Unaffordable Care Act

[Jamie D]

The democrats have been trying to clean-up the mess left by the past republicans' administration. Its a slow process since those policy's put us in a recession.   The AFC act will in the long run bring down healthcare costs since people will be getting preventative healthcare. http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/myths-and-facts


"The health policy experts and economists who have looked at this legislation have said we are pursuing every possible mechanism to reduce health care costs. The Congressional Budget Office found that health insurance reform will reduce the deficit by $210 billion in this decade and by more than $1 trillion over the following 10 years. And a family of four would save as much as $2,300 on their premiums in 2014 compared to what they would have paid without reform."

It will not be free why do so many people assume all will get free healthcare? Those people are already in the U.S. and can use the emergency rooms presently so we all are paying for it now may as well make them pay some. Besides many republican(hypocrites) owned businesses use Mexican labor!


Bs!
The repubs shut down the govt. because of O'Bamacare how did they work out for them?
Is that good for our country because they obviously don't care about putting people out of work when they don't agree with the with the act that was passed by both houses and upheld by the SCOTUS?

What flavor was the Kool-Aid?  ROTFLMAO

[Gina_Z]

Let's be open minded. Let's see how Obamacare works out. So far, it looks really really bad. No doubt about that. It could turn around and work, but the administration currently looks inept.

[Shantel]

Let's be open minded. Let's see how Obamacare works out. So far, it looks really really bad. No doubt about that. It could turn around and work, but the administration currently looks inept.

That was a most kind understatement Gina!

[Jamie D]

Kaiser Permanente just cancelled 160,000 policies in California.  Another 300,000 policies have be cancelled by a Florida carrier, because they did not meet the Affordable (sic) Care Act guidelines.

In places like Kentucky, over 80% of the enrollees have signed up for Medicare coverage.  Young, healthy people are staying away in droves.

What a disaster.

[Donna Elvira]

Jamie, Shantel,
While I know this is a debate that is internal to the US, for those of us coming from the vast majority of developed countries where universal obligatory health insurance has been the norm since the end of WWII, it is quite bewildering.
The first steps in setting up Obamacare do indeed look like a mess but rather than a return the status quo doesn't the answer that make the most sense be the imposition of obligatory health insurance for all at either the state or the ferderal level? Unless of course people in the US think it is OK for millions to have nothing other than emergency coverage simply because they had the misfortune to be poor. By the same reasoning, you could also exclude the poor from education and, pushing survival of the fittest to it's ultimate logic, elminate all mutualisation of risk ie. do away with the idea of society. But maybe I am simply misunderstanding something?
Hugs.
Donna

P.S. First time in my life I have felt like a left winger which just goes to show how relative such notions can be..

[Arch]

I have students who say they cannot afford to see a doctor. Yet they have low-cost (and, for some things, FREE) student health care, and they pay out gobs of money every month for cellular phones that do everything but wash the dirty dishes. Then there are the students who can afford to be seen.

The other week, I asked a FEW students why, when they had suffered injury or illness, they could not get a simple note from campus health services. One guy went into a lengthy and involved explanation that I never could follow, an explanation of why he sought the services of a massage therapist who happens to be a personal friend. These services were not free; he paid a fee. But he never saw a doctor. And why, I asked, did he not also go to campus health, just for the note? Another lengthy excuse.

Another student said that she didn't WANT to use campus health services, but she didn't bother to get a note from her doctor, who was yet another personal friend. She was surprised that I wanted documentation so that I could give her an extension. I told her no note, no extension. She said that she would ask, but she seemed doubtful. I haven't heard back yet.

Another gal told me a very involved story about her regular insurance, which had lapsed without her knowledge, so she couldn't see her regular doctor. She then drove down to Tijuana to a doctor who refused to write a note. When I asked her why she didn't just go to campus health services, she didn't even know what I was talking about. She had no idea that she was covered. She eventually went, but the note she got was useless because she was completely well by then.

Another student came back to school after getting the flu. I asked her if she knew about the free flu shots for students. She didn't get one because she doesn't like needles and is afraid--get this--that the shot will make her sick. Honey, that ship has sailed. Get the damned flu shot. It uses killed virus, for Pete's sake.

I used to work with people at my old job who COULD afford health insurance but chose not to pay for it. They would say that it was too expensive or whatever, but after talking to them, I discovered that they just didn't want to part with the money and were gambling that nothing bad would happen.

I guess my point is that there are a lot of ignorant people out there. My students are covered for some things but don't use the insurance they have. Many of my old coworkers simply chose not to be covered when they COULD afford it. I'm not saying that these two scenarios describe all of the insured or underinsured, but, jeez, get a clue, people.

[Shantel]

Jamie, Shantel,
While I know this is a debate that is internal to the US, for those of us coming from the vast majority of developed countries where universal obligatory health insurance has been the norm since the end of WWII, it is quite bewildering.
The first steps in setting up Obamacare do indeed look like a mess but rather than a return the status quo doesn't the answer that make the most sense be the imposition of obligatory health insurance for all at either the state or the ferderal level? Unless of course people in the US think it is OK for millions to have nothing other than emergency coverage simply because they had the misfortune to be poor. By the same reasoning, you could also exclude the poor from education and, pushing survival of the fittest to it's ultimate logic, elminate all mutualisation of risk ie. do away with the idea of society. But maybe I am simply misunderstanding something?
Hugs.
Donna

P.S. First time in my life I have felt like a left winger which just goes to show how relative such notions can be..

The concept of anything obligatory and mandated by the government isn't a free world concept, we don't want to be forced to accept the European model. It flies in the face of the reason why people originally emigrated to this continent and continue to come here.

[Jamie D]

Anything managed by the Federal Government is bound to become bogged down by bureaucratic inefficiencies. The free market is always better suited to run things like health care, because of the principle of competition and the need to return a profit.

And, as a rule of thumb, government programs become increasingly bureaucratic, bloated, and burdensome on the economy.  Part of the problems being that elected politicians like to make extravagant, unaffordable promises of government largesse, in hopes of conning enough voters to become elected, or re-elected.

The US federal government is broke.  It should not be promising more spending on healthcare or any other social program, but instead, it should be cutting back on entitlements and pork barrel spending.

[amZo]

Anything managed by the Federal Government is bound to become bogged down by bureaucratic inefficiencies. The free market is always better suited to run things like health care, because of the principle of competition and the need to return a profit.

And, as a rule of thumb, government programs become increasingly bureaucratic, bloated, and burdensome on the economy.  Part of the problems being that elected politicians like to make extravagant, unaffordable promises of government largesse, in hopes of conning enough voters to become elected, or re-elected.

The US federal government is broke.  It should not be promising more spending on healthcare or any other social program, but instead, it should be cutting back on entitlements and pork barrel spending.

Plus, one political party (for EXAMPLE the democrats) can't freeze private sector insurance payments via a government shutdown and blame it on the other party (i.e., republicans in this 'non-partisan' example  )

[Shantel]

This is more than just a LGBTI travesty for those who are happy with their present insurance plan, as evidenced by this 1934 cartoon they have been at it for a long time and it goes way deeper than a nationalized healthcare plan.

[Jamie D]

Stalin is in the background, but the fellow in the front left I believe to be Trotsky.  Henry Wallace, shoveling out the money from the wagon, was the "fellow traveler" Roosevelt chose to be his VP during the third term.  America dodged a bullet to the head when Wallace was dumped in 1944 in favor of Truman.

[Danielle Emmalee]

Maybe the whole thing is just a conspiracy to make it look like the government tried to implement a universal health care system but it ended up failing.  Its the thought that counts right?  Then y'all can just go back to the old way and say hey at least we tried.  This is obviously over-simplified, but I just refuse to believe that the government is really that horrible at doing things not on purpose.  There's some hidden agenda behind it.

[Eva Marie]

Anything managed by the Federal Government is bound to become bogged down by bureaucratic inefficiencies. The free market is always better suited to run things like health care, because of the principle of competition and the need to return a profit.

You mean like the DMV, the postal service, the IRS, and social security? Broke, bureaucratic, incompetent, and subject to politics?

Nah, can't possibly happen! LOL.....

[amZo]

Maybe the whole thing is just a conspiracy to make it look like the government tried to implement a universal health care system but it ended up failing.  Its the thought that counts right?  Then y'all can just go back to the old way and say hey at least we tried.  This is obviously over-simplified, but I just refuse to believe that the government is really that horrible at doing things not on purpose.  There's some hidden agenda behind it.

There's a growing chorus of people believing this debacle was on purpose to bring about single-payer. Ya see, it's not all that simple to go back to the 'old way' once it's dismantled.

But the burning question I have is... when our excellent health care system collapses,  where will Canadians go in order to avoid those very long waiting lines for life saving medical procedures? Mexico maybe?

[Jamie D]

There's a growing chorus of people believing this debacle was on purpose to bring about single-payer. Ya see, it's not all that simple to go back to the 'old way' once it's dismantled.

But the burning question I have is... when our excellent health care system collapses,  where will Canadians go in order to avoid those very long waiting lines for life saving medical procedures? Mexico maybe?

A little more than half of all Canadians have some sort of private supplemental insurance.

[Danielle Emmalee]

A little more than half of all Canadians have some sort of private supplemental insurance.

Unless there's something I don't know about, this is a little misleading.  The private insurance that these Canadians have is to cover things not covered by Provincial Health Care, i.e. medications, dental, therapy, etc.  There aren't private hospitals (at least that I know of)

[amZo]

A little more than half of all Canadians have some sort of private supplemental insurance.

Well thank goodness eh?  Kind of like social security here in the U.S., no one of sound mind relies on it any longer.

[Danielle Emmalee]

Well thank goodness eh?  Kind of like social security here in the U.S., no one of sound mind relies on it any longer.

As I said, the health insurance that the majority of Canadians have is never used to replace the Provincial Health Care at all, only to cover what it does not cover itself.  Also, Canadians have the same problem with our version of Social Security.

[Danielle Emmalee]

There are many Canadians pushing for a more American style of health care, public health care for everyone and private for those that can afford it.  Right now all we have is public.

[Donna Elvira]

Interestingly, most people in this part of the world also have some private medical insurance which covers things that are not well covered by the the univeral scheme like "cosmetic" dental care, glasses, private hospital rooms...I think it also worth mentioning that about 30% of hospitals in France are private which means that for many types of medical care, you have a choice between public and private hospitals and, in my experience, waiting has never been an issue. The public insurance also covers the costs of the private hospitals, up to certain pre-set limits, the rest being paid for either out of pocket or through the private medical insurance I mentioned above.
I would yet again like to emphasize that in spite of there being no obvious difference in the quality of medical care provided in the US compared to Europe, the % of national wealth devoted to health care is much higher in the US (17% compared to about 12% on average in Europe) while still excluding millions of people. If this is a demonstation of market efficiency at it's best I think it can be compared to the market efficiency of Wall Street priori to 2008 and we all know where that brought us to. But, I guess for true believers, no counter evidence is ever too much to sway their convictions...
With that, I'm  just a few hours away from a two week vacation so I'll leave it at that.
Hugs
Donna