Who wants to be a transwoman?

[Keira]

Why would someone who's lived with any trauma want to stay around anything that would connect them to the trauma. An example, a rape victim, why would anyone want to identify as a rape victim and be on support sites years after they're trauma? You'd think that you wouldn't want anyone to know that and st

I believe that people do it for others, for themselves; I believe people are good and want to help.

[Buffy]

The issues of labels is one that we all face during our time on earth... when we are born we are classified into boys, girls, Male, Females and as we grow up we are clever, backword, sensitive, out going. As we grow older we become middle aged, senior and move into our dotage, all labels generated by a society, that likes to classify and put things into defined groups.

Transwoman is no different, it is a label to me that society uses to describe what I have done, but not what or who I am ... because I am a Woman (my birth certificate says so). Yes, I cannot escape from the fact that I was born the opposite to a woman (Trans) and changed to become one, but it is not a term that I would use to describe myself.

I agree with Keira, If we want to escape our past, forget our previous existence, here we get into the realms of Stealth (and all the debate that will bring), but I cannot see describing oneselves as Stealth and a Transwoman, can be compatible?

However, I think Transwoman is more of a bearable label than just being labelled Transsexual as at least the woman part gives a better understanding to society that the sexual part.

Buffy

Woman, through and through

[louise000]

I think me becoming a "transwoman" would be a step, or a state, of myself achiving my final goal. I can't do every step at once.

That's basically how I feel too, even though I yet have many steps to take.
As regards the people who post on YouTube, personally I have gained encouragement from watching those (even older ones) who are eminently passable and have mastered their voice techniques. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[mavieenrose]

Why would someone who's lived with any trauma want to stay around anything that would connect them to the trauma. An example, a rape victim, why would anyone want to identify as a rape victim and be on support sites years after they're trauma? You'd think that you wouldn't want anyone to know that and st

I believe that people do it for others, for themselves; I believe people are good and want to help.

While I believe there are some long-transitioned people who do want to help newbies, I think most people hang around this trauma because they're obsessed with it and can't let it go. It's kind of like soldiers who've been through a war an can't stop reliving a horrible experience. Perhaps not in the foreground all the time, but cyclically it comes up in an intense way. That's not a judgment about people coming back to forums or making them less than women, rather for me it just shows how powerful an experience being trans is (both in a negative and positive sense).

For me, what you say makes quite a lot of sense Gina.

As I've previously mentioned I live as a woman in society (and not as 'transsexual', or a 'trans-woman).  Society doesn't label me as trans, and I have a female birth certificate and all other documents I could ever need to 'prove' that I'm not  (just like the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz who receives a diploma to 'prove' he's got a brain...)

However, there are definitely times in my life when the mere fact that I spent my childhood as a boy does affect the way I respond to people and events around me.

When colleagues jokingly ask me when I'm finally going to settle down with someone and have kids, I can't help thinking to myself I can't have kids as I don't have a womb, and I don't have a womb because I was born transsexual.  It's just a natural thought process that results from facing the facts of my life.

Every day I take HRT and every so often I get blood tests done to check I'm in good health.  These medical aspects of my life necessarily remind me of my trans-history.

As a boy I wanted to be a girl, not a trans-girl, and as a woman I would rather not have had to spend my childhood as a transsexual boy.  But wishing things are or were different just doesn't change a thing when it comes to the truth of people's lives.

I've never believed in sweeping problems under the carpet, so I decided long ago to accept I'm a woman with a trans history (a 'transwoman'), to then get over it and just move on.

I could tell myself a thousand times a day I was a woman like any other, but what would be the point ?

MVER XXX

[gothique11]

Hey, wait, I have an online blog on youtube. I can pass as 100%, and I do all the time. After thinking for a long time, I decided to make a blog just to show the world that trans-people are normal, regular people. It's also there to encourage others who are making the transition.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, coming from a youtube blogger herself. I have the right to say what I want on line, including that I'm trans. There's nothing wrong with that. And it certainly doesn't threaten everyone else. I'm not outing anyone except myself.
Posted on: June 28, 2007, 04:37:19 PMAnd PS: For the record, I don't play "victim" on line like someone suggested, and I'm not isolated --- I have many, many friends. I go out and live my life. I'm out all over the place.

Anyway, I'm off to work, and I'm not sure if I'll comment anymore.


Posted on: June 28, 2007, 04:40:48 PM

Why would someone who's lived with any trauma want to stay around anything that would connect them to the trauma. An example, a rape victim, why would anyone want to identify as a rape victim and be on support sites years after they're trauma? You'd think that you wouldn't want anyone to know that and st

I believe that people do it for others, for themselves; I believe people are good and want to help.

While I believe there are some long-transitioned people who do want to help newbies, I think most people hang around this trauma because they're obsessed with it and can't let it go. It's kind of like soldiers who've been through a war an can't stop reliving a horrible experience. Perhaps not in the foreground all the time, but cyclically it comes up in an intense way. That's not a judgment about people coming back to forums or making them less than women, rather for me it just shows how powerful an experience being trans is (both in a negative and positive sense). Time and again I've seen longtime transitioners come back and hang around transforums explaining how they're women, they don't need to talk about who they are, aren't trans anymore after SRS and never even think about their trans past. Well, obviously, they have SOME need to process it or they wouldn't be there. They might distance themselves from it for several decades but, at some point, feel the need to have a conversation about it. I don't believe traumas go away. We just learn to live with them and try to create a positive identity for ourselves that incorporates the trauma but hopefully not identify ourselves as victims. Some do get stuck in victimhood (you see them in every transforum) and don't know how to move forward (or don't want to).

For me, the people on YouTube (apart from sexworkers) are mostly earlier in transition who are feeling really isolated and are in need of a way to connect with others and express what they're going through. I would suspect most of them are having a hard time going outside the house, presenting themselves to other people and are stuck in their virtual world. I'm hoping that the majority of them get through that phase and get out and live. Rather than ripping on them, I would hope we could have some compassion and remember how it felt at the very beginning of dealing with these issues.

ciao,
Gina M.

And yeah, I've been living full time for a year. And yeah, I live off the so-called "virtual world." Just because I put something on the net, doesn't mean that I'm a geek behind a computer. Then again, I only come in here now and then and post now and then when I have time from living in the real world -- funny how often you post.

And yeah, I'm a being a b*tch, so suck it up. You have no right to judge me or others. You're no mis-perfect either, princess.

Posted on: June 28, 2007, 04:43:30 PMAnother thing -- if you have a problem with me, talk to me -- don't post it on the net in a low-ball way attacking my blogs. I have the right to be who I am and express myself on Youtube how I want. If I help someone, then great. If people don't care for it, then ignore me -- but lowballing me in Susans is just plain wrong!

[Elizabeth]

I just can't buy into this "I'm a woman, not a transsexual" argument. It's like, who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? If one was really a woman, they would not be here. To the best of my knowledge there are no GG here just to talk about how great it is being a GG.

It's simple, it's vanity. The very passable and sometimes attractive transsexuals want to show off how passable they are. How they can pass for "real" women. This is nonsense about "seeing how the other side lives", is just that, nonsense.

Anyone that wants to come to a transsexual site and proclaim that they are a woman and not a transsexual, I would just ask: If you are a woman? Then what did you transition from? Like I said, this is silly semantics. If you were born with a male body, you are not a woman. You are a transsexual. Stating that you are not is just another denial. All the denials in the world, all the proclaiming to be a woman, will do nothing to make you an actual woman. I spent enough of my life in denial. This is what I am. I may not like it, I may not want this for myself, but this is what I am.

Just because one is not afraid to deny one's true existence, that does not mean they want to be a transwomen. I am sure we would all have preferred to be born with the correct body. However, proclaiming you were, when you weren't is only a deception. One that many of us just can't pull off.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[katia]

i'm not a gg.  thinking otherwise would be delusional on my part, yet i don't advertise my transsexuality to anyone.  i've chosen to live my life in stealth because this is what works for me.  i don't deny my past but i don't bear it on my forehead either.

[RebeccaFog]

I'm a keen Youtube watcher and I'm surprised (and delighted) by the number of transgendered people who now post videoblogs on there. But many of them introduce themselves by saying "I'm a transwoman" or "I'm a T-girl", etc. etc. In some cases, you'd never know they weren't GGs unless they said so. Personally it has long been my dream to become a woman, not a transwoman or a trans-anything. If I ever achieve my dreams, I hope people will see me as a woman, full stop. Surely transwoman is only a step on the way, not the end of the journey? What do others think?

Hi,

   I just want to remind readers of the 1st post of this thread. It is just an innocent question asking "who wants to be a transwoman?"  I believe that Louise was just curious as to why people would identify as trans.  The scope of this topic does not include the mental health of people who identify as trans. Another dimension to the question is obviously "does anyone identify as a transwoman".

   Louise, I am not trying to put words into your mouth or to distort the meaning of your inquiry, so please correct me if I'm wrong and I will modify (or delete) this post so as not to offend you.


   Anyway, the fact is that some people do identify as transpeople. The reasons they do so is for themselves.  There is nothing wrong with it and it certainly does not signify a sign of mental illness, or attention grabbing. There is no reason to attack anyone who does identify as trans.  It is their right as individuals to do so.
   In my view, people who openly identify as trans are helping us all by giving us visibility. I'm not saying that every single one of them is doing us a favor. Every group has at least several overly colorful characters in it. But they are living according to their rights as human beings.
   Those who would like to live without having that trans label have every right to do so. They also provide a service to the community by living integrated lives within the society.

   Please do not have an argument that is beyond the intention of this thread. If someone wants to start a fistfight over this, you should start your own thread, state your position, create a few boundaries, and have at it.

  I really liked this thread because there are some of us who only want to understand others without judging them or their motivations.  But it's beginning to cause my stomach to hurt when I read it now.

  Please please please stay on topic or else start your own thread.  Obviously, I don't handle tension too well.  I'm not picking on anyone in particular, I am responding to the messages not the writers.

Thank you,

Rebecca

[melissa90299]

I feel like a woman who was born with a birth defect, women have told me that I am absolutely without question as much as a woman as any of them but even without that validation, I would still feel the same, I am a woman, pure and simple.

I do not want to get into an argument about this but I feel it is up to the individual as to how she perceives herself. I don't think it's appropriate to tell people that because I feel one way that all so-called transsexuals should feel that way.

[louise000]

[Hi,

   I just want to remind readers of the 1st post of this thread. It is just an innocent question asking "who wants to be a transwoman?"  I believe that Louise was just curious as to why people would identify as trans.  The scope of this topic does not include the mental health of people who identify as trans. Another dimension to the question is obviously "does anyone identify as a transwoman".

   Louise, I am not trying to put words into your mouth or to distort the meaning of your inquiry, so please correct me if I'm wrong and I will modify (or delete) this post so as not to offend you.


Thank you,

Rebecca

Hi Rebecca, Yes, I go along with everything you say. It was not my intention to spark off a debate which would be offensive to anyone. We all have enough hassles in our way of life without offending each other.
Best wishes, Louise

[mavieenrose]

LVER:
Je vien de voir le film qui s'appel "La Vie en Rose" au sujet de la vie de Edith Piaf. C'etait formidable, surtout l'actrice Marion Cotillard. Vous en avez vu? Mais si triste. En France, je pense que cet film s'appel, "La Mome." le titre que je prefere. Pardonnez ma mauvaise épellation!

Very sorry everyone for going off topic for a moment...

Hi Gina,
Your French is very good indeed
Haven't yet seen the film, but I do plan to soon (and yes it is called 'la Mome' - the kid -in French).

Of course my post name is a reference to another film, simply my favourite film of all; it makes me cry buckets of sadness and joy every time I watch it!

Gros bisous
MVER XXX

(Thought I'd reply in English so as not to perturbe other posters here...)

[Nikki]

If you were born with a male body, you are not a woman. You are a transsexual.

This is every bit as wrong as telling people they aren't transsexual because they haven't done 'X'. I AM a woman, my "gender" is female and that's not changing. My "sex" is male and that will change. But after surgery I will go from being a woman with a male body to being a woman that has had transsexual surgery. SRS doesn't make me "a transsexual" any more than fixing a problem with my appendix would make me "an appendectomy".

I will be first in line to defend you identifying as transsexual no questions asked, but suggest you reconsider your stance and allow other people the same right of self identification.

[melissa90299]

Well put nikki, BTW my real name is nikki!

[Dennis]

LOL Nikki. That's it. I am now defining myself as an appendectomy.

Dennis

[RebeccaFog]

LOL Nikki. That's it. I am now defining myself as an appendectomy.

Dennis

i have considered defining myself as a lithoscopy  ha ha Ouch!

[Elizabeth]

If you were born with a male body, you are not a woman. You are a transsexual.

This is every bit as wrong as telling people they aren't transsexual because they haven't done 'X'. I AM a woman, my "gender" is female and that's not changing. My "sex" is male and that will change. But after surgery I will go from being a woman with a male body to being a woman that has had transsexual surgery. SRS doesn't make me "a transsexual" any more than fixing a problem with my appendix would make me "an appendectomy".

I will be first in line to defend you identifying as transsexual no questions asked, but suggest you reconsider your stance and allow other people the same right of self identification.

There is a difference between how one feels about themselves and what they are. To say one feels like a woman is one thing, to say one is a woman is another. Women don't transition to be women. This is just a denial, in my opinion. One can deny what their body really is, or one can accept it and do what needs to be done to correct it.

All transsexualism is self diagnosed. The definition of GID is a feeling that one is a gender other than that of their body. Again, one may feel female all they want, but unless one is born female the only way to have one's birth certificate say that is to TRANSITION from having the body of one gender to the other, hence the term Transsexual. And in some States like Texas, you will always be whatever one was born with regardless of surgery.

Like I said, this is just semantics. To say one is a woman when one does not have a woman's body is a key symptom of GID. But just saying so, does not make it so. It requires transitioning. Anyone that transitions is by definition a transsexual, despite semantics.

Katia,

I see living stealth as a totally different issue. Not proclaiming one's transsexuality is not the same as being in denial about the true nature of our existence. It is getting on with one's life and what I expect most transsexuals will do. I am sure once my transition is complete I also will refer to myself as a female, even though technically I will still be transsexual. The whole idea has been to live my life as a female, not a transsexual. Having said that, I also would never deny being transsexual if the subject came up.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Nikki]

There is a difference between how one feels about themselves and what they are. To say one feels like a woman is one thing, to say one is a woman is another. Women don't transition to be women. This is just a denial, in my opinion.

In response...

This site is kind of annoying because they use Harry Benjamin's name to make it look all official when really it's just one person's opinion. A person with no credentials, I might add. This person makes up their terminology and makes no citations for the things they say or claim. I think sites like this do everyone a huge disservice. This site is really promoting what they believe transsexualism is and it's contrary to what Harry Benjamin himself wrote and I have posted here on this site. This is just another person trying to pigeon hole people and call anyone not like them a sexual fetishist. Very disappointing.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Insert your name instead of Harry Benjamin's and it fits what you are saying. You are are every bit as wrong as people who tell you you are not transsexual. Other people have the same right to identify as women that you have to identify as transsexual and not as a woman. If telling people they aren't transsexual isn't acceptable around here neither should telling people they aren't women.

[melissa90299]

I didn't transition to become a woman, I was always a woman, except when I was a girl. I transitioned to make my outer body match my inner spirit. The fact that I am a woman has been confirmed countless times by others, especially women. I am not in denial about anything, I know what a am. A woman.

And after SRS and I really get my voice down, I will deny that I am trans to anyone except those I might become intimate with. I don't know, I don't want to tell someone else what she is or what to feel but it seems that most transsexuals have this firm belief that they are women, pure and simple.

[Kate]

I think what's confusing is that the term "transsexual" can be used as:

1) A scientific diagnosis to describe people who identify as the opposite sex

    and

2) A form of self-identity

Some people diagnosed as transsexuals identify as women, and some identify as transsexuals. That's a personal choice, neither being less valid than the other.

But seen in this light, it's possible to be a transsexual (from a scientific point of view) as well as a woman (as a form of identification).

~Kate~

[tinkerbell]

I didn't transition to become a woman, I was always a woman, except when I was a girl. I transitioned to make my outer body match my inner spirit. The fact that I am a woman has been confirmed countless times by others, especially women. I am not in denial about anything, I know what a am. A woman.

And after SRS and I really get my voice down, I will deny that I am trans to anyone except those I might become intimate with. I don't know, I don't want to tell someone else what she is or what to feel but it seems that most transsexuals have this firm belief that they are women, pure and simple.

Utterly perfect!  you get a cookie today!

tink