Passing or just being educated and mindful?

[Apples Mk.II]

I just don't know... It's day #17, and as usual I don't think I pass. My face has seriously rough factions that haven't improved, I haven't put female forms yet, and my voice is... Just a voice without resonance, as usual. Not sounding as male but not sure it pass as female.

On the phone, I'm treated as female when my future name is known or I call for services meant for woment (I.E. making a reservationg for eyebrows waxing), but if they ask for my male name, they won't repeat again asking to be put with that person.



Yet, I have no problems on the street or interacting. I never get weird looks, I am always treated as a woman, and I always put a smile if possible. Nobody speaks to me in a "weird" mode as if their mind was saying "is this a >-bleeped-<?". I dress  and present as female as possible: Padded bras, always with make up, shoulder lenght hair with extensions covering the temples issue, and I don't think I move as a guy anymore. Maybe not completely as a a woman, yet. I've been able to use the hardest possible place: A public changing room, so that should say something.



And I still feel uneasy. Whenever I interact with somebody, whenever somebody looks at me longer than neccesary: ¿Am I passing, or they are simply being respectful with my condition? It gets on my nervers just to think. And I'm afraid of asking a question that would immediately  solve the doubt... Asking for the bathroom won't solve anything since they are always together. I've used women's dressing rooms in some shops without issues (although they've always been unisex)

[Robin Mack]

I suspect, from what you are saying, that you *are* passing.  I also suspect that, since you seem to be gaining insight from professional services people, that perhaps you need to cultivate friends, preferably CIS-female friends, with whom you can spend some time.

I've learned more about mannerisms in spending time with CIS-women than I have in endless pouring over these boards looking for tips.  It's scary, putting yourself out there... but are there any hobbies that you may have that could encourage socialization?  If you read, maybe a women's reading group.  If you like scrap-booking or other crafts, there are groups for that.  Even "traditionally male" activities like hunting and fishing have women's groups. 

I've been reading your posts for a while, and you strike me as very similar to myself in many ways, worrying about perfection before branching out into social circles.  I bless my fiancee... she has been instrumental in getting me out of the house.  Otherwise I think I would probably be hiding in my house throughout my transition, only venturing out for services I need.

*hug*

I hope you don't mind my suppositions, they come from an impression I got, nothing more... but I hope some of this might be helpful nonetheless.

[anjaq]

Not to thwart your optimism about passing but there indeed is such a thing as "pseudo passing". Recently I decided to investigate my factors a bit. I have not been asked if I was trans in a very very long time directly. Sometimes people fish a little bit, asking about my voice maybe, or if I did athletics as a teen. But nothing blunt. Then this year I had three instances where people called me a "he". I felt like I had been smacked in the face. So I asked a good friend of mine to honestly tell me how many of her friends that I have met on some occasions asked about me being trans. It was 10% that directly asked , she said. I assume it was probably a bit more as she first was about to say 20 and then corrected herself (being polite?). Plus some will just not have asked her. So really, it is hard to know that number unless you can get insider information. I guess there are some situations into which you only get when passing and some in which you only get when not passing, those can serve as hints. Like a women talking about menstrual cycles or asking a tampon of you pretty much tells you that you dont have a passing issue in that moment . But seriously - Without knowing this, I could have assumed that I was passing like >99%, but I suspected it to be more like 90% and this was confirmed - it hurts but then again it is good to know and not just suspect.

[Apples Mk.II]

Not to thwart your optimism about passing but there indeed is such a thing as "pseudo passing".

heh. That's the main source of my current uneasiness. The though that I am deluding myself into believing that I am more passable. The only times that I have had absolute proof of passing was when after showing my old ID I was asked if was picking a parcel for the person in the ID, and once in the phone when they were constantly requesting my "male persona".


Robinmack. Sorry, but every time I hear reading I'm torn between laughing and crying. Spain, probably the only country in the world where reading for the pleasure of reading is seen as a bad thing. People here won't read unless it has been forced unto them (studying), or if it has been adapted to film blockbuster.

No. I've checked the city's activities, but with the crisis nearly everything has been wiped out, and the few remaining things I'm at the end of the waiting queue since I'm not registered as living in this city. And I don't plan on changing it, since that means losing my current GP. It's hard to find a decent one that worries about you and is not a transphobic c*nt, or at least won't show it.

And that's my problem, I've ben looking for activities or anything outside the TG and LGBT spectrum, and there's nothing free. Also it won't help that I have time for nothing. When working, what little time I have left is spent between getting the minimum amount of exercising and cooking or... Or just doing nothing because of the anxiety and depression caused by work. I haven't been in my best motivation right now... Oh, and I am asocial as fork. Opening myself as I have been doing in the last month hasn't been an easy task.

[Robin Mack]

Robinmack. Sorry, but every time I hear reading I'm torn between laughing and crying. Spain, probably the only country in the world where reading for the pleasure of reading is seen as a bad thing. People here won't read unless it has been forced unto them (studying), or if it has been adapted to film blockbuster.

...

And that's my problem, I've ben looking for activities or anything outside the TG and LGBT spectrum, and there's nothing free. Also it won't help that I have time for nothing. When working, what little time I have left is spent between getting the minimum amount of exercising and cooking or... Or just doing nothing because of the anxiety and depression caused by work. I haven't been in my best motivation right now... Oh, and I am asocial as fork. Opening myself as I have been doing in the last month hasn't been an easy task.

Then *huge* congratulations on doing what you *have* done! 

When you're ready, though, I am certain you can find something social to do; when times are at their worst people tend to band together, informally and outside of community centers.  I hope you find something; some of the best moments of my life have been in the company of women, and I imagine you might well find the same.

*hug*

[Ms Grace]

Totally agree with robinmack, there can never be enough cis women in your life to learn little cues and behaviours off!

And anjaq raises a very good point... to paraphrase another saying "you can 'fool' most of the people most of the time, but you can't 'fool' all of the people all of the time". Not that passing is fooling people, but you get my drift hopefully.

Passing is maybe akin to high diving into a pool, it has degrees of complexity and there are greater risks of 'something going wrong' the more complicated it it is. So a walk down the street is like a simple pike dive, shopping for clothes is a double somersault, using a changing room is a double somersault with a twist... and so on! Of course, once you're passing 24/7 the challenges and worry should become less as passing becomes easier. But in those early days it wouldn't hurt to have someone, or a few someone's, who can give you honest feedback (or a score out of 10!) 

[Apples Mk.II]

Then *huge* congratulations on doing what you *have* done! 

hope you find something; some of the best moments of my life have been in the company of women, and I imagine you might well find the same.

*hug*

heck, It's more of a matter of "When I have the money". The cheapest activities are the ones you can organize by yourself, but... I can't even travel to visit some long distance friends. Until christmas I won't be able to economically recover. Also, The full time is expensive, too...

Looking like crazy for group activities... Can't see no sh*t captain, but I might see the Guerilla Girls exposition (free).

[Robin Mack]

Looking like crazy for group activities... Can't see no sh*t captain, but I might see the Guerilla Girls exposition (free).

That sounds *awesome*! 

[Apples Mk.II]

That sounds *awesome*! 

Actually, I had no idea what it was about till now...

3rd October - 6th January

'Guerilla Girls 1985-2013' is the major retrospective of the work of the Guerilla Girls, the US feminist art group that has become the 'the conscience of the art world' with its posters and interventions. Nearly all the posters and projects that this group of women have produced, since it was founded in 1985, can be seen on the walls of the AlhóndigaBilbao Exhibition Room.  Organised in a chronological sequence, documents are on show alongside these works that generate a 'context' with information on the history and the production processes of the group.

[Robin Mack]

I've been following them off and on for years.  Love 'em.