Occupational Issues that affect trans*people

[Cindy]

I have been asked to be a keynote speaker at a conference in Occupational Medicine.

I was a little surprised, but pleasantly so, and I have agreed. I have no issues about presenting and I have several avenues that I would like to follow.

However I would like opinion on what you think are the important issues for trans*people in the work place?

In particular for people transitioning 'on the job' what have been the issues?
For people trying to gain employment what are the issues?
Are there issues that have prevented you from transitioning 'on the job'?
What have you suffered in financial, benefit or medical terms as a trans*person in your occupation?

Any comments are welcome.

Obviously the type of work, the country and the local discrimination law are of interest.

For anyone who doesn't know I'm in Australia but I would like comments from people in all countries.

I think this is an opportunity that we as a community need to address and since it has been given we should make the most of it.

The conference is not until late 2014 but I would like to collate the information early and maybe ask more detailed questions later.

I will of course give a full report after the conference.

And I'm interested in everyone, MtF, FtM and Androgyne; a group that is at the moment ignored even in progressive places.

You can respond in this thread or by pm if you do not wish your comment to be public.

I will not identify anyone in anyway, I just want to capture information.

I would also like any humorous situations that have occurred as well as any particularly vile situations.

Thanks

Cindy

[suzifrommd]

My situation is unique, since I am a classroom teacher and am accountable not only to my employers and to my students, but also the parent community. Here (in no particular order or organization) have been my concerns:

1. There was an assumption by nearly everyone that I would want to change schools. A general assumption that when a woman transitions, she will want to change locations too. Not true for me. I have only every taught in my school, all my professional contacts are there, and I have a deep commitment to it. People keep asking me stuff like "what made you want to come back" as if I left to go away somewhere and and decided not to stay, instead of just living the same life and presenting and dressing differently.

I think if there hadn't been an anti-discrimination law protecting gender expression, I would have been transferred summarily. In fact everyone I spoke to at my union told me to count on it.

2. There were blatant attempts at controlling how I communicated my transition:
* My principal told me not to talk about it. He had no right to do that. I told him I wasn't comfortable with that - it was a part of me.
* The school system was insisting on sending a letter to all the parents of my students outing me (supposedly for my own good, so they would know how to "act"). I told them I didn't want that and they said they would do it without my consent. Only a late night discussion between lawyers prevented the letter from going out the net day.
* The equity officer for my school system (and my idiotic union rep) kept making the request that I address a full meeting of the staff and publicly come out. I couldn't get anyone to see how uncomfortable that would be.

3.  The bathroom issue. The lawyer for my employer told me that "women will not want you in their restroom if you don't have the same genitals." I was too speechless to point out the absurdity of this remark. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to ask "how would they know?" Employers need to understand that transwomen have been using ladies' rooms across the world millions of times a day without incident.

4. The name change has been harrowing:
* Getting my name changed on my email took a call to the chief technical officer for the school system. The lower-downs all told me it couldn't be changed independently of the school system's records, which couldn't be changed without a legal name change.
* Even a legal name change turned out to be insufficient to changed all records. My paychecks still had to be in my old name until my name on my social security records is corrected.
* All this happened weeks ago. I still haven't gotten my name change on my insurance card - my carrier says that's got to come from the HR department at work, who haven't done what they need to do apparently. I had to pay out of pocket for a prescription that is covered under the policy I pay a fortune for, because the pharmacy wouldn't take an insurance card where the name didn't match the prescription. An offer to produce proof of name change didn't help.
*  My name and gender appears on the web in many places, including a place called RateMyTeacher.com, where I am outed both by previous comments referring to my old gender and by newer comments referring to my "sex change". I have no recourse, because they are not related to me by employment and do not remove comments at the request of teachers.

I hope this helps, Cindy. I realize a lot of it is specific to my profession, but  I bet a lot of people's experiences would be.

[gentle]

I am 19 years old, FTM in southeast Alabama. I have worked at two establishments in the past year and a half. The first was a pet supply warehouse called Jeffers. During the two months I was there, I was asked by the warehouse manager to use the women's restrooms rather than the men's, because other employees may not be comfortable with it. I was also not allowed to learn to operate a forklift, which the manager told me was because I had not been there long enough, but another employee told me that they would rather have men do it. The second job I had was at Wal-Mart floor worker helping customers and keeping the shelves need. When I began working there, I learned that the company's anti-discrimination policy included gender preference, which I soon found out was not enforced in that particular store. Before I was given a name badge, I asked that my chosen name (Charlie) could be used, and if not that, I asked that AJ, my first and middle initials, could be used since it is ambiguous, but was told that I had to use the name on my birth certificate, which I feel was bogus. I was told to use the women's restroom here as well because I might upset the poor fragile straight people. I can tell you it upset some of the customers just as much when they saw a young male employee leaving a women's restroom that there daughter or wife was in. On top of that, I was told that I couldn't wear khaki shorts, which is acceptable attire for male employees, because according to the dress code females may only wear capris or  full-length pants. Both jobs caused me extreme frustration which ended with me quitting. Gender preference or identification is not included in any anti-discrimination or anti-hate crime policy in the state of Alabama.

[big kim]

I was a bus driver for 10 years,I had 3 days sick in 11 years working for the company,had never been late and had 1 accident in 4 years that wasn't my fault.I was passed over 5 times for an Inspector's job despite being told I had an exemplary record and once for a driving instructors's job.I became disillusioned and after 2 assaults(lost the first fight,made sure I won the 2nd one!) I went off with stress and depression and never went back.

[HelenW]

When I transitioned at work in 2007 (Jamestown, NY, USA), I had to wait a month between the time that my name change became official and going full time at work.  It turned out that my employer had decided they needed  to build a special single stall rest room for my use and it took that long to get it done.

In my ignorance I agreed to use that restroom exclusively for the first three months after my transition.  That turned out to be an error on my part.  The three month mark came and went and I had no way of initiating the change.  I was stuck.

Now that I'm older and wiser (lol) - in hindsight of course - I realize that my employer's idea of building a separate restroom wasn't a bad one.  The error was that I did not insist the special restroom be designated for the women who were too prejudiced to pee in the stall next to me.  My error was in accepting their assignment as an "other" when those who wanted to discriminate against me should have been the ones to be marginalized.

(Un)fortunately, I was let go due to downsizing with 18 other people 4 months after I transitioned at work so the bathroom issue was never really settled.

I hope this helps, Cindy!  If you do write up a report, perhaps you could ask Renate to publish it in our Wiki to help our future community.

hugs & smiles
Helen

[Bea]

I am in my late 30's and have transitioned in the industrial/electrical field that I have been working in for almost 2 decades. I pass ok, partially because of my size and higher voice ... I work in the field for dozen's of repeat clients, usually hospitals, prisons, banks, government and military.

The issues I have experienced so far:

- Most of my coworkers and customers don't care because they don't have to deal with me, I work on my own everyday.

- The bathroom issue is easy, I'm on the road most of the time so I stop at a safe place and use the ladies room. There is only one other cis-gender woman in our office that doesn't mind me using the ladies room there.

- My coworkers don't care, so they slip all the time and call me dude, or he, or sometimes introduce me to clients as "he" or "him"

- Existing clients were surprised to see me "as the new me", some call me "she or Her", and some call me "he or sir"

- New clients are very kind and rarely miss-gender me, almost always call me by the correct name, she, her, etc...

- My employer ordered me men's shirts, not ladies shirts, even after I asked twice.

My advise in the workplace: (common sense and good advise for anyone really).

- is to always learn something new, stay up to date and be marketable, be friendly and humble.

- Smile  when a good client calls you sir (or otherwise miss genders you) and shakes you hand firmly. Wait until your not upset, and in a one and one setting to correct the client regarding your gender.

- Imagine what your company would think about you if they began to lose clients...not good...

- Don't bitch about stupid ->-bleeped-<- like the bathroom, or personal transition issues to anyone at work - ever!

- Contact your HR department with only good news, be cheerful, and know that they are not really on your side.

- If you have to contact HR with bad news or the like, make sure you email your boss and give them a chance to fix it first.

- Make sure your coworkers and management know how much you love your job, seriously!

- Smile, smile, smile, and be happy, you wanted this transition right?

- If you can, like I did, I ordered women's shirts with my own cash from the company store.

- Don't try to transition at work without an updated identification card or driver's license and Social Security Card.

Hopefully my jibber jabber above will make it's way to one's eye's or ears and I can save someone from losing their job.

((Hugs))

[Cindy]

Thank you for the great replies so far.

One thing that does come through is the nature of the discrimination laws in different countries. In Australia if I am discriminated against, I don't have to do any more than report it to the Ant-discrimination commission and they will mount the legal process -if mediation is unsuccessful. However the threat of goal and a large fine tends to make companies rather keen to correct intransigent co-workers from expressing their prejudice. Indeed in one case that I was peripheral in, somewhat similar to Kim's experience the company fired everyone except the trans*woman who was involved in the incident. It is legal to fire the instigators of discrimination and illegal to fire the victim.

Suzi, a close friend is a teacher and has been at the same school throughout her transition, the support for her has been massive from students, staff and parents. I just wish it was the same for you. IMO a good teacher is a blessed person who needs support no matter their gender or sexuality.

Toilets are interesting, the one case that I was asked to intervene and counsel on was such a situation with a trans*woman, when I clearly explained that the people concerned had not a leg to stand on , pun not meant , they backed down immediately. But toilets seem to be an issue in society generally but as Breanne said, how in the goddess name does anyone know what genitals are in the next stall? And what does it matter?

Helen, I intend to give the entire presentation to Renate after I have presented (late 2014). On a personal note, nice to meet you Helen

I need to explain a little of the background. I have no idea why I was suggested as a speaker although I'm not in stealth but I don't carry a banner either. The person who approached me said that when he raised the subject that his female colleague on the organizing committee asked him why he wanted a discussion on occupational medicine for sex workers. As far as she knew, or was aware, trans*people are sex workers, she had not a clue that trans*men exist. In a country as progressive as Australia I found it alarming that members of the medical community had that thought.
It was the main reason I agreed to present. But I did start to feel that I was the 'pin-up' trans*woman, and I am uncomfortable with that. I'm just a woman living her life.

I was wondering if people who do post can say which country they are in, and are they and if their employers were/are aware and active or not in explaining local anti-discrimination laws (if they exist) to their employees when you transitioned?

It is most unlikely that any of us will directly benefit, but I do not want our young people to go through what we have gone through, I do it for them.

Seemingly I will get a fee for this, guess which site it is going too! So we will benefit.

Oh, I have I told you people that I love you?

Hugs

Cindy

[Ms Grace]

I probably won't be transitioning full time until April at the earliest. I work for a small but well known community NGO, only about 20 staff but 80% female (soon to be 85% )... I've been there for almost 15 years now and despite the exposure my transition there will likely give me I intend to stay on.

I've told the big boss, my direct supervisor and a close female colleague all have been completely supportive. Given the type of organisation we are I would certainly hope so. Our enterprise agreement spells out non-discrimination on, amongst other things, gender identity. Even so, I'll be using a service provided by the gender centre in Sydney that does outreach to work places... I expect most people at work will be OK with my change but a couple, from conservative migrant backgrounds, might struggle.

If April-June isn't too late for your paper Cindy I'd love to contribute my experiences.

[Sammy]

Cheers Cindy! I can send You several reports on issues regarding combating discrimination against the whole LGBT spectrum in the states of the Council of Europe - they are actually publicly available, but You must know where to look for - the soft-laws issued by the Committee of Ministers, country reports, follow-up questionaires and summary of the replies from the states (I can even provide our report, because I participated in its drafting, lol) . Let me know if You are interested and an e-mail address .

[Ltl89]

My situation is a bit different, so forgive me if it isn't what you are looking for.  I'm still presenting male at work at the moment, but everyone knows I'm different.  My supervisor knows and one of my best friends' mothers work there.  So there are two people with definite knowledge about my transition.  Also my friend used to work there himself, so I imagine people know he has a trans friend.  Plus, I don't look or act like a typical guy in any way.  And to throw more on top, they all know I'm going to a bridal shower for my friend's wedding and no one was surprised.

Right now things are going well.  Most of my female co-workers seem to get along with me, but I am reluctant to open up.  Honestly, they are all very welcoming and probably would be really cool about it, but I don't want to rock the boat.  Sometimes I feel pressured to act more manly even though there is no reason to feel that way.  It's hard to explain.  The fear is mainly internal as the environment is very welcoming.   But I'm scared to be too feminine or allow people to see the real me.  That says more about me than anyone else.  And it impacts my interactions with co-workers to the point that I feel it's harder to make personal connections.  I almost just want to scream I'm trans, so I can get it out of the way and start moving forward.  The people I work with are pretty friendly and open from what I have seen, so it shouldn't be an issue.  They are just incredibly stressed and look burned out which I understand.  I guess they just want anyone to help relieve the workload trans or not. 

[peky]

Hi, Cindy,

I work for a very large company, about 100,000 employees, with world-wide interests. I am one of the top scientific advisors, and as such I "wear many hats." I transitioned on the job and stayed with the company. Fortunately for me the company had a written GLBT policy.

I notified my decision to stop pretending to be a male to my immediate supervisor in person, later on the HR folks were notified via my Division Head. I provided them with some documentation. The change of name and gender marker went without a hitch. Soon after the changes were executed, the CEO sent a company-wide email (including some outside key partners and costumers) saying: "I am happy to welcome "Peky," .... as you know Peky has been with us for so many years, etc., ...she is going to continue to do...... I expect everybody to continue to support Peky in her duties as .... If you have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact Mr. Doe at HR"

The issue of the bathroom was never brought up, and I yet have to experience an "issue" with it. I do try to use the less commonly used toilettes outside the usual "rush hours" ... you know  after breakfast and lunch..LOL

So far so good....

In general, I have experience hostility from some of the old male coworkers in the company, who have known me and called themselves my friend for over 20 years!  They have ignored me, and look at me with disdain...well, they have received the same treatment in return...

In a day-to-day management activities, I have encounter disrespect from some of the support staff, like not addressing me with the usual respect my position demands... a terse reminder of what is at stake for them has  ensures an "attitude change."

When marketing...I had some costumers surprised by the "lady with the deep voice"

When down the field, which means interacting with young "hot shoots," I had had to "pull rank" more often than when I was pretending to be male...

In the laboratories,  things have been  easier as I interact with young highly-intellectual scientist and engineers who respect you for your "know how" and "know why" rather than for your physical attributes...

I do not know how much of the above statements are just my perceptions and how much is reality, and more important I wonder sometimes how much is due to the transgender-issue and how much is just to because I am woman

There is one more thing, and that is that I often travel outside the USA, and wherever I go, I always seem to get attention from men and women, children and old alike...how much is due to my stunning looks, or my accent, or my demeanor (I am an alpha-bitch-on-wheels) I do not know....LOL

In summary...in my "neck of the woods" the TG-related issues at work seem to be related to age or educational status, meaning the older generations and the uneducated folks seem unable or unwilling to accept or tolerate my transgenderness....

Before I leave, one more vexing thing, the self-righteous religious types...you find them everywhere... no hope for them

Having said all of the above, as a good "->-bleeped-<--than-thou" I do not let anything or anybody get the best of me...I am happy and sleep very well at nigh...with my pistol under my pillow just the same..- LOL

[Cindy]

Peky your experience is useful, as are everyone else's.

Does seniority have an influence?

[peky]

Does seniority have an influence?

Of course it does, you do not earn a seniority without having accumulated some "political capital." Over the years you build a fellowship of mutual support with some of your coworkers, kind like lets promote each other, lets watch each other backs, etc. You help people in their personal and professional career, you make them feel good,,,and all these builds into a good will and likeness...

In the near future I think it will be easy for the younger folks because they will benefit of the "precedents" ... I am the third one to transition in my Division ( 7,000 people)  in the last ten years.....plus as the older generation dies or retires a more tolerant generation will take over....time is on our side!!!

[Rachel]

I have not presented female at work. I changed my cloths to add color and style and my hair is growing and at my collar now. I will decide if May 28, 2014 is my disclosure at work date as I continue to work out personal issues. I hope this to be the date.

I am in management and report to a Senior VP. My employer has 14,000 employees and 14 disclosed trans* to HR. I would estimate female to male ratio 90/10. I work in Phila, PA. and we have a LGBT policy at work.

I have disclosed to my Senior VP, HR Manager, Benefits and my Operations Manger and one Consultant.

Consultant, very supportive and truly a special person. I discuss everything with her and she is great. We speak monthly and e-mail monthly.

Ops Manager, very good, does not want to know my name and has only twice referred to me a Mam. I discuss a lot with him and he is very receptive . We speak daily and e-mail on weekends.

HR Senior Member, I disclosed to her a fair amount of surface information but I am guarded and I did not go deep. She got emotional and there was no need for both of us crying. Spoke to her one time.

Benefits Manager, very supportive and informative, an obvious ally. We spoke one time. She wanted to know if I wanted a neutral bathroom installed by my work place. Now I know why there are neutral bathrooms at work.

Boss, I speak to monthly officially one on one, weekly with his direct reports and at random . He has some very sexist views and even said I can not think like and Engineer of HRT and then gave specific reasons and examples of women. There are a lot of issues as a result my disclosure such as assignments and expectations. I have lost a lot of respect in his eyes. He can not look at me if a LGBTI subject is raised. He is somewhat dismissive on Engineering subjects now.


Overall my staff have noticed my change since on HRT and love the new me. I have gotten a lot of really nice comments. I love working with the guys and they are truly family. I was doing exactly what I want to do in life, professionally. Now I want to go back to school (at night) and learn another profession ( all due from the bad role models on Susan's  ) .

[JLT1]

Pecky!   Glad to see your back!!!
Cindy,
My experience, thus far, sounds like the start of Pecky's; to the point that we could practically work for the same company.  (We don't but really similar)  I'm with a multinational that employs some 88,000 people worldwide (2012 stats).  I'm a senior scientist who interacts with regulatory authorities, coordinates and directs studies, and works with manufacturing facilities world-wide (little customer contact).  The rest, same.  I have been here for 17 years.  We have a transition policy, there have been no problems.  People are accepting and in my case, relieved because I have changed so much since starting the process and transition explains why I'm all of the sudden a nice person.  I am not completely out yet and I'm not an alpha on wheels.  I simply fix what-ever problem needs to be fixed.  I have had one co-worker who likes to cause me problems every time I leave for more than a week.  But that's about it.
Where I have had problems is with medical doctors. And those problems have affected work. Wow, the problems I've had with them.  The metro area here is two different cities that grew together.  One city is very conservative and shuns transgenders, the other is very liberal and accepting.  I live on the conservative side because it is close to work and I have a great house with great views and easy access to major roads. I had to find a new general practitioner, a new urologist, a new cardiologist and a new back surgeon. Now, I'm going to have to find a new orthopedic group.
I am tall at 6'1" and with my small bone structure; as a woman, I should weigh around 160 lbs (70 kg).  While trying to a man, I worked out quite a bit and carried 210 lbs (96 kg) with little body fat.  I also tended to do things that were somewhat risky or even dangerous.  As a result of my behavior, I have had 11 surgeries and broken 29 bones (not counting fingers and toes) over the past 30 years.  I have been working with an orthopedic group for several years now and they are very, very good.  They have a small ER room and doctors who are you primary orthopedic that coordinates activities with surgeons who do nothing but specific body parts: ankles, knees, shoulders, wrists, backs and such.  They are also owned by the same system where my endo for transition practices.  Normally, I could go in with a broken bone or some torn cartilage, get right into my primary, off to an MRI on site and if necessary, into the surgeon within a couple of days.  Once I got the transgender label stuck on my chart, I have become a persona non grata.  A recent example:
I was up at the lake in June and was loading a swim platform onto a trailer so I could put it in for the season.  As I was pushing it on, I stepped wrong while holding a few hundred pounds and broke my ankle. I was wearing boots that laced up to mind-calf and they were tight so I could at least still move.  I drove back to the cities (3 million metro area) and went to the emergency orthopedic center as they have ALL my records and hey, they are good.  The center took three views by x-ray and decided because the fracture was not clear and that I could still walk; it was just a serious spring and sent me home.  A week later, I went to the medical facility on-site at my company's headquarters and they were shocked – swollen, obvious internal bleeding and they took x-rays.  The doctor was uncomfortable making a call that disagreed with a rather prestigious orthopedic center and sent the x-rays off to a contract radiologist.  Four days later, the radiologist contacted me saying there was a break in it and instructed me to go back to the orthopedic center.  For some reason, I couldn't get into the orthopedic center (even with another doctor referring me) for six weeks and when I finally did get in, they ignored the second set of x-rays and just reviewed the first.  They decided the ankle wasn't broke and that I should "man-up".  Two weeks later, a new appointment at the center and the same response – just give it time – your bodies changing because you're are a man taking estrogen.  Four weeks later, a new appointment and the doctor agreed to send me to consult with a surgeon to "make me feel better".  I met with the surgeon three weeks after that who basically talked about my having a low pain threshold and there probably wasn't a break in the ankle but they would get a CT scan of the ankle if that would make me feel better.  I got it done that night and the following morning the surgeon's assistant called me saying I needed to get in there immediately because there were multiple breaks and my continuing to walk on it was causing significant tendon damage.  When I did see the surgeon, he starred at the floor, apologized and said that he would fix the ankle.
Two days ago, four and one-half months after the initial break, I was in the facility for 8 hours or so and in the OR from 11:20-2:30.  I'm at home on my couch with my ankle up on this foam leg holder, blocked with ice. What should have been a quick cast followed by a month or so in a "boot" has turned into 4 months of pain with every step, 10 days on my back, 5 additional weeks in a boot and two months of physical therapy.  Plus, I haven't been able to work out to lose weight, I haven't been able to dance much with my wife or even practice dancing as a woman rather than a man and I really have had a rather poor attitude.  Not the mention the money spent in repeated visits, a surgery and a long time to come in physical therapy.  All because of the word "Transgender" on my chart. 
So, how has this affected work?  If you had an employee who has been running around on a broken ankle for four months, do you believe they would be performing at their best?  After all the doctor's appointments with no results, would that employee maintain credibility?  After this time, now that I am on my back, would you be happy that they are missing from work?  How would you feel, once they came back and informed you they would be missing 6 hours a week for physical therapy? Somehow, some way, I am at fault for something if for no other reason than why didn't I go somewhere else?  (Answer, see the doctors I have lost.  I could not find a good transgender friendly ankle surgeon. So, there is that transgender thing again.) 

[Antonia J]

One of the items I am thinking through is dilation post surgery.  Finding time to do it and the privacy for several times per day sounds challenging.  How do employers accommodate this?

[JLT1]

Apologies for my rant...I got a little carried away. I had to go off E prior to surgery and am not supposed to go back on it for another two weeks.  

I guess that part of what I was trying to say is that even when the employer is wonderful and the people we work with are wonderful, there will be problems, particularly when we first start to transition and then once we come out.  My employer has been fantastic about letting me take time off for medical reasons that are only indirectly related to my transition.  They gave me flex time: time to find a transgender general practitioner, time to get copies of medical records from doctors who would not send them, time to do what I needed to do that I couldn't get done outside of business hours.  I routinely bring work home so that I can get everything done. So yes, there are some really weird problems that we have to deal with but when work needs me to go the extra distance to solve a problem; I'm there for them as well. 

[Cindy]

Of course it does, you do not earn a seniority without having accumulated some "political capital." Over the years you build a fellowship of mutual support with some of your coworkers, kind like lets promote each other, lets watch each other backs, etc. You help people in their personal and professional career, you make them feel good,,,and all these builds into a good will and likeness...

In the near future I think it will be easy for the younger folks because they will benefit of the "precedents" ... I am the third one to transition in my Division ( 7,000 people)  in the last ten years.....plus as the older generation dies or retires a more tolerant generation will take over....time is on our side!!!

I was thinking the reverse. As senior people is it more difficult to be truly accepted, rather than accepted because you are 'the boss'?

[peky]

I was thinking the reverse. As senior people is it more difficult to be truly accepted, rather than accepted because you are 'the boss'?

Well, in every case you look at it, you can always find the "am I truly accepted," or are they pretending to accept me because established policy?

I guess I need to ask you what is you operational definition of "acceptance"

[suzifrommd]

I just came back from a "benefits open house" where the two health insurance carriers were available to answer questions about their plans.

I asked each of them whether there was a problem if someone had both male and female body parts (e.g. prostate and breasts) and wanted health care for both.

Neither of them could answer this question. Both told me they had to get back to me.