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laser before HRT

Started by jmann, November 23, 2005, 12:28:04 AM

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jmann

So, anyone began laser before HRT? I read the best results come from beginning both at the exact same time. I ask because I find this one of the things I would like to do NOW. I hate shaving!!!

Looking at laser purely as an investment:
I send $50 every two years on a new razor (I have gone from Norelco to Panasonic to Braun all seem to be about $50). And so in 30 years, this will have been $1500, minimally as well as 450 hours spent shaving. I am 22, so this will more than pay for itself before I die.  Of curse I am not taking into account the time value of money, but I think this illustrates the investment is worthwhile.

I've got very dark brown hair and am some peachy shade of "white" so I see no reason not to try laser. If it does not work on me for some reason, we will know well before the full investment is made.

So I have discovered that regardless of what I ever end up doing in terms of when, how, and to what extent I transition, there is a great incentive not to wait to remove hair. So, once again, anyone began laser before HRT?
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stephanie_craxford

Although I'm on HRT, I haven't tried laser treatments but I'm sure that there are those here who have and will be able to advise you.

Just a point...  Laser hair removal is not permanent, the only permanent removal system is electrolysis at the moment and even then it's 95-99% effective.  Although it is much slower process you may want to consider this as an option.

I'm presently working on an article for the Wiki which will address this, and I hope to have it up soon.

Steph
WWotN
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Thundra

Save your money.  I knew someone that worked as a laser clinician, and they LOVE males that come in before taking spiro.
It's like money in the bank for them.  She felt that no matter how much treatment you took, the T was going to excite regrowth until you started blocking it. 

It is indeed anecdotal, but according to her, clients on T-blockers spent half the time and half the money of her other clients, including some females.

In fact, she would not recommend laser treatment for men, but would refer them to an electrolycist instead.  Too much regrowth.
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LostInTime

I got very little out of having laser treatments done.  Another $900 in the trash bin.  I hope to go to E-2000 to take out the few hairs I have on my face (naturally do not have much body hair and about 6 hours of electro so far).

YMMV
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Terri-Gene

Imann, I think it is wonderful that you wish to address the face hair BEFore Hrt.  Once into HRT and developing it gets harder and harder to grow out for the next treatment, or to let anyone touch your face and neck late at night or before you shave in the morning.

Would suggest Electro though.  Lazer has restrictions for hair and skin color and at anyrate doesn't seem permanent.  For my part, I work for an HMO and all cosmetic treatments not covered by my insurance can be purchased for half price or less.  I checked the cosmetology department when I originally wanted to begin hair removal and they did not offer electro, and told me themselves that Lazer wasn't perminant and I should consider electro instead.  In other words, the Lazer Clinic themselves told me thier product would not permanently work since I am an employee and they have to deal with me all the time.

do what you feel best, but yes, it is never to early to address the hair problem.  I have heard the arguments about waiting until such and such long after starting HRT and I can only say I view such things as so much BS, Electo will work regardless of HRT or not, though HRT may make some of the hairs finer, so that they kill quickly, but I doubt it would save you much in the way of hours spent on the table.   I only do an hour every two weeks and so have so far been more then 2 years into it while on HRT and I do not naturally produce any testosterone and it goes no easier per hair now then it did at the beginning, though it's getting to little left, and getting harder and harder to let grow.

Good luck
terri
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jmann

I appreciate all the input. I have not fallen for the illusion of perminantce, However I did expect that it would shorten the time spent with electrolosis if it did work to any extent on any of my hair. But I guess I can throw that idea out. up to 200 hours of electrolosis, Wow, but I would easily spend 200 hours shaving over 15 years.
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Terri-Gene

Quoteup to 200 hours of electrolosis, Wow,

It can take up to that with some individuala, others will need much less.  My tech tells me I should finish with all she can do somewhere under 75 hours.  If I could have spent more on it, I would have been done a long time ago.  Don't base how long it will take on the results of others unless you have simular beard density and hair type.  no individual can tell for sure until they are done and can count the hours spent.  Your electro tech should keep a log of all your visits and hours spent on the table.

Terri
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Terri-Gene

QuoteSo the HRT has something to do with the reduction,

yes it does on body hair, it has much lesseffect on face hair, but whatever the effect on face hair, it's not enough to delay electro for.  As for lazer, I inquired about that at the cosmetic clinic at the HMO I work for as I get any kind of Cosmetology treatments not covered under insurance for half price.  They told me themselves that aside from the fact that most of my face hair is white, I wasn't a canidate for Lazer, and further, they said I should do electro anyway as the could not garentee permenant revmoval with lazer, telling me it would eventually grow back.

Terri
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Terri-Gene

It is true Harper, that Lazer is quicker in terms of time spent on the table, but as you point out, you still have to shave every day, same as with going through electro.  The reason I do not recommend Lazer is that even the Lazer clinics will admit that it is not permanent as Electro.  Electro remains the only known methode of permanent hair removal is electro.  Prove the permanence of Lazer to me and I would accept it, but as is, I see it as a possibly quicker methode but an inferior one.

As to making a transition quicker.  With nothing at all, I could get baby smooth with nothing but a Razor and nothing else as long as nobody is touching my face at night, so I fail to see how that quickens transition, other then in intimate relationships. for myself and my results with electro,  I haven't noticed any smoothness problem other then my face and body have been pounded by weather and knuckles for a lot of decades and for that reason isn't as smooth as would be for a person who has spent the brunt of thier career working in doors or protected from elements and constant abrasions.  And as you say, you are currently in Electro after all the Lazer treatments.  Then to, many people arn't canidates for Lazer anyway if they are light skinned with light hair.  Would be a total waste of time for them.  Electro works on anybody.

It is everybody's option to do what they will, but study the facts and make your best choice, I made mine when the Kaizer cosmetology clinic told me they would not garuntee permanent removal, even though I would have gotten more then half off normal price since neither method was covered under insurance.  I just searched out the electro techs and selected the one who gave me the best information on the techniques and had state certification.

Terri
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DawnL

From my experience, I have had 9 lasers sessions of the face and 98% of the dark hair is gone without recurrence, so the idea that laser isn't permanent just ain't so.  The person who started my laser treatments was a plastic surgeon and said laser before hrt was a complete waste of time and he suggested a three-month lag between starting hrt and laser.  So IMO, one or two laser treatments is not permanent but 9 did it for me. The lip was the most resistant and I went to a second clinic for the final 2 treatments.  The tech there used a laser with a longer wave length and that did the trick.  As noted, it does not work with light or grey hairs, so I'm doing electro to finish it up.

I just had my last session of laser and electrolysis "south of the border" in preparation for surgery and I have to say that you *really* have to want this to go through that.  Wheooooow!

Dawn
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Leigh

If you want to get it over with fast there is a way.

Get a Dr. or Dentist to shoot you full of novocain first,  Do everything in one session.

Just remember that you lose feeling almost "everywhere"  If you think you have to go to the bathroom odds are you already have  ;D
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Terri-Gene

#11
Now why would you even think about a crutch like that Liegh, you already told about where you actually used such "macho" techniques some time back about electro and pain about it,when someone in an electro forum asked about it, remember?

Naw, a little pain other then what was mentioned is no real problem, You never used anything on face and neither have I.  it's kind of intertaining at times ya know?

And I'll believe in permancy of Lazer when the clinics will actually tell me that and an almost perminant number of their clients I know for some years agree with it.  It's not scientifically certified as such yet that, I've heard anything about scientifically though its true I don't hear everything and my psychiatrist told me she thought it worked on on some of her other TS patients. I have not heard Lazer companies or gov sources mention as of yet, but I've heard a lot of people who've had it, with dark hair say it didn't given time down the road, but I've never met a person, in person, that I could see and look at, who finished electo who told me it didn't and I could actuall see and look at after they were cleared.  I've seen a lot of lazer people who said it worked that had black stubble on thier mustach or chin though, but they tell me it worked.

I wonder about it sometimes though.  Hair folicles can simply go dormant for some time, most do for a while or more and do the not working idea come from people doing it in to short a time period and perhaps getting the regrowth of dormant hairs after they were declaired done and seemed to be done for some months or more time perhaps?  Something to give some thought to and to talk to with professional experts, but wouldn't the Lazer Clinics talk about going to quick in thier shops about such a probility if it were true in the way the schedule appointments?

Lectro though takes a while if one doesn't have a lot of money and if only able to do a few hours a month or so because of having to raize money for each treatment at a time, such things would be harder to happen as a lot of those in short treatments at a time can take a year or two and I've talked to some with even more time in, because of the longer period in full treatment before being considered cleared, though I have met at least one who did it very quick.  All day sessions full face at a time, with two techs working on both sides of face at once.  Didn't take all that long in that case, but ya know how it is, money talks and nothing anyone can really do about that.

To bad about all the money, would have loved to watch the ouchie on that kind of deal if nothing was used, heheheeheheh .......

QuoteThe person who started my laser treatments was a plastic surgeon and said laser before hrt was a complete waste of time and he suggested a three-month lag between starting hrt and laser.    As noted, it does not work with light or grey hairs, so I'm doing electro to finish it up.

I got some news for your plastic surgeon lazer person.  Electro before HRT DOES work just fine.  I started with Lectro a little time before HRT and long before I had any real noticible effects on HRT everyone was asking about how I got my face looking so much smoother, It worked fine with no HRT help to that point and really no better since.

I
Quotejust had my last session of laser and electrolysis "south of the border" in preparation for surgery and I have to say that you *really* have to want this to go through that.  Wheooooow!


keep us informed about that in a couple of years from now ok?  ouch!  9 lazer treatments and now Electro because of light hairs...... OUCH! CASH prone.....

Enjoy the Electro ......Sorry, just my nature.

Terri
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DawnL

Quote from: Terri-Gene on December 10, 2005, 02:00:15 AM
I got some news for your plastic surgeon lazer person.  Electro before HRT DOES work just fine.  Terri 

No argument.  He was talking only about hrt and laser.  Since electro kills most follicles outright, testosterone isn't an issue.  I'm sure some of the dark hairs will return and require either more laser or electro but I had my entire face cleared very quickly with laser/electro and that's what I wanted.  I didn't want to wait months to see a result or spend endless hours in an electrologists chair.  Each to their own on this.

Dawn


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stephanie_craxford

#13
Quote from: melissa_girl on December 10, 2005, 11:20:20 AM
That's good to know since I just started Electro, but an not yet on HRT.  I did hear that HRT can reduce the amount of time you need electro, but who knows.

Melissa.

Check out this in the Wiki on Electrolysis for more information.

Steph


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stephanie_craxford

Yep... just corrected it  :)

Thanks for that.

Steph
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stephanie

Laser Hair removal is not permanent, no.  No laser removal tech should ever say that it is, because it isn't.  However, it does keep the dark hair from growing back dark.  If a hair regrows, it will be a light, fine, short hair, which is something a lot of GGs get on their faces too.  And most laser hair removal techs will provide a free consultation to determine if you're a good candidate for laser.  Read that again - FREE consultation.  Couldn't hurt to hear what they have to say before you make a commitment.  If they don't offer a free consultation, find someone else who does.  I plan on getting a consultant to determine my candidacy after my new year's vacation.
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stephanie_craxford

Hello Gracie,

Welcome to Susan's'.  I'm sure that you will find this a great site for support to the Transgendered Community.  We do our best to help, and advise where we can.  You will find us a pretty friendly bunch with a wide variety of backgrounds, experience, and age, etc... Please feel free to join in the topics, write your own as you have done here and take part in others.  It's what makes Susan's' so great.

As to your post...  You are right that there are many who experience a wide variety of results from laser hair removal.  Some, like you seem to have experienced permanent reduction while others have not.  The links you have provided really don't prove that laser is permanent either...

QuoteApogee 9300 - ...have achieved a close to perfect efficiency and long term stability when applied by professional and experienced technicians...

The new GentleYAG is FDA cleared to treat all skin types, including tanned skin, and offers unmatched Nd:YAG treatment capabilities in permanent hair reduction...
There is nothing in their literature that mentions permanent hair removal.

With the link to the Cool Glide...
QuoteCoolGlide Laser Hair Removal Treatment
Fair Oaks Skin Care Center - Laser Genesis Skin Therapy in Fairfax VirginiaThe A NEW innovative aesthetic laser system, has now made it possible for physicians to provide Permanent Hair Reduction for all skin types including tanned patients. With the CoolGlide laser system, physicians can offer treatment that is faster, more comfortable and easier than traditional hair removal methods such as shaving and waxing.
Is CoolGlide Laser Hair Removal permanent?
Treatment results may vary among patients. The CoolGlide is cleared by the FDA for Permanent Hair Reduction. The FDA defines permanent hair reduction as the long term, stable reduction in the number of hairs re-growing after a treatment regime.

again there is no mention of permanent removal just reduction.  The links to the submissions and replies to and from the FDA only indicate that the lasers in question can be used for "...aesthetic applications..." and "...permanent hair reduction..." amongst other things.  Nowhere does it state permanent hair removal

So again it's down to the individual and the results they experience and are happy with.

Steph
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stephanie_craxford

Hello Gracie,

There is no need to apologize for anything you have said, I don't think that anyone would think that you were trying to cause trouble with your post, including me.  You saw an issue that you had feelings about and you stated your side of it supported by facts.  We have never frowned on anything like that and encourage members to actively participate in the forums as you have done.

It is not the intention of Susan's to seemingly only support electro as the only method of permanent hair removal, but to suggest that based on current information it would seem to be the case.  It is entirely up to the reader to make up their own mind what route they wish to take.  Technology is constantly changing so we keep the site up to date with this information as it developed.

Your post was taken in the way you intended it, thoughtful and to the point, and if it was boldly put as you mentioned then all the better.  Hopefully there are other issues besides this one that get you going and you would boldly to take part in.  We welcome your views, ideas, and opinions so take part in all the forums.

Welcome to Susan's

Chat Later,

Steph  :)

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Terri-Gene

Hello Gracie, welcome to Susans.  I appreciaed your links to the FDA article authorizing the marketing of the Coolglide Lazer for medical purposes.  I saw nothing however in the links about any testing of the equipment for results, only that the engineering specs as provided for its manufacture and interstate sale were within the FDA criteria for marketing and that further restrictions on its use may apply.

Again, may have missed it, if I did, sorry, but there were no mentions I saw of any test results, only that it was manufactured according to proper specifications for FDA approval for sale because it was manufactured according to specs permitted for other machines of it's type.  the article did say it was to be used in permanent hair removal but went on to say that depended on other FDA regulations.

Mostly it was designed for plastic surgical work, cutting and all that from what I could read in the article.

Myself, I do not doubt that laser has some success, but general experience is that in general, it doesn't seem to work on the light or white hair of older people and in the process of hair removal doesn't work with darker skins, though it may cut dark skin to ribbons perfectly.

In my own view, knowing how most TS's have a money problem, they may not take it long enough.  by spending enough over a short term of time it would be possible to remove all hair from proper hair and skin colors, but because of the growth of Dormant hairs somewhiere between several months to a year later, come out and if not being able to tell the difference in Dormant hairs and re-growth, they would assume the lazer didn't work and go to electo to clear it up.  So it might be likely that all they would have to do is redo the laser when it come out and perhaps all would be fine, but I have never seen that theory discussed by anyone anywhere, out of litterally thousands of postings from TS people anywhere and to put it in better respective I work for Kaiser Permanente and thier cosmetology lab and Lazer experts told me point blank to seek Electrolosis as they knew I was Transsexual and would have to pay for Laser out of pocket as cosmetic therapy.  That in itself was my guidence to Electro.  When the Lazer experts tell me I'm gonna need something anyway, I take thier word for it.

So all I know is that out of many thousands of people who have had hair removal by both Electro and Lazer, You almost NEVER hear of anyone talking about Electro failure, but you can go all day long hearing from people who have had to go to electro after Laser failed, and if you don't meet the hair/skin criteria, you will have to do electro afterwards anyway, so in the interest of getting what you want that in general NEVER fails, electro is the best alternative especially if you have a beard full of white or light hair.  That doesn't mean that people who need it should not do as much research as possible and select the method they believe is best.

I've never used Laser because of the uncertain results, but I would love to see some investigation on the Dormant hair issue to see if that may be the cause of so many complaints about it, thousands of complaints.

Anyway, good input although I myself could find no certification in the links that it actually worked on hair removal other then it met the manufacturer requirements of safety.  If this machine and others like it are available enough in qualified shops for thier use and start producing actual Permanent results in All patients there will be no fear that it will take a large part of the market, but untill the results are seen by the thousands of people who use them, I would not recommend them other then to advice to reasearch and form an opinion on that research.

Meanwhile enjoy susans.

Terri
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Shelley

Hi Gracie,

Welcome to Susan's great to have you on board. The information and links that you have provided are what Susan's is about. Through the sharing of information we all become better informed. Thank you for sharing.

Shelley
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