their tails between their legs.

[Nero]

I very much agree with this. Not wanting to attack the OP at all. But we often see this sort of - 'I'm submissive, soft, and cry easily' as some kind of explanation for having 'female feelings' or a 'female mind'. This has nothing to do with being female. Women typically cry easier for lack of T (and some say, differently shaped tear ducts). So, a male assigned person being prone to tears really says nothing except that they may be a sensitive sort. Having feelings is not relegated to the female sex. Women cry easier because of physical factors, not  more feeling.

And being more submissive - well, the female sex has pretty much been subjugated for as far as history goes back. It's a socialization thing, not an innate trait. Women are pretty much raised to take a back seat, be pleasing and accommodate.

I like your take.  I cried all the time pre-HRT and was never remotely an alpha male, but I attributed that to the fact my brain is hard wired pretty far over to the "F" side of the spectrum.  When I got on E, the water works came a bit more easily.   

Also, my wife and mother were both raised to accept second-class status, but they both gave the world the finger and became an attorney and scientist respectively.  Neither were "girly girls" at all.  My wife has been known to send alpha males running away with their tails between their legs.

Oh yeah, I think dominant and submissive personalities come pretty much equally in both sexes. It's just that society is set up to make it easier for males to dominate. And women are discouraged from dominant behavior, face more social sanction for it. And males the opposite. Both are put 'in their place'. But really, as far as personalities go, I'm sure everyone knows  a few very dominant females and submissive males. Being submissive isn't a female trait. It's a female expectation, sure.

[Jess42]

I really don't know how to explain it but I am neither dominate or submissive. Sure, when I am with a guy, trans or cis, I really expect them to take the lead and make the decisions of where we go, what restaurant and so on. If I meet them at a club, make the first advances to me, buy me the first drink, tell me you would like to dance with me and so on. With women, trans or cis, it is more like a 50/50 type deal. I wouldn't actually call it submissiveness with a guy as much as letting them taking control with a input for me. Me being submissive will come later on if I like ya'.

[Pica Pica]

I am most certainly submissive in life. I find I react to things better than I start them.

[Satinjoy]

Wow this stuff gets so complicated quick.

Gender is weird.

All I know is that in bed, I am a girl.  And a wild one, ask my wife.

Outside it, anything goes, and does.  Labels are useless to me.  Feelings are everything, letting them flow, the heck with what gender is supposed to feel what.  It just feels and isn't supposed to be shushed by social strains.

But in bed, my wiring is not anything remotely male.  My physical feelings and perception of my body below the chin is that it is not male. I just have "leftovers" and even that doesn't feel male.  It actually looks to me like some kind of afterthought stuck on me.  And wearing male under things?  (((((SHIVERS))))))  no no no.

Too much information... oops.

Nails out, hair down, head up, finally free to be me.

But this gender assignment thing to dominate or submission psychologically, I dunno, and I bet I also fall into this trap.  I certainly am relationally dominant with the wife.

Too complicated.

[Jess42]

Wow this stuff gets so complicated quick.

Gender is weird.

All I know is that in bed, I am a girl.  And a wild one, ask my wife.

Outside it, anything goes, and does.  Labels are useless to me.  Feelings are everything, letting them flow, the heck with what gender is supposed to feel what.  It just feels and isn't supposed to be shushed by social strains.

But in bed, my wiring is not anything remotely male.  My physical feelings and perception of my body below the chin is that it is not male. I just have "leftovers" and even that doesn't feel male.  It actually looks to me like some kind of afterthought stuck on me.  And wearing male under things?  (((((SHIVERS))))))  no no no.

Too much information... oops.

Nails out, hair down, head up, finally free to be me.

But this gender assignment thing to dominate or submission psychologically, I dunno, and I bet I also fall into this trap.  I certainly am relationally dominant with the wife.

Too complicated.

My God, Satinjoy. It is extremely complicated. I think one of the problems is that we can see things from both perspectives. Actually feel things from both perspectives even. Like I said, when I am with a man, I want him to be the strong, decisive one. Even with women though I do not want to be the dominate one in the relationship. Who knows, I just may be messed up but when I want a man, I want a masculine man but with a woman, I want to feel more on a level playing field.

Like you said, it is complicated.

[Satinjoy]

Makes perfect sense to me, those comments.

I am in wedlock, that part of me in terms of preferences is deliberately shut down outside marriage, wife gets all of me.  At my age, it doesn't matter, love and intimacy and being real and playing with her and romance matters.   But the core is a constant in my scenario.  Now on hormones it is all a richer experience with more joy and sensuality and reality and peace.  Wasn't easy to get here though, as most of you know that have known me over time at Susans.

[Taka]

I have no desire to be dominant or submissive... where does that leave me??

vanilla. it's considered most normal by society, so normal that only those who are interested in other things or have read 50 shades would even think of calling it anything at all.

But one thing that has become clear to me as I read it over myself, is that I do indeed have a gender that is comprised of not just one gender, maybe more than two genders, but in general, they do seem to be as I write about them as she and he, but they are identifiers, not roles.
It's become more apparent than ever that they have identities, but they share roles in the same way that they share thoughts and intellect.
It's what they do with that shared knowledge at any given moment or situation.
They have an awareness, I have that awareness, they are after all, me.
That's what defines them, awareness, not the roles they play or even how they identify.
The mistake I have made all my life is in referring to them as she and he, implying that there is a role to be played.
It's not that big of a deal and it is an over simplified way of talking about my gender.

But this does lead me to ask all of you, are you assigning a role to your gender?
And if you are, do they really follow the roles that society has them playing?
Or are they their own roles and you feel that they should have at least some of those roles applied to them...
Are they different sides of you? Or are they really female and male?

that's pretty nicely explained. i'm glad you took the time to write a whole little essay about this.

i did think about assigning roles, or defining by roles, or calling different sides "he" or "she". but pretty much all of me hate gendered pronouns used to define, because i'm not definable in that way. took a little thinking to figure it out, but it's good to know that i didn't waste years to fretting over it before i realized.

but i do think i consist of several entities, or at least identities. not too sure what it really is. only thing i'm sure about is that Taka is an identity that really covers all there is to me. the name just stuck after using it in a context where i could be more of myself than i'd ever dared before that, and i felt more at home there than just accepted. what i like most about it is that it's perfectly gender neutral, though i don't think i could change my name to it.

other than that, i can't be sure of any names i've tried on, or identities that i have used. in the end, all of them might just be different personas, created to fit in a social context, or as a defense mechanism. or some times as a reaction to something else, like having been forced into one role for too long. gendered roles don't apply to me in any way i can find, but they're practical when i don't feel like explaining my entire gender history with people. [real name] is also a whole lot of persona, one that i felt compelled to fit into by other people's expectations. and many of them are explicitly expressed expectations from parents, peers, or others who've had different degrees of power over me in my childhood and youth.

but my gender doesn't seem to be something that can be easily defined by labels. different sides to my person will express themselves, often in rather unexpected ways. the gender those different sides claim to have seem fairly consistent, but i haven't managed to make any of them stick at the surface for much more than a few weeks at a time. and even then, i often switch between personalities almost the same way that i switch languages when talking to different people. it's weird, at times confusing, some times the personalities mix together, or one just disappears without me knowing where it went off to. but i don't think i'd want it any other way.

in offline society, i cover it all up by changing hair colors. makes it easier to keep up my [real name] persona, pretending to be a tomboyish slightly queer cis female isn't all that bad when i can change any aspect of my outward appearance that does not require hormones or surgery. the "female" label is annoying, but practical as long as i don't need to change it. that need may arise when online societies are no longer enough for my male sides to express themselves.

And I need someone to tell me what alpha means and some of the other acronyms I don't understand, like the three or four letter descriptions.  I haven't the faintest idea what those mean.

Alpha isn't an acronym, it is the first letter of the greek alphabet and denotes superiority and/or dominance.

or the even easier explanation, alpha is the type of behavior one would expect from the alpha male of a wolf pack.

And being more submissive - well, the female sex has pretty much been subjugated for as far as history goes back. It's a socialization thing, not an innate trait. Women are pretty much raised to take a back seat, be pleasing and accommodate.

female "submissiveness" might be linked to a lack of desire to attack others for the tiniest excuse one could possibly find. women who survive through anything are likely to raise more offspring into adulthood, and one of the easiest ways to survive is to never get noticed much outside one's home. but i don't really think this makes a woman truly submissive, and i don't think most women would even end up submissive this way, as a strong personality and ability to protect young ones against attackers also can be desirable in a person who is to take care of any offspring.

but it's easy to misunderstand a generally mellow personality as submissive. people often make that mistake with me, some have gotten more than a little shocked when they've started to realize that i can be completely unyielding in matters that are important to me. though i'm usually pretty quiet and don't say much for or against anything as long as people are being fairly reasonable.

[ElioAyla]

Yes because women are submissive, impressionable and soft-spoken huh?... ugh.

When people try to dichotomize their attributes and snap a gender label on personality traits it occurs to me that it's often overstereotypified as if it's blasphemy to suggest that they might sometimes feel like a submissive man or a dominant woman for instance.

This leads to dangerous train of thought: I'm submissive I must be a woman, I'm weak/impressionable/etc I must be a woman, I love wearing lingerie I must be a woman, etc. When in fact none of these things are relevant to gender identity. This is textbook internalized misogyny.

If in your mind your "strong" traits become male and your "weak" traits become female you can safely say that it warrants a red flag.

I never said that all women are soft spoken and submissive. I only said that I personally tended to be submissive (in the context of a social/ sexual relationship) in my female state. I don't like wearing lingerie or working on cars. I don't like wearing makeup as a boy or a girl. I like taking things apart and seeing how they work, but I'm not any good at math. Gender stereotypes have always befuddled me and made me scratch my head.

My strong and weak traits have nothing to do with this. 

[ElioAyla]

vanilla. it's considered most normal by society, so normal that only those who are interested in other things or have read 50 shades would even think of calling it anything at all.
that's pretty nicely explained. i'm glad you took the time to write a whole little essay about this.

i did think about assigning roles, or defining by roles, or calling different sides "he" or "she". but pretty much all of me hate gendered pronouns used to define, because i'm not definable in that way. took a little thinking to figure it out, but it's good to know that i didn't waste years to fretting over it before i realized.

but i do think i consist of several entities, or at least identities. not too sure what it really is. only thing i'm sure about is that Taka is an identity that really covers all there is to me. the name just stuck after using it in a context where i could be more of myself than i'd ever dared before that, and i felt more at home there than just accepted. what i like most about it is that it's perfectly gender neutral, though i don't think i could change my name to it.

other than that, i can't be sure of any names i've tried on, or identities that i have used. in the end, all of them might just be different personas, created to fit in a social context, or as a defense mechanism. or some times as a reaction to something else, like having been forced into one role for too long. gendered roles don't apply to me in any way i can find, but they're practical when i don't feel like explaining my entire gender history with people. [real name] is also a whole lot of persona, one that i felt compelled to fit into by other people's expectations. and many of them are explicitly expressed expectations from parents, peers, or others who've had different degrees of power over me in my childhood and youth.

but my gender doesn't seem to be something that can be easily defined by labels. different sides to my person will express themselves, often in rather unexpected ways. the gender those different sides claim to have seem fairly consistent, but i haven't managed to make any of them stick at the surface for much more than a few weeks at a time. and even then, i often switch between personalities almost the same way that i switch languages when talking to different people. it's weird, at times confusing, some times the personalities mix together, or one just disappears without me knowing where it went off to. but i don't think i'd want it any other way.

in offline society, i cover it all up by changing hair colors. makes it easier to keep up my [real name] persona, pretending to be a tomboyish slightly queer cis female isn't all that bad when i can change any aspect of my outward appearance that does not require hormones or surgery. the "female" label is annoying, but practical as long as i don't need to change it. that need may arise when online societies are no longer enough for my male sides to express themselves.
or the even easier explanation, alpha is the type of behavior one would expect from the alpha male of a wolf pack.
female "submissiveness" might be linked to a lack of desire to attack others for the tiniest excuse one could possibly find. women who survive through anything are likely to raise more offspring into adulthood, and one of the easiest ways to survive is to never get noticed much outside one's home. but i don't really think this makes a woman truly submissive, and i don't think most women would even end up submissive this way, as a strong personality and ability to protect young ones against attackers also can be desirable in a person who is to take care of any offspring.

but it's easy to misunderstand a generally mellow personality as submissive. people often make that mistake with me, some have gotten more than a little shocked when they've started to realize that i can be completely unyielding in matters that are important to me. though i'm usually pretty quiet and don't say much for or against anything as long as people are being fairly reasonable.

About the vanilla thing - yeah, i try to be like that, but there's so many extremes to me, or in here, that it is almost impossible. i guess i am just a trippy switch, versatile to the max.

i absolutely relate to what you said about multiple entities (or identities). I am not too sure which one mine are either, perhaps it is just a matter of perspective? There's just one body, at least that much I can be certain of.....my name is a combination of Sun and Moon. Yin and Yang. Duality. Elio Ayla. that's what i strive for, a balance, but it isnt always easy for me.

I know what you mean about expectations. I love to play with those things though. I'm not really very good at being a human being at all though. I wake up and look at myself in the mirror and just feel utter bemusement at what is staring back at me. It looks like an alien to me.

[ElioAyla]

In my day to day life, I'm an omega wolf. I make everybody laugh, even make a fool of myself if it's the only thing that will bring a smile, I ease tensions whenever I can, and if my packmates disrespect me and hurt me enough I might break away and go it alone. Male or female, that's just my role.