A new take on manner of address

[Lesley_Roberta]

I penned this today on my Facebook, which is to some extent just me ranting at friends who are not even the problem. But then, friends don't mind you ranting.

quote

I have enough trouble with feelings of value, feeling of worth and feelings of purpose that are not even connected to gender.
My name is Lesley, I am Mrs Lesley, no I am not your son, not your uncle and not your brother, nor am I anyone's husband.
No I am not waiting till tomorrow or some distant time for you to get your ideas in order to wrap your head around it like it was some big request.

I've spent 20 years dealing with the feeling like I have no value, no worth, no purpose thanks to fybromyalgia. You can assume, I will be harsh, nasty, vicious even if you do the slightest thing to suggest I am not a woman.
I'm not asking you to get horny thinking of me guys. I'm expecting the same you expect of me. Or would you like me to devalue, your worth and suggest none of you are real men? real women? and have no value and no worth?

unquote

I have basically resolved, that after 20 years of depression all thanks to fybromyalgia ripping my life to shreds, and years spent trying (often poorly and often with no success at all) to rebuild my sense of worth and value and purpose, that no more.

Nope, I am at the end of my rope, I have no more rope no more slack to work with.
I am telling people they WILL start addressing me as she, her, miss mam all the usual stuff, and as a wife, as an aunt, as a sister a daughter and all the rest. They will do it immediately. They will do it or there WILL be consequences. And I am tired of it being me that suffered at the hands of something I have no control over.

It's not a painful process to call me like I am. I am not asking them to break a bad substance habit. This is not a smoking problem or a drinking problem or a gambling problem. I just want them to call me as I am. I am Mrs Lesley, I am not a man, I am not a husband. It is not relevant I married a person termed a wife. I am a mum even if not a mom. I am not a dad a father or any other manner of male gendered speech.

I am cutting no one any slack any further. I can't. I don't have it in me.

I am not saying copy me, those of you who might be enduring this hassle. You are not me and I am not you and your life will have different experiences. But, you might wish to use my example as a means to making up your own mind as to how to steel your on resolve.

Me, I am making a stand. Everyone around me supports me, I have so many that claim it.
I don't think it is going to be a problem.
I am ready though if it is.
I am not retreating.

[MaryXYX]

All of my friends and associates since transition are quite sure I'm female, even though most of them know I didn't use to be.

My ex-wife will never accept my transition and I don't intend to try.

I'm still unsure about the children, almost all of whom don't accept me.  At the moment I would prefer to send birthday cards and sign them "Grand-Dad" rather than be told not to send any more cards.  At least this way there is a chance of dialogue, although I might come to the same point as you.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Just me in this case, but, life is hard enough, those that accept me are in, those that don't accept me died in a plane crash or something.

Not going to spend my life waiting on something that needs no wait time.

Was talking to my mom today, told her she was likely the only person I was planning to cut any slack. We are due to go to a Kennel club dinner Dec 12th. She asked me how to introduce me, I told her as her daughter. I followed up my reply by telling her, I can always tell them, we are not all born a Disney princess. Added further, I see cis females every day that need to be asked, 'had you looked in a mirror before you came out today?'. I don't feel it is that great a stretch to accept me as a female regardless of my appearances. I likely look more attractive than some of the cis females around me some days.

I was reflecting while walking home. You would not ask a person of cliche origins, to stop using a famous black slur, and them respond with, well it will take me some time to get my head around doing it, and consider their request acceptable. No, you stop doing it immediately.

I could say the same of racial slurs, of cultural slurs of religious slurs. So that is it with me, the reason why I say, no, I am not going to give them a 'get used to it' time frame. Sorry you are not a stranger, you know me personally, this is not out of the blue, it has been common knowledge for a year now. They WILL address me correctly and willingly, or th alternative, they can get used to A. being ignored as if they had said nothing at all, or B. I reply in a particularly offensive manner that clearly demeans them, devalues them, and makes it shockingly clear, they may NOT get a pass on using the wrong manner of address because they are 'not used to it yet'.

That crap floats like a rock. A person needs to be something of a dense moron to need time to 'wrap their head around it'.

Remember, I am not in stealth mode. I am not telling myself to grin and bear it because they know no different.

[Chaos]

All i have to say is:

THAT is how you take control of YOU and put your foot down.Well done.

[Ms Grace]

I was reflecting while walking home. You would not ask a person of cliche origins, to stop using a famous black slur, and them respond with, well it will take me some time to get my head around doing it, and consider their request acceptable. No, you stop doing it immediately.

...

That crap floats like a rock. A person needs to be something of a dense moron to need time to 'wrap their head around it'.

Couldn't agree more!

[MaryXYX]

This is a good question.  My idea was that I wanted to allow time for the children to adjust.  Clearly they haven't.  I do feel I would like to run it past the one daughter who is supportive, but another question is:
How could I put it to them that if I had a black gf/bf I would not cut them any slack at all for referring to the n.....?
This is just as offensive.

[LordKAT]

You can afford to do that when it won't interfere with your work. At my job, it would make for me getting in trouble, not them.

[Lesley_Roberta]

In most cases of work place, I think it falls under the directions of workplace discrimination to disregard your wishes.

Now that is with coworkers. As I mentioned, I don't hold to account strangers who would not know any better.

Hey some of us pass with ease, some of us not at all. I can't be offended if a stranger acts on their own perceptions even if faulty.

But yes, it is like I mentioned Mary. If you had a friend, and they were black, would they be permitted to use that term? Highly doubt it.

I have told my son, sorry kiddo, I grew up in a home where the Fbomb got you a taste test of the current dish soap. Use it around her and you can forget me helping you out. Now if a person can be asked to go from being in a home where foul language is no big deal, to being told sorry I'd advise you to not say it at all, then it is not so much a stretch being told, sorry, but using the wrong manner of address is just not allowed.

My nieces and nephews are likely going to be cool with it. I know my nieces and nephews, they are good kids. I think my only problem will be with adults that don't think they have to make the effort. Sorry, but you do. I don't need to 'play nice' if they have no desire to show me any respect.

And remember people, you only get the respect when you demand it. Don't go thinking they will just do it otherwise.

[Danielle Emmalee]

And remember people, you only get the respect when you demand it. Don't go thinking they will just do it otherwise.

You might get compliance when you demand it.  Respect, though, has to be earned.  If they don't respect you, don't kid yourself into thinking they will just because you demand it, they most likely will either comply to avoid conflict or avoid you, it doesn't really have to do with respect. 

[Chaos]

You might get compliance when you demand it.  Respect, though, has to be earned.  If they don't respect you, don't kid yourself into thinking they will just because you demand it, they most likely will either comply to avoid conflict or avoid you, it doesn't really have to do with respect.

over lets say *30 years* you earn respect by suffering for their benefit,doing right by them-there comes a time when its a give and take.You give your entire life to someone and if they can not give you the simple respect of using the right way of addressing someone,then they prove just how much THEY have not earned your respect.But respect is given on many levels and NOT just earned.Trust is earned but respect is showing that each human being should have understanding for another and if one lacks that respect,then they lack humanity.And if one avoids said person to avoid having to show that respect or anything like that,then they should do just that-walk away and disappear.

[Danielle Emmalee]

over lets say *30 years* you earn respect by suffering for their benefit,doing right by them-there comes a time when its a give and take.You give your entire life to someone and if they can not give you the simple respect of using the right way of addressing someone,then they prove just how much THEY have not earned your respect.But respect is given on many levels and NOT just earned.Trust is earned but respect is showing that each human being should have understanding for another and if one lacks that respect,then they lack humanity.And if one avoids said person to avoid having to show that respect or anything like that,then they should do just that-walk away and disappear.

I'm not saying that there's a better way to earn their respect, just that if you don't already have it, don't expect demanding it from them to work.  I'm also not saying that they deserve your respect at all.

[Beth Andrea]

You might get compliance when you demand it.  Respect, though, has to be earned.  If they don't respect you, don't kid yourself into thinking they will just because you demand it, they most likely will either comply to avoid conflict or avoid you, it doesn't really have to do with respect.

I like Lesley's fired-up approach. Sure, "respect" is earned, but disrespect cannot be tolerated. And common courtesy can be demanded. To allow someone to call you whatever THEY want, is to allow them to disrespect you.

[Chaos]

I like Lesley's fired-up approach. Sure, "respect" is earned, but disrespect cannot be tolerated. And common courtesy can be demanded. To allow someone to call you whatever THEY want, is to allow them to disrespect you.

Very true and some do need to be taught how to show that respect.Some confuse *respect* with an emotion but its an action.Like for example:

A father was laying in a hospital bed dying and he turned to his son and said *my last request is that you sell my house and give all the money to charity*
Now this son had a few ways he could do this.
1) Be selfish and use the blood link/DNA to claim the house *Well i know what he said but hes my father and it goes right to me.so i am going to move in and make it my own.*
2) or still being selfish,he tries to relieve some of the guilt by saying *Well i sold the house but i am keeping the money for myself.i did what he said so everything should be fine*

But its not about emotions,links,money,objects but that another human being trusted you enough and put their faith in you that you will do the right thing.A respectful son would have did exactly as he was asked..By a dying *MAN*

That is respect.And the same goes with everything else in life.We take the time to correct people because we trust them enough to put out the effort *action* to return it.And in those times,we learn who respects us in return-as a human being.

[Danielle Emmalee]

I like Lesley's fired-up approach. Sure, "respect" is earned, but disrespect cannot be tolerated. And common courtesy can be demanded. To allow someone to call you whatever THEY want, is to allow them to disrespect you.

I agree with the approach as well, don't let people disrespect you, don't take crap from anyone.  Just don't mistake it for respect if they didn't have it for you before and they change their ways (in front of you, at least).  They didn't respect you before and its unlikely that they do now, they're just being polite now.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Much said about respect.

But in the end, it is either real, or it isn't respect.

But respect has to be given to the person willingly, or it isn't respect.

A person can demand respect and if the person is worth it, they likely will get it. But rarely does a person get respect, if they don't respect themselves to begin with.

I am ok with a person giving grudging respect. Hey you might not like the person, but you can still respect the person. It's not about being liked, it's about being respected.

Now as for common courtesy. That isn't respect, that's manners. It never hurts to have manners. It tends to prevent you from accidentally making yourself look bad.

And of course, you can go a long time, and think you had something, when you didn't. Respect is like friendship in that regard. It sucks finding out long after you thought you had something, that you didn't.

The whole manner of address issue, it might be the catalyst that draws out the real person and makes you discover they were in fact not what you had conned yourself into believing. Or it could be something else. It might be the first time you appear wearing a dress. It might be the first time you go swimming and appear in a new swimsuit. It might be the whole restroom issue.

There will be many moments we who are TG might push just the right button that sets off the result.
But I won't tolerate being intentionally gendered incorrectly any more than I would allow a person to laugh at me derisively for my attire, or my insistence on using a restroom of my choosing being denied for idiotic invented reasons.

Most people that will respect you will do so willingly. Some might do it grudgingly.
I don't need the respect from the people I will be discarding though. If they won't respect me, oh well, I don't need them in my life at all then.

You have to ask yourself, are you worth it?

[Danielle Emmalee]

You have to ask yourself, are you worth it?

L'Oreal told me I was.