Do you think we are treated badly because of who we are?

[KabitTarah]

I have limited experience with anyone who's providing a service to me where they know or assume I'm trans.

I came out to my doctor. He had questions but was very, very good with it. I came out to my laser tech - she's great too.

I've also shopped for women's clothing. At worst, they just hurry you through at check out (which is usually a good thing). They can also be quite pleasant to me. Again... it's not something I have a ton of experience with, it's still somewhat difficult to do (the changing rooms hasn't happened yet), and I don't have a lot of extra money to go shopping a lot (as it is, it's time to cut way back - and time to look for thrift stores that might work out well).

I'm still appearing quite male, though. I'm very interested in how that changes -- whether they realize I'm a trans woman or just treat me like a woman. Most people seem to be respectful.

I'm in Rhode Island, USA.

[Nicolette]

I was referring more to the professional people who treat us badly, as in my first post.  If your a professional, a Dentist, a Doctor, anyone who accepts money from you for a service, don't you think they should treat us professionally?

I recall back when I had my surgery 40 years ago, it was common knowledge (where I live) that if you were a sex-change, or (if you weren't) they called you a ->-bleeped-<- then, if you wanted surgical procedures (i.e. breast augmentation) every penny had to be paid up front.  There was a terrible stigma attached to being "trans" in the medical profession.

Absolutely they should be treating you with the utmost respect. I'm furious by your recent experiences. It's totally unacceptable. We don't do this out of a whim or to get a kick. This is our life. It's our core identity. The courage, the pain, the sacrifices made dismissed as if superfluous. I feel your indignity. It's obvious that if you get treated badly by a medical professional then we should seek one more enlightened. Should we not expect better from these educated medical professionals? But when it's a one-off treatment, one we have paid upfront and handsomely for, that's when we are most vulnerable and have less recourse. Then we can only let it be known, as you have done. I'm with you.

[Donna Elvira]

I have had only one really bad experience since coming out, that was there time last year when I  lost my previous job just 3 months after doing the 2nd phase of my FFS. That however was a very bad experience, coming close to a "near death" experience. My transition had a lot to do with with it but was certainly not the only issue involved.
Otherwise it has been almost totally positive and  I would have to give special mention to all the members of the medical profession i have had dealings with. In many cases they have gone out of their way to show kindness to me. This even extends to my FFS surgeon, with whom I have done 3 operations over the last three years. The relationship is so pleasant that we even went out to lunch together the day before the 3rd operation last week.
From what I read here, I'm inclined to believe that mixing among well educated people helps a lot. For example, I got some really beautiful letters from my friends in support of my civil identity change.
i also believe passability helps a lot. Going out and about with a trans woman who actually looks like a woman and doesn't attract any particular attention makes life far easier than trying to swim against the curent ie. presenting as a woman when people basically still see a guy.
It is certainly very unfair but, for me, it is simply one more of the realities of life we have to integrate into out thinking.
Last major comment, I will confirm all of the above when I have completed a successful transition at work. In theory everyone is on board but having already had one very nasty experience, I am not counting my chicken before they are hatched.
Hugs
Donna

P.S. I think we will have the reality check on the 12th of Nov when i return to work as the final touches to my FFS seem to have taken me well beyond the point of no return.

[Kiwi4Eva]

I have been and still am considering having the same surgery at Yeson's. I'd seek one 'more enlightened' like Nicolette said, but I don't think there is another surgeon (yet) who does this surgery (the same way)? Being misgendered is not the only thing that happened to Kiwi4Eva at Yeson's.. If there is another surgeon offering the exact same surgery I'd definitely consider having the surgery done by it, lol.

Publicly (here) I have to say that the benefits of the surgery have to outweigh the negatives.  You would only be there (no more than) 2 weeks and what happened to me may not happen to you.  It's so worth the risk.  You will never have to deal with them again...By the way, the X-Ray examiner asked me if there was a possibility I could be pregnant.  (He was a lovely older man - Korean, but very respectful)

In saying that, someone else needs to make a stand with these service providers and let them know that your (very kind) phrase "misgendering" is just not OK and we (our community) will not tolerate it.  From my experience, the $ is the major motivator in these Asian countries, and if they want our money, they should earn it.

As to my appearance...I always pass.  In our country there are plenty of women (similar age) who are far bigger than me, so my height & size are not relevant.  I don't have an Adam's Apple, I always wear feminine clothes, and I'm told I am very feminine. 

Yeson is the only place to go...

[Kiwi4Eva]

From what I read here, I'm inclined to believe that mixing among well educated people helps a lot. For example, I got some really beautiful letters from my friends in support of my civil identity change.
i also believe passability helps a lot. Going out and about with a trans woman who actually looks like a woman and doesn't attract any particular attention makes life far easier than trying to swim against the curent ie. presenting as a woman when people basically still see a guy.

Donna you are so right.  My friend has straight white bleached hair and a pair of unnaturally perfect large breasts which don't require harnessing.  Her body is emaciated and her face is terrible.  She does have lips though which I don't have.  All those years of working as a dancer/stripper, smoking, heroin addiction, and living the high life have certainly taken a toll on her.  And then there is the Hepatitis C.  No one in the medical profession want to touch her.  She made her choices, just as we all do.  She can barely hear and has very bad eyesight.  I am 9 years younger than her and will not be in her situation in 9 years time.

Donna, you remind me of a ballerina, and you always have.

Hugs,

Hope

[Tessa James]

I would have to say no. It's not because of who we are. Strangers don't know who we are.

The people who treat us badly do so because of who they are. And because of a perceptual image in their own minds of a person they think they know. A perception of what something represents, and how to act because of that. That's not so much a reflection on who we are as it is on how they think, and how their lives colour their own perceptions.

My opinion, anyway.

You dialed right in on this one Sephirah.  I have been "out" as Tessa and TG for most of this year, 2013.  People make assumptions and try to keep those familiar boxes in a row but then people like you and I accept no substitutes for being genuinely ourselves.

So today is Halloween in the USA and I walked amongst scores of costumed kids and adults with my furry new hat with ears.  THEY were in costume and I was dressing for real and THEY could not figure it out.  What fun!  And, of course, this is one day cross dressers of all kinds feel free to live it up in public.  You go girls!  Show us your fairy wings.............

[Donna Elvira]

Donna, you remind me of a ballerina, and you always have.

Hugs,

Hope

Thanks Eva, I find it quite amazing that you should say that as my wife has also told me several times that I look like a retired ballet dancer.Funny coincidence all the more so as for many, many years I was a rower which is really a very different world...
Hugs
Donna

[Lesley_Roberta]

I am blessed with great friends.

Some of them are very supportive, and one buddy goes out of his way to have fun with it.

I have no negative responses to use as illustrations.

I have only my own harsh criticism.

Now it is clear there are people out there that are a problem. The sorts wanting laws against us enjoying simple needs. They cite their kids having troubles with it and we all know it's bull->-bleeped-<- and they are the ones, not the kids having problems with it.

But I don't know much in the way of that sort of person.

Christmas will soon be here and I will get to maybe see some confirmation on a touchy subject. The inlaws well they ditched me over Thanksgiving for me wearing a damned wig. I mean a wig, and just because it was vaguely female in cut. And yes, the idea it was nothing, they didn't really notice me not attend especially when I always attend family gatherings there. Well this Christmas there will be no presence from me, and my mother has withdrawn any interest too. Upside, is mom gets a nice turkey dinner every single Christmas in the process, no sharing any more. The wife likely will go, I hope she understands, but, I don't need the inlaws that badly. I can always cook a good meal myself.

Aside from the inalws behaviour though, my life has no TGphobia in it as I see it. And I live in a small town too.

[Kiwi4Eva]

Well this Christmas there will be no presence from me, and my mother has withdrawn any interest too. Upside, is mom gets a nice turkey dinner every single Christmas in the process, no sharing any more. The wife likely will go, I hope she understands, but, I don't need the inlaws that badly. I can always cook a good meal myself.

Aside from the inalws behaviour though, my life has no TGphobia in it as I see it. And I live in a small town too.

I think that is really sad...However, if it's any consolation, I will be spending my 55th Christmas alone.  The alternative (for me) was a celebration around fake people.  I look at it this way, I'd rather have a good christmas with someone special than a fake one with people because it was my only option.

Will I cry?  Probably.  But it's the only time of the year when I do get emotional.  And after a cry I will emerge even stronger, I always do.

Hugs

[Lesley_Roberta]

Kiwi, I'd be happy to chat with you on Christmas day, and laugh at whatever.

I used to miss Christmas goodies and all the wonderful baked goods mom made when she was oh so much healthier. And her moving to Ottawa for a time, well it meant I didn't get to see much of her at all.

Now I have her all the time and I have told her, at Christmas, she bakes and she is just the brains to my arms
I think she is getting rather amused at being able to bake a lot more than she has in a long while and eat more dinners together than she did for a long while as for a long while everyone was always away at work or pursuing lives in their own fashion.

But me, well I am essentially a senior citizen regardless of chronological age. And I have the time to be with her plenty.
Granted some times I think she needs to seriously give herself a smack in the forehead hehe. She has asked of me some errands and it is like, 'you could have planned that better eh mom'.

I will not seriously miss out on anything. As you said, no one cries over losing something fake.
If my time all the times in the past, has been so easy for them to discard, then none of it was ever genuine either.

Ironic though considering Christmas is supposedly a Christian holiday, and the most overtly Christian (well I suppose thy see it that way), household, is such a farce of all that is supposedly Christian behaviour. I've never said anything I think Christ would ever have cause to fault me on eh.

[Katie]

I am going to say this. A lot trans people that I have met that claimed to be treated badly had a common trait. They presented to the world a scarred, nervous, timid, meek...... ect. ect.. person. Now think back to the school days. The kids that got picked on were what?

I will answer that one for ya if ya have not already. They were the prey! The predators can pick out prey so quick its not funny.

So I am not saying any one person that is treated badly is acting this way but a lot are. If there is one thing I learned in life and more so in transition you have to own it!! You have to put forth an image to the world you belong in the environment. By doing so you eliminate being a prey animal.

I have had people ask how one gains this confidence to be yourself. I can only say that it takes 100% effort and an understanding you really have no other choice but to do it. Many fail at gaining this confidence and the reason is nearly always they did not give a 100% effort.

A last tidbit if you have to ask yourself or other people for permission to be or do something your probably not at that point where your out of the prey category.

[Kiwi4Eva]

Thank You Lesley...lovely of you to be so kind.  I'm not lonely...I have two of the most beautiful creatures in my life, Italian greyhounds, Connie (Mum & Zita daughter)

I've known people whose lives are just terrible and they have people all around them.

We have to learn how to find our own inner peace - and do the things that give us pleasure.  My babies do that, and every time we venture out in public they are the centre of attention.  So I actually get to talk with a lot of lovely people (not just you )

And Katie, I have never been a victim.  I am a survivor, but not a victim.

I've seen a lot of tragedy in my life, but not as much as some...

God (the Italian Greyhound God) bless you all.

We are kindred.  We are here for each other and we must never lose sight of that.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Good point Katie.

In high school I was never pestered even though I was clearly a geek/nerd/hawk. Nothing says move along better than clear evidence this geek/nerd/hawk bites back like a pitbull

Bullies don't like anyone to fight back let alone do more damage than is being done to them.

When it comes to TG, I make it damned plain, better say whatever they are going to say when I have been long gone, because to my face is a very great error.

I walk with a cane, I am disabled, but the cane says it all. It's made from a sledge hammer handle. You have to ask yourself, what sort of person carries a cane made from a sledge hammer handle? Picking on me is simply dumb.

I am guilty of bias like the rest of humanity. We all are. The real problem is, does a person act like a target, a victim, and easy mark?

When I walk down the street, I often wonder how many move aside not because it is the polite thing to do, but because it is clear they are going around me, not the other way around. Yes I have heard, it is more feminine more lady like to seem small, to seem weak, to not do things to intimidate. I prefer thinking of the image of a female bear.

[Katie]

I love the female bear analogy.

I have been playing rollerderby for five years now. I have become pretty good at it. Being that is a full contact sport I learned real quick how to be a predator. Funny my first game I went out and got ran over by this gal (today we are friends and we laugh about that event). I went back to the bench and sat there almost crying.
My coach at that time came over and said something I will never forget "they are not your friends, kill them". I was lucky because that was my very first game and I snapped, I became a predator, many take longer to get to that point.

Moving forward to today. I am never mean to opponents, I never say mean things to them while on the track. But I can tell you one thing I am well known for starring with a wicked smile at opponents and getting in their heads. Guess that's what I love about playing the game, getting in the heads of the opponent and turning it into a mental game instead of physical.

So that's my short story of conquest and how one can learn to become a predator instead of prey. I have never fought for rights, I earned them the hard way. I have rarely ever been given a hard time. As a matter of fact all people are given a hard time at some point.

Hell the only time I ever was given a hard time was when I was paid to play with another team in another state. The opponent team had herd I was trans (when I started playing I was not as wise as I am today and I was open about it). Before the game the opponents raised hell and the referees called me to a conference. They asked me if I was trans, I said nope........ I showed my identification and guess what........ I played that game, and we tore up that opposing team. I did not back down from a challenge and I refused to play into their crap. I am legally female as much as any trans woman can become. I have no reason to cower to anyone...........

Nothing worth a crap in life comes easy! People have to earn their place in the world. As a matter of fact people that earn their rights are far more likely to value them than people that don't have to earn them.

Something to think about.

[Alainaluvsu]

People treat you badly because you let them. If you have no confidence they'll perceive you in a way that makes them comfortable. However if you stand up strong, be who you are, and don't roll over because somebody wants to treat you without thought in the world, they'll respect you.

As far as misgendering, it happens. I misgender cis people sometimes because I'm used to ma'aming people in certain environments or sir'ing people in other environments. It happens, just shrug it off if it's like the first time from that person. However if they keep it up, look at them and say "Excuse me? I'm female!" If they argue with you, give them a "Based on what? How do you know?!" attitude.

[Tessa James]

I so greatly appreciate the strong and uncompromising voices here.

Yes, CONFIDENCE is key and up to us to exhibit.  We can all have down days or hassles but getting back up and moving forward past the dumb and hurtful nonsense is part of the equation for us?

Living well is the best revenge.  I would be sooo happy to walk down the street with a Roller Doll or girl with a sledge hammer cane envisioning a mama bear.  Having hiked the back country of Glacier National Park grizzly bear mamas are no joke.  If they are with a cub it is even more risk to annoy them!  When they stand up to their 8 foot level it is enough to make us piss our pants.

Yes, we can choose to embody the stereotypes of demure and sensitive people and also to put on the BEAR when we need her.

[Ltl89]

Outside of family, most people who are aware of my situation have been nothing but amazing.  Maybe it's the people I surround myself with or I just got lucky?  Whatever the case is, I haven't faced much rejection from anyone that I've come out to besides family and one friend.  I should note, however, that I'm still not fully out to most people and I'm not living full time yet.  So, the hard parts still lie in front of me and who knows what strangers will say.  As of now, I have been amazed at how okay and accepting some people have been when I told them.  And there are many people who are aware of my transition that don't know I know.  Those people have also been very sweet and nice.  And even though strangers seem a little confused by my appearance and behavior at times, they are still very nice and treat me with respect.  I'm hoping it stays that way.... well the nice part, I don't want to remain in the androgynous boy phase too long.  So as of now my experience has been positive with people, but family remains a huge struggle for me.  I guess I can only say yes and no to the question.  It depends on the person. 

[Amira]

Yes and it is worst being in a caribbean country where they absolutely detest anything they find in their words Gay! I'm very thankful i wasn't born in Jamaica doe.

[Ilmari]

I try my best to avoid the kind of self-imposed notion that I'm a victim, and strive to understand the people around me instead. Coming into terms with your surroundings, environment and other people is in my opinion the most significant and changing step one takes in his/her transition. I still live around one third of my life in male clothing and mode, and I personally don't get offended when people call me "mister" or "young man" during those times, since they can't possibly know my background and gender experience. Sure, being called those things is internally annoying, but over time you become relatively passive to it. And even then, if I told them, I'd expect people to be smart and educated enough to accept it and look past it and see a human being, not a "freak" or something like that. If those people can't come into terms with it, it's always their loss, never mine.

When I came out to my parents about six months ago, I was in tears and expected my mother to renounce me, but to my surprise she completely accepted and embraced it. The same applies to my father; they're both extremely neutral about it. They don't see the gender, they see the person and her qualities as a person. In a way, it's kind of a big gobsmacking to have all this acceptance and support come to you and wondering afterward as to why I didn't tell about it and seek help before. And then again, you have to learn how to live in the now, instead of looking back and regretting everything.

Holding on to this kind of mentality has personally helped me avert any long or short spurts of depression and isolation from the rest of the world that I used to do often in my teenage years.

[Shaina]

Yes and it is worst being in a caribbean country where they absolutely detest anything they find in their words Gay! I'm very thankful i wasn't born in Jamaica doe.

I'm in a Pan-African student group at my school and I've heard similar things from my Caribbean and Afro-Latino friends. I think it may be because their family's communities were so religious. Do you find that to be the case with your family?

Still, I find intolerance and acceptance can be found everywhere in varying degrees.