Quote from: FA on May 11, 2014, 12:51:13 PM
I probably shouldn't comment on this. But the vast majority of that stuff is men on men.
I don't see how that's relevant at all to a conversation about who has privilege. It sounds like you're trying to blame me, an innocent and non-violent person, for crimes perpetuated by criminals because they happen to be the same gender as me. The vast majority is by a small percentage of criminals perpetrated on innocent people, and very likely a small percentage of criminals engaging in repeat behavior. And the fact is that, contrary to common perception, you're statistically safer walking the streets as a woman because discussion of violence is often gendered when it shouldn't be, e.g. "never hit a woman" resulting in a culture that is much more okay with violence against men than against women. Men are far more often the victims of violent crimes. There is male privilege in certain contexts and there is female privilege in certain contexts, and this is one of those where women are privileged.
QuoteYes, there are females who kill. But it's a lot rarer than men killing. A man is much more likely to be the victim of a crime perpetrated by another man than a woman - mugging, assault, rape, murder, whatever. That doesn't mean women never do these things. Just that it's much more likely the perp will be male. Any person - male or female - is much more likely to be the victim of a crime perpetrated by a man than a woman.
It's true but I don't think it's relevant to a discussion about who has privilege. It also brings up another area of female privilege that's not shown in that chart. Women are less likely to be convicted of the same crime and will statistically serve much shorter sentences for the same crime. The perception (that you are helping to perpetuate right now) that men are more prone to crime has become a self-fulfilling prophecy that skews the numbers somewhat.
QuoteAnd suicide - yeah men are more likely to succeed at suicide. Because they usually choose more direct and violent means than women. A woman is more likely to take a bunch of pills or slit her wrist and a man is more likely to just shoot himself.
I hear that fairly frequently as a way to hand-wave away a serious issue but it's not that simple. Suicide is often a cry for help, at least on some subconscious level, and a more drastic attempt could also be seen as a more sincere attempt at suicide. And I don't think many people will argue with the idea that men are much less likely to seek help when they feel troubled. Think about this.
TRIGGER WARNINGIf you take a bunch of pills and it's either not a large enough dose or you get found before it's too late, your suicide attempt is now documented. If you're sitting there with your finger on the trigger of a gun that's in your mouth and you never quite build up the guts to pull the trigger, as a man in particular, you will likely never want someone to find out that you were about to "give up" and that case won't get documented.END trigger warningQuoteIndustrial and combat deaths - well, men are much more likely to have those sort of jobs than women. So of course they comprise most of the fatalities. And we're not living in draft times, so these occupations are chosen.
This is true. A lot of the differences between men and women come down to choices. A man's attractiveness in the eyes of women is much more attached to things like bravery, heroism, ability to provide resources. Women are catching up or even ahead of men in many areas in prestigious jobs like doctors, lawyers, and engineers. Women are way ahead in education, graduating high school and college at a much higher rate. Jobs that are more grueling or dangerous are still overwhelmingly predominated by men. It's not (at least not mostly) due to discrimination. It's because women don't want those jobs. They're not under the same societal pressures as men that would make them make such unappealing choices.
QuoteAnd I'm not sure that 'privilege' was ever the right word to use.
On this, we agree. The word is used to "other" a group of people. Often it's used to invalidate their opinions. It's used to say they can't possibly understand what someone else is going through no matter how you explain it. It's used as justification for special treatment to compensate the non-privileged, often in unfair ways.
QuoteIt's not that males are privileged, but that females are unprivileged.
I think that's obviously not accurate based on hard statistical data.
QuoteBecause they grow up in a society where they are always 'other'. Their femaleness defines them in a way that a guy's maleness doesn't. Because he's the default and she's not. You see what I'm saying?
I do and I agree, but that doesn't mean they aren't privileged in some contexts like the ones already pointed out. I feel like we're on completely the wrong track in the process of trying to seek more legal and cultural equality of the genders. Women are treated like children for the large part. They are seen as vulnerable, helpless, lacking in agency (that's a big one), i.e. incapable of making important decisions and also being held responsible for those decisions. Men are raised to believe they're supposed to protect, shelter, and provide for women, even die for them if it comes to it. Obviously women don't receive the same respect as men in that environment. If we want a culture that respects women, we have to break out of this notion that they need to be cared for and coddled as if they're children. Instead of helping them to catch up, as if they're incapable of performing without help, we should be raising expectations.
The other side of this conversation that is alienating a lot of men from being able to relate is this idea that men have all the power. It's easy to point at Congress and show that it's male-dominated, but that's misleading. Most of men are the 99%, so to speak. Most are not in positions of power (Also, most of the men in those positions were voted in by a predominantly female voting force). Just as a tiny fraction of men are criminals and yet all men seem to get assigned the blame, a tiny fraction of men are in leadership positions, and yet all men are said to be holding tremendous power. The vast majority of men are doing crap jobs and the men who are in power don't care about them as much as they care about women, so that power is used ON BEHALF OF women, even when wielded by men. Plenty of those family judges who discriminate against other men are men who feel a duty to women! They see men as abusers or, at best, as providers of resources for women and children. They see women as helpless, vulnerable, eternal victims and needing of their manly protection.
