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alpha male, submissive female

Started by ElioAyla, September 21, 2013, 10:48:27 PM

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ElioAyla

When i enter a situation in my more natural state,  in a male mindset, I am confident and talkative. I can always make people laugh and tend to influence the group decision. But as a female, or shall I say in a female mindset, i am very quiet and shy. I feel submissive and impressionable. I don't think I have a mental disorder, multiple personalities or anything like that, but I worry that if I detail this to anyone, they will assume that. Does anyone else feel this way? I see myself as two spirited, third gender and this seems perfectly normal to me...       
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Danielle Emmalee

I can relate to that 100%, except I am less sure about not having multiple personalities.  There are actually a lot of people who live relatively happy lives being someone with multiple personalities, it doesn't always have to come with trauma or have to be something that ruins your life.  Not trying to convince you that you do have multiple personalities, just trying to kill the negative stigma with it. 
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
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ElioAyla

You're right - there is a lot of stigma surrounding so called mental disorder. Do you have just a male and a female persona, per se, or more?   
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Danielle Emmalee

I also seem to have one that's in between.  Or sometimes I see it as agender.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
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Taka

interesting...

i'm very dominant as a woman, except when i'm shy, depends on the situation. as a man, i don't really know. nothing special, i think.
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Jamie D

I am bigendered, and it seems situational.

Some things really set off my male; other things tug at my female.
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suzifrommd

Opposite for me. As a male (now long in the past) I was shy and cautious. As a female I am much more outgoing and not as self-conscious.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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ativan

Alpha Non-Binary. Except when I'm not.
Then I'm just Non-Binary nice person. Except when I'm not.
Then I'm just a total ass to be around. Except when I'm not around.
Which was most of my life. Except where I was.
Which was there. Except I'm not always sure about where there was sometimes.
But I'm pretty sure it was Alpha something. Or not.
Anxiety has it's own thoughts about it. Which is me.
Not which one, but anxiety has a lot to do with that.
This is a really tough question.
I would think that the Alpha me would have already answered it.
Alpha Female, Alpha Male, always when provoked.
Otherwise, you wouldn't even hear me behind you.
*Damn that Alpha person.
*You'd hear me. Maybe.
*Damn those Alpha me's.
Still a tough question.
Ativan
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JLT1

That sounds like a person who is in-touch with their inner self, their mind set at a given time, rather than a person with multiple personalities.  I'm not seeing a problem....
To move forward is to leave behind that which has become dear. It is a call into the wild, into becoming someone currently unknown to us. For most, it is a call too frightening and too challenging to heed. For some, it is a call to be more than we were capable of being, both now and in the future.
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Northern Jane

Oh yes, having multiple facets has been the norm for me for my whole life!

As a child I was terribly shy and very quiet. When puberty hit I found that when living in my female aspect I became very much more outgoing, social, humorous, confident, and bold. When I had to return to the supposed-male aspect, I remained very quiet and shy.

After SRS/transition (at 24) the outgoing, confident, and social aspect continued and in the workplace I definitely became an alpha type personality! I could get things done on time and on budget and move mountains, so much so that I was known as "the dragon lady" at work.

It is only in the last couple of years, in my 60s, that I have come to recognize that at the core of my being I am still very much a little girl - bubbly, optimistic, and very much a people-pleaser - and having retired I am very happy to have dropped the dragon lady aspect in favour of being a full-time little girl.

I don't see it as multiple personalities but as different and contrasting aspects of the same personality.
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Kaelin

I don't think I particularly have distinct parts of me, but I suppose I'm a little more quiet and slightly less confident as boy-clothed (likely keeping a secret) as opposed to girl-clothed (not bottling up that particular secret, and giving other people something to talk with me about).  Others may get bossier during the latter, but I think that's usually their way of complaining.  I suppose the bulk of my personality is a little more consistent, and perhaps it's because I'm fortunate enough that I can get away with it.
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Kinkly

I'm not sometimes male and sometimes female I always have up to 6 streams of thought going through my head with a male and a female demon and a male and female angel another that is gender neutral and neither clearly positive or negative the last is omni gender and very much angel like.  The demons keep bringing up nasty memories/ideas he used to be very vocal against me being even a little bit girly and if she had her way He wouldn't exist and I would present as a slutty girl only a small part of me would be happy with that.  so finding a compromise between Male and female and between naughty and nice has had me presenting as a bearded lady for a few years mostly conservatively  dressed but pretty I do have nagging thoughts about trying other ways to present as both male and female but unsure how to make it work practically.  Bearded lady works for me to show I am strongly both.  But everyone is different and how you present to ease the disphoria is a very personal journey that only needs to be undertaken by those that it will help.
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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jieshika93

I feel the same way! I have always felt like that.

If by "multiple personalities" you are referring to dissociative identity disorder, I can confirm that's not the case for you. If you had dissociative identity disorder, you mostly likely not know about the other, or at least not be entirely aware in the other personality. One personality, in a sense, is considered the "host" personality, and the one or more other personalities are considered "alternate" personalities.

But if you mean that you feel like you have two sets of distinctly different characteristics in your different mindsets, that's entirely possible. That's how it is for me - on my male days, I'm always more comfortable with myself and more confident; on my female days, I am more self-conscious and shy. I don't think there's anything wrong or strange about that!
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Gina_Z

Elio, I feel the opposite way. My mom was very outgoing and my dad was sort of the strong silent type. So my feminine side is outgoing and talkative and my masculine side is more the strong silent type.
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Shantel

Quote from: Gina_Z on September 29, 2013, 12:59:48 PM
Elio, I feel the opposite way. My mom was very outgoing and my dad was sort of the strong silent type. So my feminine side is outgoing and talkative and my masculine side is more the strong silent type.

Yes, in retrospect this would best describe me as well!
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ElioAyla

then again, i have been looking into this a great deal, and i'm not so sure about not being a multiple anymore. still puzzling over whether my various personalities are actually personalities or just different aspects of one personality...I may never know... :D

http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman/whatis.html

http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman/preference.html
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helen2010

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 24, 2013, 10:02:00 PM
Alpha Non-Binary. Except when I'm not.
Then I'm just Non-Binary nice person. Except when I'm not.
Then I'm just a total ass to be around. Except when I'm not around.
Which was most of my life. Except where I was.
Which was there. Except I'm not always sure about where there was sometimes.
But I'm pretty sure it was Alpha something. Or not.
Anxiety has it's own thoughts about it. Which is me.
Not which one, but anxiety has a lot to do with that.
This is a really tough question.
I would think that the Alpha me would have already answered it.
Alpha Female, Alpha Male, always when provoked.
Otherwise, you wouldn't even hear me behind you.
*Damn that Alpha person.
*You'd hear me. Maybe.
*Damn those Alpha me's.
Still a tough question.
Ativan

Love it!

It is a little like - I am a wave except when I am a particle

Aisla
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Ms Grace

I have no desire to be dominant or submissive... where does that leave me?? :-\
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Seyranna

Yes because women are submissive, impressionable and soft-spoken huh?... ugh.

When people try to dichotomize their attributes and snap a gender label on personality traits it occurs to me that it's often overstereotypified as if it's blasphemy to suggest that they might sometimes feel like a submissive man or a dominant woman for instance.

This leads to dangerous train of thought: I'm submissive I must be a woman, I'm weak/impressionable/etc I must be a woman, I love wearing lingerie I must be a woman, etc. When in fact none of these things are relevant to gender identity. This is textbook internalized misogyny.

If in your mind your "strong" traits become male and your "weak" traits become female you can safely say that it warrants a red flag.
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ativan

Quote from: Seyranna on June 02, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
Yes because women are submissive, impressionable and soft-spoken huh?... ugh.
When people try to dichotomize their attributes and snap a gender label on personality traits it occurs to me that it's often overstereotypified as if it's blasphemy to suggest that they might sometimes feel like a submissive man or a dominant woman for instance.
This leads to dangerous train of thought: I'm submissive I must be a woman, I'm weak/impressionable/etc I must be a woman, I love wearing lingerie I must be a woman, etc. When in fact none of these things are relevant to gender identity. This is textbook internalized misogyny.

If in your mind your "strong" traits become male and your "weak" traits become female you can safely say that it warrants a red flag.
In discussions about certain times when stress causes what feels like a separation of self, my therapist has noted that what I loosely refer to as she and he for lack of a better way to state it, the usual impressions of definitions of just what are male and female roles goes out the window.
She has noted several times that she has no idea which side of me is which if I don't identify them as she or he.
The roles that one would assume they would play out as don't apply.
I've tried to explain this as although they do seem to separate (a very uncomfortable feeling) they still hold the same threads or thoughts they share, just like they always do, they just deal with the situation as one or the other while still drawing on this meshing of thoughts, strengths and weaknesses that they have.
There really isn't an identity in the way one would think, they are more like separate personalities that are shared in an extreme.
She has asked me on occasion if I think they have switched roles at anytime or sometimes.
This is a confusing thing to try and answer, they don't have roles.
What they are is a very shared sense of self that are separated by their own definitions of gender, not ones that I assign to them.
One is the defender in ways that are in your face, the other is a defender in an intellectual way, yet they both share this same knowledge, because after all, they are just me.
If they couldn't share this, they would be nothing more than split personalities, which they most certainly are not, they are genders, but to define them by standard roles doesn't work.
They share everything that is me, I am me because of them.
They don't define themselves by roles, yet they are different by way of gender.
During times of tranquility, they are one and the same, they are both there, but their thoughts and actions work in unison.
It's only during times of stress that they seem to separate into different roles, but not in the sense that they have defined roles.
They switch hit when they need to.
I don't have a simple way of defining just what that is supposed to mean, I've tried and there isn't a simple answer.
They draw on each others strengths, push down their weaknesses as needed.

My therapist asked me to write her a short story as an example of what that means, as a way to help her understand what it is I talk about.
Over 80,000 words later, I'm still writing that story.
There are only a couple people who have been reading parts of it and one person who is familiar with the story, but not from the standpoint of trying to express what the roles are of my gender.
More of a person who questions my use of grammar and spelling.
She's starting to get the picture of just what my gender is.
But one thing that has become clear to me as I read it over myself, is that I do indeed have a gender that is comprised of not just one gender, maybe more than two genders, but in general, they do seem to be as I write about them as she and he, but they are identifiers, not roles.
It's become more apparent than ever that they have identities, but they share roles in the same way that they share thoughts and intellect.
It's what they do with that shared knowledge at any given moment or situation.
They have an awareness, I have that awareness, they are after all, me.
That's what defines them, awareness, not the roles they play or even how they identify.
The mistake I have made all my life is in referring to them as she and he, implying that there is a role to be played.
It's not that big of a deal and it is an over simplified way of talking about my gender.

But this does lead me to ask all of you, are you assigning a role to your gender?
And if you are, do they really follow the roles that society has them playing?
Or are they their own roles and you feel that they should have at least some of those roles applied to them...
Are they different sides of you? Or are they really female and male? There's a fine line there somewhere.
I trust that you recognize that indeed there are more than just one dimension to your gender in such a way that they define themselves as separate to you and that you understand that they are, that they are more than just the male and female sides to anyone.
Binaries all talk about the different aspects of their one apparent gender and talk about those same things, the roles that the feminine side of them play, the masculine side plays.
I find myself with distinct genders from that point of view, but I can only think of them as my gender, which has more definition than a binary gender has.
But those definitions are not roles that they talk about and the ones that I hear some of you talking about and questioning.

Is the confusion about these roles, is because you feel an obligation to define them that way?
I guess I don't do that, they define themselves in how they interact together as me.
They ignore those rules of roles, so I do too.
I should have never defined them as she and he, it is way too over simplified to do that and I can see how it causes confusion.
I just got used to calling them that.
Because there aren't words in English that I can use, I use those as handy replacements for the lack of better terms.
I don't really view them as a she or he, they just are, I could just as easily switch those words or terms around for them.
I think that's probably what confuses my therapist when I talk about it.
They don't play roles, they have defined their own and they share them.
Ativan
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