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Something that made me think of you boys.

Started by Jennifer.L, September 30, 2013, 11:47:11 PM

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Jennifer.L







http://www.upworthy.com/when-a-gay-guy-gets-nabbed-by-the-sexual-orientation-police-3

^.^  I won't lie, I like T-boys just like I like most boys that have style.  I'm generally a lesbian but hell why should anyone have to bow to gay-strait stereotypes? :)  I've had a crush on Justin Timber lake for year, but I mean, Who wouldn't? 
Live your life.

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King Malachite

HHAHAHAHAHAHA one of those guys said "post testosterone" and another said "Penis-in-vagina" lololololololol.
Feel the need to ask me something or just want to check out my blog?  Then click below:

http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135882.0.html


"Sometimes you have to go through outer hell to get to inner heaven."

"Anomalies can make the best revolutionaries."
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Cindy

Heee Heeee

I remember a conversation that a fellow trans*woman and I had with a cis female friend, who BTW is a friend and totally understanding - well tries to be.

She asks so what is your sexual orientation?

I'm straight - that means I like straight guys

Oh - we can see the struggle in her face.

And my friend pipes up

I'm lesbian - I like woman

But, she says, you are both pre-op, so isn't Cindy Gay and you straight?

Nope says I. I would would be Gay if I liked woman, and M would be straight if she liked guys.

Oh and her face is a mass of conflict. After a few seconds she gives up.

"Lets go have a coffee."

So we did.
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Contravene

I don't know, I'm not one who's easily offended but the cartoon made me uncomfortable. It's almost as if trans guys are being portrayed as some sort of living, breathing sex toy. All it mentioned was how he likes trans guys because they're usually shorter than cis guys (which is a fact that's very painful for some of us) and because they're more "butch" even though I wouldn't really use the term "butch" for trans men because they're just just dressing as men in a butch style, they actually are men. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I didn't like it. The guy in the cartoon also seems to be trying way too hard to justify his own sexuality and why he likes trans guys over cis guys when really, who cares? You like what you like and shouldn't have to justify that to anyone, especially not yourself. And "gold star gay" I've never heard of that term until now but it's disgusting what people will consider a badge of honor sometimes. It reminds me of the frat boys at my college who gave badges and awards to the one who deflowered the most girls.

That being said, I have nothing against people who are attracted to trans men because of their physicality. It's just an area we have to be careful in because sometimes that's the only thing people want.
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Taka

you might be reading too much into it.

the guy first tried to justify his sexuality. but that's a normal reaction when you're attacked and not recognized for who you are.
it mentions how hormones matter. they really do matter when it comes to sexual attraction, so it's not weird if that's his experience.
the guy stressed that sex was a very minimal part of a relationship. i don't see the "living breathing sex toy" that you see.
he only says three of his four last relationships were with trans men. who knows how many he had before that... when he says he may have a thing for short guys, i read it as meaning that he doesn't have a thing for vagina, so it's not their transness that attracts him. he just presents it as one possible reason for why he finds himself more attracted to men who happen to be short (and/or trans) lately.
i find "gold star gay" somewhat biphobic. but the comic probably uses it to stress that the guy's nowhere near being bisexual. meaning he'd never touch a person he saw as a woman, or even close to being one.

Quotebutch |boŏ ch | informal
adjective
manlike or masculine in appearance or behavior, typically aggressively or ostentatiously so.
from my laptop dictionary. "butch" can be used about a person of any gender.

and i don't really think this was written mainly for trans people. it's for or about people who have problems understanding that a man is a man even if he happens to have been born with a vagina.
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Magnus

Quote from: Contravene on October 01, 2013, 05:34:55 AM
I don't know, I'm not one who's easily offended but the cartoon made me uncomfortable. It's almost as if trans guys are being portrayed as some sort of living, breathing sex toy. All it mentioned was how he likes trans guys because they're usually shorter than cis guys (which is a fact that's very painful for some of us) and because they're more "butch" even though I wouldn't really use the term "butch" for trans men because they're just just dressing as men in a butch style, they actually are men. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I didn't like it. The guy in the cartoon also seems to be trying way too hard to justify his own sexuality and why he likes trans guys over cis guys when really, who cares? You like what you like and shouldn't have to justify that to anyone, especially not yourself. And "gold star gay" I've never heard of that term until now but it's disgusting what people will consider a badge of honor sometimes. It reminds me of the frat boys at my college who gave badges and awards to the one who deflowered the most girls.

That being said, I have nothing against people who are attracted to trans men because of their physicality. It's just an area we have to be careful in because sometimes that's the only thing people want.
I find no fault in any of these excellent points, and I agree.

Though perhaps... just perhaps... it was so to portray the purview of those who actually do rationalize us in these ways. In other words, we know and perhaps this artist/captioner knows, we're not like that and it to us isn't like that, but its more of an inside joke (for us) on behalf of the illiterate who do think that way? I mean, that is entirely possible and I'm leaning towards it by the virtue of that this is supposed to be like one of those Sunday newspaper comedy strips... but yeah, it is still too indistinct to really be sure.


Personally, no hard feelings. I'm Asexual so... I have no personal stake in this one. :icon_lalala:


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geek





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DriftingCrow

ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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Nygeel

There's so many problems here. Sadly, I'm a terrible writer and can't make a cohesive writing on what's wrong. Thankfully other people have pointed out all the problems!

I should add as an amendment if its not clear from the comic that trans men does not necessarily equal man with a vagina; as Bill points out, it's not a female body unless they label it that way, and different parts are labelled different things. I also think its a bit of a cop out saying 'I wouldn't put it that way but yeah basically' when you're asked about your trans partner's body. If someone said that about me (that I basically have a female body, when I've had extreme dysphoria over that) it would feel like a gigantic kick in the teeth.
If you're able to educate, leave it as 'I wouldn't describe their body that way: it's a male body.' Or simply leave it. Don't be a cop out and say something that could hurt your partner, even behind their back. And also, [some] trans men do have penises attached to them permanently, not just on the shelf. I see it joked around a lot that trans guys are better in bed because they have an array of d*cks, whereas many just own one for penetration and one flesh one which is attached to them. Some have a connection between the two: it's not a toy, it's their penis and you shouldnt treat it as an object. Or they could penetrate after an operation. I know lots of guys that like penetration penises to be as natural as possible- so not big purple and knobbly, but average sized and discreet. In all, I think this is effective for elaborating on my earlier post about genital attraction.
The reason why I generally don't date gay cis guys is because of this: they've been pretty much brainwashed by mainstream thinking that vagina is gross and they can't like it if they're gay. This is also the reason I've been with trans men only in long term relationships. And casual ->-bleeped-<-s. And basically everything. Amendment to the amendment: I'm often a lot camper than my male partners. Masculinity is redundant.


Also, that panel where he says he'd only be attracted to the same guy AFTER he's on T? I feel really weird about that. To me, that smacks of objectification; he's not attracted to the person, it's purely about the way their hormones make them look. If someone is ONLY attracted to me because I've got a certain set of hormones in my system at that moment in time, how meaningful is their attraction? This is a tricky subject, because yeah sexual orientation based on a "look" is a real and valid thing. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to change what they're sexually attracted to, but I want it acknowledged that some preferences like this are almost undoubtedly based upon implicit cissexism. He uses language to disown responsibility for his attraction patterns by saying "my libido has its own criteria for when it responds." It's not him, it's just his libido.

It's unspoken that when he says he is attracted to trans* guys what he actually means is "I'm attracted to masculine, c*ck-identified trans* men who have been on and stayed on T at a full dosage for a while." That is NOT the same as being attracted to trans* men. This implicitly seems to assume that all trans* men are c*ck-identified, which they aren't. And that all trans* guys want to go on and stay on T, which they don't.

Plus, I (and many other guys) don't label that particular genital shape a "vagina" and it's gross having my body labeled that way without my consent by a cis person.

This whole comic sort of seems like "I'm open-minded because I'm less transphobic than some cis gay men, I'm so awesome because I deign to date trans* people. And poor me, I'm a cis person who has to field a tiny bit of transphobia, this is awful." Yeah, it's awful—now imagine how ->-bleeped-<-ed up this feels for his PARTNERS, at whom this transphobia is actually directed. Because let me tell you, it's sh*tty knowing that your partner's sexual orientation is questioned solely because they're with you. (Or, if you're dating someone who previously identified as lesbian, NOT having anyone question their sexuality just because they're with you) Not once in this whole comic does the author acknowledge that the flack he gets for dating trans* men is transphobia which might have a negative impact on his partners because it's actually directed at them, not him.

There's more here
Other people's words that were copy/pasted have been censored, and edited to be easier to read, but the linked post is not, and contains more content.
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FTMDiaries

Well... personally, I found it a bit uncomfortable. I think the author means well, but overall it does remind me of the fact that I'm likely to face this sort of gender/orientation policing and general awkwardness all the time when I launch myself back into the dating pool. It's pretty heartbreaking that plenty of guys will see me as being 'really a girl' no matter what. :(





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aleon515

I am not gay, well I don't think I am. I've seen these before on FB. I heard some people were uncomfortable with some stuff which might be stereotypical. I read his page, he said this is ONLY his experience, and didn't imply anybody else's.


--Jay
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Natkat

It's all over my facebook. I like the comic. ^^

I can kinda relate. I feel bisexual but my label also been seams be in struggle because I had relationship/chrushes on other transgenders.
So people think I should be pansexual insteed when I am attracted to other transgenders..
I disagree that you cant be straight gay or bisexual just because you find transgender attractive, or even if your main attraction have been for transgenders. I think thats pretty much what the comic is all about this "sexualety police" that if you fall for someone transgender then you people will talk crap that you cant be gay-straight-lesbian anymore or whatever they say.

sad but true..


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Taka

Hormones matter not only because of how they maje people look, but also because of how they make people smell. There are certain scents that attract me more, others that make me want to puke. Much of it is caused by genetics, but hormones and diet also play a part here. I believe that initial attraction is caused by much more than just what the eyes can register.
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Jennifer.L


Don't mind me I'm jsut stirren this pot ^.^


Oh and Taka, your damn right about the smell.  Before HRT I didn't know about that.  and I still love girls most of all.  But well there is something pleasant about that boy smell xD. 





P.s.  I had the idea off a Stiring the pot Meme and the first pic is the one I settled on but I liked these as well xD
Live your life.

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dalebert

Quote from: Taka on October 01, 2013, 06:08:26 AM
from my laptop dictionary. "butch" can be used about a person of any gender.

I can see how the term could make a trans man uncomfortable since it's often used to describe a certain type of lesbian, but it's also a word gay men commonly use to describe gay men who are more masculine / less effeminate.

John Smith

I like the comic, and could comment on several points some have  found problematic, but it's my bed-time so I'll just pick one.

He's not stating he "wouldn't date someone pre-t". That panel shows him being introduced to a person before and after t. Before, there's simply no attraction. When meeting him again, after t, there is. Why? I would assume because of some of the changes one gets from T, the same changes that tend to tip guys from being gendered as female to male. If I see a pic in a "before and after"-thread and find someone attractive after t, but not at all interesting pre-t, am I a bad person? I'd say no. It simply means the t has changed the guy's appearance in a way that makes the person more interesting to me. That would be my libido going "Well hey there..."  That doesn't mean I wouldn't date anyone pre-t, but I'd be more likely to be attracted to someone on t than not.

Went and got me a ticker, so everytime I post I'm reminded to put down whatever I was about to eat. >.>
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aleon515

Quote from: John Smith on October 01, 2013, 05:03:24 PM
I like the comic, and could comment on several points some have  found problematic, but it's my bed-time so I'll just pick one.

He's not stating he "wouldn't date someone pre-t". That panel shows him being introduced to a person before and after t. Before, there's simply no attraction. When meeting him again, after t, there is. Why? I would assume because of some of the changes one gets from T, the same changes that tend to tip guys from being gendered as female to male. If I see a pic in a "before and after"-thread and find someone attractive after t, but not at all interesting pre-t, am I a bad person? I'd say no. It simply means the t has changed the guy's appearance in a way that makes the person more interesting to me. That would be my libido going "Well hey there..."  That doesn't mean I wouldn't date anyone pre-t, but I'd be more likely to be attracted to someone on t than not.


I think it would make sense John. However, I think in this guy's case it was VERY literal. When he met his last trans guy first he was not on T. He kind of didnt' think of him and then he met him the second time and he's on T, and he did. So it seems like just when you get interested in someone, sometiems its not the first time. This is a very personal type comic, very much his own view. I think there is a certain sweetness to it, but as people say it does maybe go to some other stereotypes. We got into quite a big discussion of this in one of the FB groups I'm in with some people really liking and some disliking strongly. But it did help some guys to see this as a personal view.

@Jennifer, well this got to be a discussion on another group I'm in. I think this has been making the rounds, so to speak.


--Jay
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geek

Don't see why people need to get offended about everything *rolls eyes*




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Nygeel

Quote from: Geek on October 02, 2013, 01:54:56 AM
Don't see why people need to get offended about everything *rolls eyes*
I don't see why people need to keep making offensive cartoons *rolls eyes*
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geek

Quote from: Nygeel on October 02, 2013, 02:25:55 AM
I don't see why people need to keep making offensive cartoons *rolls eyes*
ROFL yes whatever you say cupcake




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