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My voice journey

Started by anjaq, November 12, 2013, 06:21:38 PM

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Teslagirl

Hello Anja.

I have just one simple question.

With all that you now know about the results of your surgery, the ups and downs, the pluses and minuses, would you still go ahead if you were making the decision today?

In other words, was it worthwhile to you personally?

Thank you,

Sarah.
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anjaq

To be honest - i would like to wait until the healing is complete after a year to make a final assessment. As of now, it seems to be good - my voice is feminine - i dont worry about the low pitches with male undertones anymore. I feel it is much more "MY" voice than before. To the point I tend to forget how that other voice sounded like and felt like. The only downsides currently (at not even 4 months post op, mind you!) are that it is weak, sometimes breathy or slightly hoarse, that I get a weird sensation on the throatwhen using my voice a lot and that I think my totally relaxed pitch is still a bi low. But I can only comment if those will eventually be issues when the healing is complete. If it stays that way, I would be inclined to say it is a hard choice - its quite a tradeoff then. But I am confident that it will improve and then it is a clear yes to my decision to have the VFS with Dr Kim.

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ReDucks

on the exhalation speed thing, I too wondered about air obstruction from surgery.  I can hear the constriction but I am able to work out and perform at similar levels to my pre-surgery routines.
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anjaq

I have gotten my reply from Yeson about my voice file that I sent in some days ago when I started the Clonazepam. Its F0 is a little bit over 160 Hz. So I was told to keep taking the pills and do my exercises... I have the Clonazepam now for 2 weeks. I did a quick check by recording my normal speaking voice while I was in a conversation today - its F0 was between 160 and 170 Hz. I think in some moments it can be higher, but when I am not controlling it, it seems to stick to that range for now. Sooo - more exercises, more pills, more patience patience patience - I know for some the pitch increase just happens after many months...

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Teslagirl

Quote from: ReDucks on June 18, 2015, 03:27:55 PM
on the exhalation speed thing, I too wondered about air obstruction from surgery.  I can hear the constriction but I am able to work out and perform at similar levels to my pre-surgery routines.

I'm a bit anxious now as I have surgery booked for the 20th July. Both from yours and Anja's posts I'm not entirely sure I'm doing the right thing.
Can I ask you what I asked Anja? If you had to make a decision now, in the light of your knowledge of the results, would you still go ahead?

Thanks,

Sarah.
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ReDucks

Quote from: Teslagirl on June 18, 2015, 05:01:03 PM
I'm a bit anxious now as I have surgery booked for the 20th July. Both from yours and Anja's posts I'm not entirely sure I'm doing the right thing.
Can I ask you what I asked Anja? If you had to make a decision now, in the light of your knowledge of the results, would you still go ahead?

Thanks,

Sarah.

I would have the surgery again in an instant!  It has really helped me achieve a truly female pitch, but it has taken voice therapy with a therapist who works with trans women to achieve a feminine voice.  So many old habits to unlearn, and new habits to form.    As others have said, don't expect too much, you still have to work at achieving a feminine speech pattern and find some way to overcome resonance. 
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anjaq

I know that the surgery worked - higher pitches are sooooo much easier now and just come naturally in many situations. If I say "good bye" to someone its incredibly high and feminine - or if I laugh - or sing along with women and dont have the male undertones. My voice has a totally different "ring" to it now. All of this is totally great and makes me incredibly happy - I just want to say that, because I tend to talk about the remaining problems more than the successes. Just for those things, the surgery is already worth it totally. My voice does not feel to me like a male voice anymore. The areas I do struggle with are the low pitch in everyday speaking situations and the hoarseness/breathiness mostly:

But what is kind of unexpected for me is that I was said to have a female resonance pattern before the surgery, so I sounded feminine in my voice to most. Post op, this seems not not be the right thing to do anymore. I still do it - but it puts me in a similar pitch range as pre op - it will still sound female as before the surgery, but I dont make the most out of the pitch gain with it. I start to think that the goal of the exercises from Yeson is to find me a new feminine resonance pattern (Yeson say "phonation pattern" and tell me I am still using the wrong one). In my perception that pattern seems to be odd and artificial since it seems to basically be the head voice or singing voice that is trained with the Exercises (starting at C4 in pitch and going up to G4). Of course I can talk softly in that range and sound very feminine, but it is quite a conscious act, when I dont watch out, I just drop in my chest voice and am then in the neutral pitch range. I cannot really use that head voice trained in the exercises for regular speech - it is too high. So I consider seeing another voice therapist in my city and see if she can help me to find a good way - but she was really warning me a lot about voice surgeries, so I am not sure she is willing to work with a post op patient seriously - or if she will basically just do something else and whenever something does not work out blame it on the surgery...

I did not expect to be among those VFS patients who had these issues - I feel there are two groups - some who get the new phonation pattern very fast (like Jennygirl, Sarah, Olivia, Jamie, Amy) and others who struggle with this for a longer time. I was hoping to be better in getting this right, given how much I was working on my voice pre op, but maybe its a mental thing, maybe its just still the healing process - I dont know. The variation in how fast the success of this surgery plays out is so huge - 2 months to 12 months. I guess there are many factors involved.

Again - I am happy with many aspects about the surgery but am just mainly angry about myself for not getting how to use this properly. Its like getting a new musical instrument and occasionally I totally hit the right way to use it and it sounds great and then most of the time I fumble around with a slow learning curve  ;) - I should have done this when I was 25 and my brain was not so rigid already...


Oh and the main reason I said I cannot say if I would do this surgery again is: If I would somehow not learn the new phonation pattern, I guess I would have to consider if this still works out well - if the breathiness and hoarseness would persist, I would maybe say that I could also have done the surgery locally on insurance. The main reason to choose Yeson was that I think they do produce a lot less of these dysphonia issues than local doctors. So that is why I said that technically I have to wait until the first 6-12 months are over to see if that can be confirmed. I am confident that it will be , though - everyone else seems to have experienced that dysphonia stuff and it has cleared up with time :) - while locally the patients often reported the dysphonia to persist in the long run, so I am very confident that this was the best choice despite the hickups I have in some aspects. Always remember: Its not even 4 Months! Thats far from the point where my voice is supposed to be healed, so I feel a bit overwhelmed by such a question.

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thegreenrabbit

Quote from: anjaq on June 19, 2015, 04:07:45 AM
   
So I consider seeing another voice therapist in my city and see if she can help me to find a good way - but she was really warning me a lot about voice surgeries, so I am not sure she is willing to work with a post op patient seriously - or if she will basically just do something else and whenever something does not work out blame it on the surgery...
  - I dont know. The variation in how fast the success of this surgery plays out is so huge - 2 months to 12 months. I guess there are many factors involved.

My voice therapist has said that we should disregard most of my previous speech therapy as it is no longer valid. Having had VFS has meant we have started again with the basics of relaxation and breathing. Post VFS is a whole new ball game and requires looking at speech therapy from a new angle.
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anjaq

But what angle is that and who is best qualified to help there? I think even fewer voice therapists have experience with this situation than with a "male to female voice conversion"...

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iKate

Quote from: thegreenrabbit on June 19, 2015, 04:22:30 AM
My voice therapist has said that we should disregard most of my previous speech therapy as it is no longer valid. Having had VFS has meant we have started again with the basics of relaxation and breathing. Post VFS is a whole new ball game and requires looking at speech therapy from a new angle.

Makes sense, which is why I am having surgery first and therapy after. I don't want to have to unlearn and re-learn.
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thegreenrabbit

Quote from: anjaq on June 19, 2015, 04:55:41 AM
But what angle is that and who is best qualified to help there? I think even fewer voice therapists have experience with this situation than with a "male to female voice conversion"...
I actually think that the best therapist to have post VFS is a speech therapist who also deals with professional singers. I don't think that it should necessarly be someone who deals with trans voice.
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anjaq

Actually my voice therapist has a lot of non trans people, and said she is currently not doing any trans related exercises with me. I am not sure if this is so perfect - I somehow need to find my new voice and not improve my old voice. I am confused as to what to aim for. What she does now is mostly relaxation exercises and airflow exercises. I think it is similar to what I saw at least on youtube in the videos that are for singers. So maybe that is just the right track. I clearly can use my upper range very nicely, I am not sure what is happening to the lower parts below G3 or A3 ... I somehow assumed that this would be my speaking range - but maybe I actually have to aim higher because that range is kind of low when I use the head voice but is a bit straining on the voice if I use the chest voice - and also the voice tends to drop even deeper in the chest voice.

Excuse my babbling. I dont really understand right now what is going on with the voice and cannot really describe it. I will just have to try, experiment and do the exercises.

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thegreenrabbit

Yes. Air flow and relaxation, where relaxation is vital.
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Teslagirl

Quote from: anjaq on June 19, 2015, 01:18:56 PM
I clearly can use my upper range very nicely, I am not sure what is happening to the lower parts below G3 or A3 ... I somehow assumed that this would be my speaking range - but maybe I actually have to aim higher because that range is kind of low when I use the head voice but is a bit straining on the voice if I use the chest voice - and also the voice tends to drop even deeper in the chest voice.

Anja, have your work colleagues noticed the difference?
I have just said I will be having vocal chord surgery and let them assume it's due to all the talking I've done in my career.
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anjaq

Some noticed a difference, others not so much. Those who noticed described my voice of being "brighter" ( meaning probably it has less dark undertones and a different ting to it). There wee no comments about pitch change though, so basically I think the story was ok - people know I had a surgery but do not know what exactly it was, just that I had vocal fold asymmetry and inclomplete closure and some over shot growth there. Basicall I still sound very much like before the surgery in terms of how I speak or sound like - the changes most noticeably are those undertones that changed and a little bit of pitch increase. Its not radical change, so people who dont know I had the surgery seem not to notice...

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Teslagirl

I just booked my flight!

Sarah.
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Teslagirl

Quote from: anjaq on June 19, 2015, 04:28:31 PM
Some noticed a difference, others not so much. Those who noticed described my voice of being "brighter" ( meaning probably it has less dark undertones and a different ting to it). There wee no comments about pitch change though, so basically I think the story was ok - people know I had a surgery but do not know what exactly it was, just that I had vocal fold asymmetry and inclomplete closure and some over shot growth there. Basicall I still sound very much like before the surgery in terms of how I speak or sound like - the changes most noticeably are those undertones that changed and a little bit of pitch increase. Its not radical change, so people who dont know I had the surgery seem not to notice...
Anja, I think you mentioned that your vocal folds didn't close properly so that your voice sounded breathy? Did you managed to fix that before you went, or do you think the surgery helped with that aspect? My voice therapist thinks the lack of full closure of my vocal folds is due to one being thicker than the other. She is dubious about Yeson and thinks the surgery might make it worse. Do you know if Yeson can fix problems like this, in addition to their pitch raising surgery?
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anjaq

Hi Sara. Well. I had a double incomplete glottal closure at the beginning. anterior and posterior. I managed with voice therapy to close the anderior gap and reduce the posterior gap a bit. Post op I still do have the posterior gap. My voice specialists here say that it is something that many women have, so they say not to worry about that too much, but we are doing more therapy to fix it, in order to get me more strength in my voice. I dont know if the surgery changed a lot there. Dr kim did a correction of a vocal fold asymmetry though, so at least he seems to think that its possible to improve some issues in addition to pitch with the surgery. I will have examination again at the end of the month, so I can see if the gap has changed in any way or if there is some other issue. Sinc eI am still recovering from the surgery, right now I would say that the surgery made the gap and the breathiness worse - but thats to be excpected given the official healing time is 12 months. If in 8 months the examination will show that my gap has improved, it may well be that the surgery helped with that - or that I finally managed to find a relaxed voice that does not cause my muscles to form that gap anymore.

And congrats on your booking :) - So you are almost on the way then :)

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iKate

Quote from: Teslagirl on June 19, 2015, 06:46:54 PM
I just booked my flight!

Sarah.

Good going, Sarah!

I will be there this week, flying out on Tuesday (US/Eastern time) and arriving in Seoul on Wednesday evening (Seoul time).

Can't wait, but really I can't wait to get over it so I can get back on my E and begin the healing process.
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Teslagirl

Quote from: iKate on June 20, 2015, 05:18:05 PM

I will be there this week, flying out on Tuesday (US/Eastern time) and arriving in Seoul on Wednesday evening (Seoul time).

Can't wait, but really I can't wait to get over it so I can get back on my E and begin the healing process.

That's great Kate! Where are you staying? I don't know whether to stay at the Phil House and be more autonomous  with regard to cooking and storing ice cream(!) or have an easier life by staying in a hotel close to the clinic. Quite frankly, Korea scares me a little as I don't know the language and the MERS thing is possibly more of a danger if we used public transport a lot.
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