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My voice journey

Started by anjaq, November 12, 2013, 06:21:38 PM

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Jennygirl

Someone tipped me that you had made the decision and I just want to say

CONGRATULATIONS ANJA!!! HOLY COW! You are doing it!! Caps are totally necessary here! Lol!

Looks like you girls have been busy in the voice forum, it's wonderful to see!! And hear!!!
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anjaq

Aw THANK YOU ;) - yes, holy cow indeed. I am feeling like I am a bit crazy for doing this now, and very excited. It seem surreal for me but there are the flight tickets on my desk, so it will happen - I just have to stay healthy now - or at least in February.
Jenny, you must be what 1.5 year past this surgery now? I saw the last post from you on that topic after the 9 month mark i  believe. What happened thereafter? more improvements? Does it really need the 12 months to be fully ok again? Did you reach the high C in the upper range eventually :P :)?

Geez - just 9 weeks now and that voice topic changes massively for me. Ok and then another 6-12 months recovery - but my voice therapist and phoniater are already excited how it will be for me and they want to do the aftercare.

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Jennygirl

Anja I wouldn't be surprised with the attention to detail that you pay if you have the best result out of anyone so far ;) Especially with a dedicated team of specialists helping you through the recovery process.

As far as my voice goes, all good things to report. Not much change after the year mark. I still have to watch out somewhat with getting loud at parties and talking loudly for extended periods of time- sometimes the next day my voice will be a little bit weaker.

Half of me wants to try another botox shot. I emailed Dr. Kim a while back asking about those issues and he said it was 100% for sure the vocal tremor he found and that the botox would improve it, temporarily. I wouldn't be surprised if the botox had been helping me out for the first 4 months and then slowly fell completely away as I approached the year mark. Maybe another round is in order to test that!

Either way I'm super happy with my voice. People literally don't believe I'm trans when I tell them. Take for example walking into a trans night at a bar and being asked more than a few times "and why are you here?" Really nice affirmation there!

As far as hitting the high C, no I was never able to reach it! In fact my upper extension has fallen off in recent months, as I have stopped doing the vocal exercises completely. It has probably been about 5 months since I did it at all. I can still hit the E5 pretty easily though! It's not something I worry about, I dunno if you can tell.
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anjaq

I really hope to get a really good voice, indeed. I am not sure it will be happening as I think I damaged it quite a bit over the years and I can feel that. So probably some breathiness will remain. I hope to not loose much at the upper end, if I gain something it will be a bonus. The part about the "high C" was half jokingly as I think that rather few women can actually reach it ;) - but if you would have, it would have been amazing :)

The waekness a day after talking loudly a lot is a bit of a downside. I will probably have some of these days because of my job - sometimes I probably would have to talk loudly for several days in a row. I hope this works. Right now it does not properly and I tend to just reduce my words.

I still wonder what that vocal tremor is all about and what causes it plus what its effect is. Dr Kim remote-diagnosed it in me too but my doctors here never mentioned it. I guess I will have to try to get it fixed with therapy and not botox if it persists.

Quote from: Jennygirl on December 24, 2014, 01:48:50 AM
Either way I'm super happy with my voice. People literally don't believe I'm trans when I tell them. Take for example walking into a trans night at a bar and being asked more than a few times "and why are you here?" Really nice affirmation there!
Wow, thats sooo cool. I tried that once and failed :\ - But I am not sure why. I didnt have FFS though, so maybe that part was it as well. Plus I think we asked someone at the bar about hte meeting and he must have told someone from the group.

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anjaq

Today on christmas day, it will be 2 months until the date. I am exited and a bit nervous ;)

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Teslagirl

Really pleased for you Anjaq. You've analysed all this for so long to the nth degree; and now you'll have first hand experience. Can I ask what airline you've chosen? I will need to get there from the UK and my favourite, Virgin doesn't seem to fly to Seoul. I don't have all the specialists you do. Do you think it's still possible to get a good result on your own?

Sarah
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anjaq

I will take the cheap flight and the guest house there as the surgery is already expensive enough ;) - So it will be Air China, 800 EU two way from Germany. And the Guest House that Amy recommended is about 50 EU a night for 2 people. So that adds about 1400 EU to the about 5500 EU for the surgery.

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anjaq

Oh and I think of course you can get good results without all those specialists. The others did have good results too. And honestly they are not so special. One is a voice doctor at a clinic, she never had a patient like this before and can just see if it is looking good or if I get blood clots or oedema or something like that - and she can do some voice analysis. She can make endoscope videos to send to Dr kim if needed. But many ENTs can do all of that. And the other person is jsut a regular speech therapist who has some additional knowledge on gendered voice training.

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anjaq

Ok, I just wired the money for the surgery to Korea. No turning back now :P. For those in the Eurozone: It was a whopping 6400 EU thanks to the stupid global politics and economics. A year ago it was almost 1000 EU less. So I am looking at a total of about 8000 EU for the trip, including flight and room.

5 weeks until takeoff - I am getting nervous...

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anjaq

I wrote this altready in the huge thread about Yeson, but just want to repeat part of it here again in my own thread.

Me and a friend arrived at Soul yesterday. The examination is planned for tomorrow and the surgery for the day after that.

3 weeks before, I was noticing I ab about to get a cold, tried everything to prevent it but it got worse, we trated the sinusitis with antibiotics, but they did not work well and a week later I was in bed with fever - 2 weeks before the surgery date. We tried more antibiotics and they worked, I recovered about 10 days before the surgery enough so that Jessie was giving her ok for me to come to Yeson. I worry still, since I still have dryness of the throat and nose, some coughing up of phlegm or mucous... but I hope it will be manageable... I was seriously considering rescheduling the flights and surgery at a rather high cost because of that stupid sickness.

The journey was not pleasant. First flight was delayed already, so it was very close to meet the second, that one was mediocre but ok and ended in Bejing, where we had a lot of "fun" with chinese security. Luckily we had 3.5h transit time, because we needed all of that to have every bit of out hand luggage opened, examined, checked, analyzed, returned to us to pack back in the bags and then open the bags again with the same stuff going on until our stuff was all mixed up and partially lost or damaged. We had to undress to the underwear and be checked over again. We had to explain what all the stuff was in our bags - especially all the medication we carried to be sure to have it if the main baggage would get lost and the inhalator I carried to keep my airways hydrated during the return flight. I guess they thought the inhalator was for using illegal drugs and all the medication would be illegal drugs too or something. The connectin "almost-domestic" flight to Seoul was clearly designed for Chinese with the seats so small that we barely could move. At some point (I think it was when the horrible food arrived) we just had to flash.laugh and could not stop because it was just too absurd and we were so tired. ICN airport then was gigantic - one has to walk and walk and take a train and walk and walk some more to get to the baggage claim. And it is about an hour drive by bus from the city.
So I guess my advice, especially for those who have no legal name/gender change or are not post-GRS yet - avoid Bejing at all costs - they seem to not know what international transit is and I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if upon undressing they would have discovered apparent "mismatches" between my appearance, passport name or gender and body configuration. Drug smugglers that use a false identity would probably have been their guess... Crazy people...

Oh and the dry air in the planes was horrible for the throat and nose :( - Which was why I carried the inhalator and some of the medication in the first place that the Chinese did not like.

And then apparently there is a huge dust storn right now, which makes breathing unpleasant in Seoul. So another advice would really be to travel in summer or fall when there is less risk of getting sick or into a dust storm.

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kwala

Quote from: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 11:15:10 PM
I wrote this altready in the huge thread about Yeson, but just want to repeat part of it here again in my own thread.

Me and a friend arrived at Soul yesterday. The examination is planned for tomorrow and the surgery for the day after that.

3 weeks before, I was noticing I ab about to get a cold, tried everything to prevent it but it got worse, we trated the sinusitis with antibiotics, but they did not work well and a week later I was in bed with fever - 2 weeks before the surgery date. We tried more antibiotics and they worked, I recovered about 10 days before the surgery enough so that Jessie was giving her ok for me to come to Yeson. I worry still, since I still have dryness of the throat and nose, some coughing up of phlegm or mucous... but I hope it will be manageable... I was seriously considering rescheduling the flights and surgery at a rather high cost because of that stupid sickness.

The journey was not pleasant. First flight was delayed already, so it was very close to meet the second, that one was mediocre but ok and ended in Bejing, where we had a lot of "fun" with chinese security. Luckily we had 3.5h transit time, because we needed all of that to have every bit of out hand luggage opened, examined, checked, analyzed, returned to us to pack back in the bags and then open the bags again with the same stuff going on until our stuff was all mixed up and partially lost or damaged. We had to undress to the underwear and be checked over again. We had to explain what all the stuff was in our bags - especially all the medication we carried to be sure to have it if the main baggage would get lost and the inhalator I carried to keep my airways hydrated during the return flight. I guess they thought the inhalator was for using illegal drugs and all the medication would be illegal drugs too or something. The connectin "almost-domestic" flight to Seoul was clearly designed for Chinese with the seats so small that we barely could move. At some point (I think it was when the horrible food arrived) we just had to flash.laugh and could not stop because it was just too absurd and we were so tired. ICN airport then was gigantic - one has to walk and walk and take a train and walk and walk some more to get to the baggage claim. And it is about an hour drive by bus from the city.
So I guess my advice, especially for those who have no legal name/gender change or are not post-GRS yet - avoid Bejing at all costs - they seem to not know what international transit is and I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if upon undressing they would have discovered apparent "mismatches" between my appearance, passport name or gender and body configuration. Drug smugglers that use a false identity would probably have been their guess... Crazy people...

Oh and the dry air in the planes was horrible for the throat and nose :( - Which was why I carried the inhalator and some of the medication in the first place that the Chinese did not like.

And then apparently there is a huge dust storn right now, which makes breathing unpleasant in Seoul. So another advice would really be to travel in summer or fall when there is less risk of getting sick or into a dust storm.

I'm sorry there were some setbacks/annoyances on the way there, Anja!  But nothing worth doing is ever easy :)  Today is the day, right??  I'm so thrilled that you made it and I'm sending positive energy for a great surgery today :)
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ImagineKate

Quote from: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 11:15:10 PM
The journey was not pleasant. First flight was delayed already, so it was very close to meet the second, that one was mediocre but ok and ended in Bejing, where we had a lot of "fun" with chinese security. Luckily we had 3.5h transit time, because we needed all of that to have every bit of out hand luggage opened, examined, checked, analyzed, returned to us to pack back in the bags and then open the bags again with the same stuff going on until our stuff was all mixed up and partially lost or damaged. We had to undress to the underwear and be checked over again. We had to explain what all the stuff was in our bags - especially all the medication we carried to be sure to have it if the main baggage would get lost and the inhalator I carried to keep my airways hydrated during the return flight. I guess they thought the inhalator was for using illegal drugs and all the medication would be illegal drugs too or something. The connectin "almost-domestic" flight to Seoul was clearly designed for Chinese with the seats so small that we barely could move. At some point (I think it was when the horrible food arrived) we just had to flash.laugh and could not stop because it was just too absurd and we were so tired. ICN airport then was gigantic - one has to walk and walk and take a train and walk and walk some more to get to the baggage claim. And it is about an hour drive by bus from the city.
So I guess my advice, especially for those who have no legal name/gender change or are not post-GRS yet - avoid Bejing at all costs - they seem to not know what international transit is and I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if upon undressing they would have discovered apparent "mismatches" between my appearance, passport name or gender and body configuration. Drug smugglers that use a false identity would probably have been their guess... Crazy people...

I try to avoid China at all costs, but I once applied for a Chinese visa to visit.

It was quite an experience.

First let me say that my situation is different from yours. China does not really give journalists or anyone who works for the press an easy time. Or let's say they give us extra scrutiny. I am a technology manager at a cable network TV station so from the time I put down who my employer is they get antsy. They think I am a journalist and I am going for work... so they try to tell me I need to apply for a journalist visa. I needed a letter from the company saying I am not going for work.

Eventually I got the visa but I never went.

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sarahb

Hi Anja, I just popped in to Susan's today and noticed that your VFS is today! I can't believe you are finally doing it! I'm excited to hear about your journey. Good luck with everything, and have fun in Seoul.
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ImagineKate

Anja,

I hope you're OK after your surgery. I have been thinking about you today!
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anjaq

Thanks everyone for the good wishes and energy. I write more tomorrow. But it was really a good experience so far. Jessie is great and Dr Kim is amazing :-). He answered all my questions and comforted me. Surgery was good I think. Complications were bearable. A stiff and painful neck and headache. Apparently I coughed a lot during wake-up, which may be a problem, but I try to avoid out from now on if I can. I cannot always though. Anyways, still jetlagged it seems. 4am and I cannot sleep :-(

Yes, Sarah, I Really did it! Finally! OMG... :-)

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kwala

Quote from: anjaq on February 25, 2015, 01:08:41 PM
Thanks everyone for the good wishes and energy. I write more tomorrow. But it was really a good experience so far. Jessie is great and Dr Kim is amazing :-). He answered all my questions and comforted me. Surgery was good I think. Complications were bearable. A stiff and painful neck and headache. Apparently I coughed a lot during wake-up, which may be a problem, but I try to avoid out from now on if I can. I cannot always though. Anyways, still jetlagged it seems. 4am and I cannot sleep :-(

Yes, Sarah, I Really did it! Finally! OMG... :-)

Yay!  So happy for you and wishing you a healthy recovery :)
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HaleyT

Congrats Anja!  I'm glad to hear that everything went well!!!
Two hours until my own pre-op consultation.  yay!  :o

~Haley
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anjaq

Hi, Haley. Good to hear. Dr Kim is fantastic, he will answer all your questions. So then you may eat until 8pm probably and then its preparation for the surgery tomorrow. You must be excited. They are all so nice in the clinic. Have fun with the rainbow- and grandfather passage :P

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anjaq

Ok, I promised to write some more :)
So on Tuesday was the examination - quite comprehensive, but they did not do a voice range test. Dr Kim did his camera check and asked questions. (One of them was "When did your gender identity change" ;) - I said "never?" - LOL - I hate these sort of questions). The camera check was ok. better than the ones with the camera into the mouth, where I usually gag, but they did that one later, too with a high speed image camera. Interestingly they managed to do ith without me gagging - same as later the infusionfor the surgery - I have no haemmorage there now - for the first time. They really are super careful...
So the check with Dr Kim pointed towards a multiple diagnosis. The usual "vocal tremor" which is his favourite of course, a strong assymetry of the vocal folds, a frontal incomplete glottal closure and of course the androphonia - low pitch. He said the surgery can correct the pitch and assymetry but the other things have to be treated with botox and voice training and hopefully will get better once I do not have to fake my voice anymore.
Then I did the voice examinatio first a video of reading the rainbow passage and some other stuff, then another readong of a new passage, tha "grandfather passage" for the computer. Each time I was supposed to read it in my relaxed and my trained voice. I did not manage to totally relax though, so I think I could have gotten lower. The result was the relaxed one was at 133 Hz the elevated one at 188 Hz. Then some tests with glottal pressure and air flow and more photos and videos of my vocal folds with cameras in my mouth. The result was that I have a 4 times higher pressure on my vocal folds which causes them to "smash together", but I loose a lot of air because of the incomplete glottal closure, so I use 3 times as much air as normal. They also did blood tests (I guess mainly coagulation and liver tests), a test if I am allergic to the antibiotics (no one ever did that in Germany when I was given antibiotics), an X Ray of the chest (with an awfully old looking machine :\ ).

Dr Kim strongly emphasized the importance of getting used to the new vocal folds post op with voice training and suported by the Botox. He recommended 8 months of Botox or the medication. So basically 4 months Botox and then 4 Months of the muscle relaxant. This is long. I mentioned I have a history of depression and am worried a bit about the medication, so he said he will give me a second one that I could use in case the originaly one is too much affecting me. If all works out, I should get rid of some of the other issues with the pressure and air flow as well.

He did explain some of the surgery there. Also the main differences to other surgeries that are similar. A major difference is that he uses permanent sutures, he said the thread used for that can be made more tight and last long enough for the 2 month healing period. Other threads could open by themselves or dissolve too early (which is what happend at my last genital correction surgery). I can imagine it also gives additional support in the long run. The other big thing is that he makes a deep suture. He does not only sew together the vocal folds, but also the tissue beneath that. This means he can avoid a pocket forming, which would cause turbulence in the air flow and cause a breathy or hoarse voice (as I heard it from many other people who had glottoplasty with other doctors), and this trick also makes the new commissure, the little V where the vocal chords meet, more stable. Additional stability is created by scar tissue between the new commissure and its original place at the cartilage. That way it is more stable and less likely to shift or move or swing, which would cause pitch instability and hoarseness.

Surgery was yesterday - he explained again something about recovery, estimated that my pitch increase would happen between month 2 and 4 given my condition and my vocal fold length, which is not too long apparently. He only will do two stitches and he explained again about the Botox. It goes into the muscles outside the vocal folds. Some thyroid (?) muscles, but not the vocalis muscle. If I get this right, this means that one has a limited voice range because of that during the first months. He said the first week I should be absolutely silent (which I found to be impossible because sometimes I need to cough a bit of phlegm up and in a half wake state in the morning I mumbled 2 words today, but I give my best) - then 3 more weeks of silence or saying a word or two intentionally. Then 4 weeks of minimum conversation and after 2 months the full voice use and beginning of voice therapy.

Surgery was ok - My main complications were some swelling in the hand of the infusion and severe neck and head pain, but my sensation in the tongue is all right, I mentioned I am sensitive to it, so he took extra care of it, asked me about my teeth, if they are all ok. They still are. The neck pain comes from overstretching hte neck in order to get the tools into it and the headache from the anaesthesia. Apparently I coughed a whole lot while waking up from the anaesthesia without having memory of that. I hope this is all right. I needed the full 3-4 hours then after that to recover enough to go back to the hotel by taxi. I was not feeling so wekk because of the pain, but I enjoyed the ice cream and cold water as well as the hand warm soup later on. No hot or spicy food for the next days... I had to cough again some times during the recovery.

Then he did a post op check - with camera. He showed me the pictures and the suture looked great. To my eyes it looked like he has reduced it by more than 1/3, but that could be a misperception. The whole thing looks more like a y than a Y, with the new commissure being off axis by a good part because only that way he could correct the asymmetry. Now both sides are same size, that should be good. Everything seems to have gone very well.

Taxi back to the Phil House cost 6000 Won and was fast. Then I needed a night to recover, eat more ice cream from the store next to the house and sadly could not really sleep well. Jetlag plus the Koreans seem to like to have very hard beds. Even in the clinic, the bed was very hard and uncomfy for me, I am used softer beds from home and clinics in Germany. I hope I can find more rest. first day post op I am pretty much awake and feel fine, but I was sleeping - or trying to - until midday. So no sightseeing today, but getting food later on.

I had some trouble with finding affordable food here, many places are expensive,  but some seem to be reasonable, expecially the ones not selling western food. Also the ATMs apparently often do not take Maestro cards, which is annoying and we still have to find one that does to get more money.

Jessie was super helpful and nice. I also got a package with medication for 7 days, antibiotics and stuff that makes it easier to get rid of phlegm, but no cough suppressant - but I brought some of that myself. Also post op instructions and some papers with important sentences in english and korean to get around.

I feel amazingly little pain - just like one would have if one had a laryngitis or bad cough before - so it is really a mental issue to keep the silence as not much physically reminds me of having had the surgery.

So far, so good. Now 7 days of voice rest, sightseeing and then followup and return flight, hopefully with less interference from stupid people in Bejing who do not know that some people need a lot of medication and an inhalator device to prevent too much dry air from damaging a strained voice.

Greetings

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ImagineKate

Yay Anja!!! I am so excited for you!

Also my date is 25 June. So I will be in Seoul from the 24th and leaving July 4.

The blood workup seems to be standard for most surgeons, they do CBC and other tests. My levels are slightly low but I have an iron deficiency which I am remedying with supplements.
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