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being labled as gay?

Started by kg85621, October 22, 2013, 11:05:02 AM

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Danielle Emmalee

Quote from: kabit on November 04, 2013, 04:18:25 PM
Who says anyone's faking anything?

Not only is this conversation fairly offensive in tone (and some of the things that were said), but it's also very gender binary. Everything I've seen on Susan's 'til now has been fairly open to everyone and not against certain segments of the trans* population (as I personally feel this conversation has been taken).

Masculinity and femininity? We were taught one and some (not all) lived in that world for a time... we need to learn the other - which comes easily to some, more difficultly to others. We are similar, but each of us is in a completely different place from the others. I suggest we try to help and learn from each other.

Maybe I'm reading this the wrong way... mods?

I'm pretty sure everyone is talking about faking in terms of trying to act like their assigned gender while still in the closet, not faking in terms of "You were born male, so if you act female, you are faking"
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
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Danielle Emmalee

Also I'm just assuming I'm misinterpreting Sibila's posts as offensive...if they mean what I'm interpreting, then yes, very offensive.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Sammy

Quote from: Sybil on November 04, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
It's the same for me, haha.

Faking stereotypical masculinity:
-Stay monotone.
-Use lots of words like "nah," "man," and "dude." Anything that makes you seem aloof.
-Talk in commands and absolutes. Use terms like "absolutely," "definitely," "no question."
-Use as little facial expression as possible, unless it's negative facial expression (furrow eyebrows, grimacing, squinting, glaring). Avoid smiling at all costs.
-Be loud.
-Try not to use your hands much when you talk, and if you do, avoid much wrist movement.
-Take up as much space as possible.

To be honest, I find this really hard to keep up over a long period of time, especially if I'm concentrating on something else in a conversation. I also have a feeling that any actual men reading this would think I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Stereotypes are boring :) But so are the average stereotypical guys. I mostly picked all my stuff from books and movies - watching how protagonists reacted to various situations and just copy-pasting and applying to my case :). The issues appeared when I started to run into situations outside "of the book" and then I had to improvise thinking "what X would do if...?". Mostly it was kinda fun, but at times it went desperate and frustrating (mostly, when I started digging in why I cant comprehend apparently simple truths and why I hate being in the boys locker room after the sports class).
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Sibila

Quote from: Nikko on November 04, 2013, 03:58:28 PM
Sure you were. From the moment we're born we're socialized to be our physical gender. It comes from every possible direction and source... parents, siblings, school, strangers, friends, television, etc.

Its a strong believe amongst transwoman that nurture is all and nature is nothing, which is NOT true.
We are in fact the only one's that can really know that (from experience).

I was and am typically feminine in many ways and nobody taught me that. Its simply just the way I am... despite the way I was raised.
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Lauren5

Quote from: Kelly the Post-Trans-Rebel on November 04, 2013, 04:20:00 PMI never wanted to be a woman - I always was one.
Pretty much the general trans attitude there. Took me a while to tell myself that I am not a man wanting to be a woman, but truly am a woman, who just happened to have the unfortunate instance of being born with a man's body, and the hormones that go with it.
Hey, you've reached Lauren's signature! If you have any questions, want to talk, or just need a shoulder to cry on, leave me a message, and I'll get back to you.
*beep*

Full time: 12/12/13
Started hormones: 26/3/14
FFS: No clue, winter/spring 2014/15 maybe?
SRS: winter/spring 2014/15?
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Danielle Emmalee

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on in this topic..

Either that or I'm just oblivious to what is going on lol
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Sammy

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 04:25:41 PM
I was and am typically feminine in many ways and nobody taught me that. Its simply just the way I am... despite the way I was raised.

Which is very curious and strange. I have no explanations for this. I can only attest that there are things which have never been taught to me and yet, they just come out naturally - if I let them to. Perhaps, this is just an experience we all have for decades watching women being around us? Could this be so simple? :)
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Sibila

Quote from: Chaos on November 04, 2013, 04:04:29 PM
The woman hated me and the men used me/abused me.So im sure you could imagine,the only ones i could be around were men who seen me as some freak (though i didnt know anything yet) but they just knew something was wrong with me and they seen it as the perfect chance.with not knowing and all the bad things in my life,i ended up hitting a low time in my life where i tried to kill myself but still didnt know why-why it hurt so bad,why i had no want for anything or lived in a black hole.I always told people that *it feels like im living in a 3rd diminsion and no idea how to get back to earth/reality

Well you might not expect it, but I could have written what you wrote above.

Quote from: Chaos on November 04, 2013, 04:04:29 PMIt seems you have alot of inner struggle,trying to reform or hoping to reform to be something your not.Its also NOT about being something your not,someone your not or even regrets on how you wish things could be/couldnt be a certain way.Its about doing what you can here and now,to make life worth living as WHO you are.So what if a woman has slightly bigger feet,i see it as a beautiful woman with bigger feet and they say ALOT about her.She has walked MILES on those feet,rough and broken skin from how far she has come,that alone is beautiful.Let go of the negatives and get up! stand up on those feet and tell society and its ideas,that you will not reform and that you will be YOU-even if that means roughing up those feet even more.And encourage other people like you,to do the exact same thing.

I am not trying to be someone I am not. I am trying to not be someone I am not.
Mentally, I am not a transwoman... I am not a man... If I could have a feminine body tommorow, most of my problems would be gone.
I simply cannot live my life as a woman when I am constantly denied that.
I dont enjoy being myself. Because I need others to be myself with. I get a lot of energy when someone treats me as a female... but I lose even more when the opposite happens.
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Chaos

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 10:46:53 AM
IT DOES because you CANNOT fake MASCULINITY! I was VERY creative and always wanted to become an actor. Everyone acknowledged my talent as a kid. So why did I not succeed in pretending to be a boy? Why did I not cope.

And why did they cope??? They were MASCULINE and AUTHENTIC MALES ! Even if they want to be woman. That does not make you a woman!
Most woman do not even want to be woman and look at us with suprise.

I simply cannot and do not believe them... I simply cant. I know that that might hurt others... but it is the truth though.

What good is masculinity and femininity when it is faked? you do not know the full extent and power of the human spirit and its ways of *doing what it needs to for the sake of another* and most of us had to *fake* being our born gender to make people happy/hoping it will pass/its all a dream--.But allow me to explain something in a respectful manner.

1) my body does not define me.This took me 20 years of pain and suffering,put downs to realize alone.When i knew that even my female body wasnt worth having.I was in NO way,shape or form-A WOMAN.And everyday that body breaks down,falling apart at the base.Will i *still* be a woman once everything is gone? or is there more to a humans existence then what we SEE? i guess thats up to you to decide which mentality YOU have.

2) Someone elses events/situations/actions-is NOT your own.You are strong in your own way,if you wish to be but NEVER tell another that theirs is wrong/not done right/unacceptable.Deal with you first and THEN you can be wise enough to deal with someone else.

3) it is YOUR truth but not a universal truth.I only speak of my OWN experiences and opinions but i can NOT tell anyone else what the truth is for them and theirs.Compassion for your common man/human,should come above everything else.

Oh btw-i AM an actual man :)

All Thing's Come With A Price...
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V M

Hi friends  :police:

Let's watch some of the wording and make sure to not be venturing into rule 10 violation territory 

Quote
10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others

Thank you

V M
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Sibila

Quote from: <3 on November 04, 2013, 04:23:00 PM
Also I'm just assuming I'm misinterpreting Sibila's posts as offensive...if they mean what I'm interpreting, then yes, very offensive.

They are not meant to offend. But they are probably offensive though. But we are all offended by different things.
I am offended by things people tell me here too. But perhaps you do not really understand WHY it offends me... it may seem
unacceptable to you that I am honest.

But if I cant be honest. What is the use of having a discussion. I am happy that I got a few responses. And few are really lovely.

For instance the reply from Chaos moved me...

Thank you.
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Chaos

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 04:32:52 PM
Well you might not expect it, but I could have written what you wrote above.

I am not trying to be someone I am not. I am trying to not be someone I am not.
Mentally, I am not a transwoman... I am not a man... If I could have a feminine body tommorow, most of my problems would be gone.
I simply cannot live my life as a woman when I am constantly denied that.
I dont enjoy being myself. Because I need others to be myself with. I get a lot of energy when someone treats me as a female... but I lose even more when the opposite happens.

Then THAT is how you need to accept yourself and handle yourself,if thats your mentality.Because regardless if another person decides they want to act a fool,does that change who you are? no,so why allow such things to bring you to this point? when you focus that energy inward then you keep yourself strong,preventing anyone from taking from you.that means its time to stop letting people do that.Even if your body does not fit-that doesnt mean that *we* change.We still wake up who we are but we have to be comfortable and accept our selves for WHO we are,that includes the down sides.
All Thing's Come With A Price...
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Sibila

Quote from: <3 on November 04, 2013, 04:36:06 PM
Well I can pretty much guarantee that my femininity did not come from socialization or from watching women around me....I didn't think I was a girl, I wasn't told not to do things that boys shouldn't do or told to do things because that's what boy's should do, and yet, I was feminine since before I could talk...just naturally...

Exactly, me 2.
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amZo

Quote from: <3 on November 04, 2013, 04:27:15 PM
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on in this topic..

Either that or I'm just oblivious to what is going on lol

Thank goodness, I'm glad it wasn't just me that felt this way.  :D
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Chaos

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 04:36:59 PM
For instance the reply from Chaos moved me...

Thank you.

Im glad it did and i hope to see you growing with us.
All Thing's Come With A Price...
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Danielle Emmalee

Honest and strongly opinionated aren't the same unless you use the words "in my opinion" or something similar.  People here can be sensitive and take things personally and its only right, since it is a support site, to remember that.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Sammy

Quote from: <3 on November 04, 2013, 04:36:06 PM
Well I can pretty much guarantee that my femininity did not come from socialization or from watching women around me....I didn't think I was a girl, I wasn't told not to do things that boys shouldn't do or told to do things because that's what boy's should do, and yet, I was feminine since before I could talk...just naturally...

Then, apparently it all is way more complicated than I was thinking :). Hmmmm.... Are You, by any chance, Zodiacal Pisces or Cancer? :)

On a totally different topic... I wonder if I will wake up tomorrow morning and see this thread locked for some reason (instantly knowing that I had missed the fun part :) )
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Sybil

I'll do my best to answer your reply in a more direct way.

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 02:56:57 PM
Nobody teached me to be a boy. It would have been easier if anyone did at that time. You are simply expected to be and act as a boy. But its not as simple as copying behavior. More so, it is trying to hide all natural behavior that is feminine. And trying to act masculine, right? I did not succeed at both while I was great at acting. I did supress my identity completely at age 4. What is wrong with me? Why couldn't I do what most others did?
Everyone is different. You really may have just had trouble with it. My personal example goes like this: I was very effeminate up until age 12. Family and peer bullying made me try harder to be masculine from 13 to 18. I actually made some friends this way, but was depressed and never fully successful at fitting in with boys. I caused a lot of drama and became too attached to certain friends. I gave up again when I was 19 until now and dropped the masculinity act.

However, if I had been masculine -- or one step further, successfully masculine -- the entire time without acting or trying, it wouldn't have made me any less valid as a woman, because it wouldn't have made any cis girl less valid as a woman.

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 02:56:57 PM
I did not say that, however if you are a straight feminine girl at heart and want the normal life as a woman, you will have a hard time doing that as trans. Most men dont even bother dating me when they know. The one's that do watch ->-bleeped-<- porn and again expect me to be some kind of boy and dominate them. Its very hard to find that guy that really treats you like a woman and who is dominant/masculine and caring. Those guys dont fall for transwoman... because they like WOMAN.

A trans is a deformaty to them. Not to mention that I cant start a family (which is another reason why its hard to be in a normal relationship). That, next to all the trouble with the masculine features in your body? And people associating you with men and the transwoman I mentioned. What is there to enjoy about being a woman? The clothes? The make up? I wish I did not have to mind how I dress. If I was a genetic woman, I would wear masculine clothes because they are way easier. I cant now because it ruins my passability.

And even when you do find a boyfriend. Its hard to find one that does not care that other people can see you are trans. When a man is insecure about that how will my feminine need be fulfilled... like the need to feel that a boyfriend is proud of me. Wants to be seen with me, and show me off. For example. But its there in a million things that you will notice that you are a woman, but not treated as such.
I don't feel this is true. I can personally attest to several men who have been interested in me, despite my downstairs, who do not particularly care for that configuration. They loved my personality and thought I was an amazing investment. There have also been men who were okay with what I had down there but would also be okay afterwards. There are even more who are not okay with it now, but really want me to look into them again when it's gone. The majority of these men have been extremely fun, intelligent, well-balanced people. Many of them have said they would not be ashamed of me. Several of them are my closest friends who I have known since I was a teenager. A handful of them are men who were offensively naive about trans people and had to be educated first.

I haven't had FFS. I'm not really passable. I'm overweight. I dress neutrally. A lot of this is about personality and what potential a man sees in you.

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 02:56:57 PM
Perhaps my need differ very much from other transwoman, and those needs and desires are my problem. Genetic woman understand my needs exactly though, because they are their needs to.


Of course... I would love to be a woman, if I was a woman. And If I was a genetic woman... I could pretend that its important to be regarded as a human first. In the position I am in now... being human, means nothing to me. You might as well call me male.
I understand the needs. I think about them all the time. I daydream about them and have actual dreams about them. Men are one of the things I think about most. I talk to my cis best friend about men and what we want from them really, really often. It's a great source of frustration in my life, but the reason I'm not in a relationship is entirely of my own devices. I'm waiting until after I get FFS and possibly SRS so that -I- am less insecure, not the man I'd be with. Whatever the case, it's definitely not the fault of men as a whole.

Quote from: Sibila on November 04, 2013, 02:56:57 PMAlso I dont know exactly in what world you live. But its hard for genetic woman (perhaps even downright impossible) to understand the hardship of a transwoman. In fact, you might end up with them saying that you had the privilege to be male. And I can understand that. Its exactly the same way I think about a lot of transwoman.
They seem so lucky compared to the stuff I had to go through and still go though. It never stops.
I do think it's hard for cis women to understand trans women, but not impossible. I've also had some bring up male privilege to me and try to tell me that I couldn't understand, or that I don't know what I'm in for. This is really just ignorant banter. I don't believe in the concept of adversity ownership, where an individual who has not suffered a particular type of adversity can never understand it. Human beings have the capacity to empathize and apply relativity -- it's not simple, no, but it is more than possible, and assuming it isn't possible from the get-go certainly does not help at all.

Genuinely, I wish you were not in so much turmoil over this subject. I've been through all of the insecurities, the worries, and the feeling less valid than cis women. I've worried about men and how they see me. I've worried about how valid I might be. It's an awful, awful collection of feelings, but a lot of them are founded in silly things. Despite still being stuck in uncomfortable stages of transition, life has shown me that none of those things are actually true, and I'm very hopeful for the future. I hope that you can reach that point, too, and that you don't have to forever carry such a burden.
Why do I always write such incredibly long posts?
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Danielle Emmalee

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on November 04, 2013, 04:42:45 PM
Then, apparently it all is way more complicated than I was thinking :). Hmmmm.... Are You, by any chance, Zodiacal Pisces or Cancer? :)

On a totally different topic... I wonder if I will wake up tomorrow morning and see this thread locked for some reason (instantly knowing that I had missed the fun part :) )

.....Cancer.....why?
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Sammy

Quote from: <3 on November 04, 2013, 04:49:16 PM
.....Cancer.....why?

And You are asking me? :) :) :)
Oh well, jokes aside, I am a firm believer that Water signs have some inherently enhanced femininity in them, which is seen as a blessing in females and somewhat diminishing quality in males. Being a Piscean female, I very much can attest to this, but I would not dare to argue that this is a reason why we know things we never learned. Unless, Sibila (sorry for confusion) would confide with us and confirm that she too is either Pisces or Cancer (I am not mentioning Scorpios, because most of those that I have met have a lot of ... issues going on in their heads...)
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