How can a lesbian still call herself a lesbian while dating transmen

[aleon515]

One reason this situation may come up is that it is often massively hard to come out to people as gay.  Many people lose friends and family, jobs, etc.  They may even find it hard to accept it themselves, but eventually do.  Now imagine that one day they meet someone of the opposite gender but same birth sex and become attracted to that person.  It can be devastating to come to terms that that may mean that in fact they are not "really gay" after all and can be very hard to lose the label without feeling like they went through hell to not feel ashamed of their sexuality just to end up in what you may consider a "straight relationship."  I'm not saying you have to be in a relationship with one.  Or that you should be forced to feel any less of a man because someone calls themselves a lesbian and is attracted to you.  Just trying to give another perspective on the situation.

There's also a community there, and some lesbians-- all their friends come from that community and so on. I think your self identification is very important.

But I think some trans guys are very binary (not a criticism, just a statement) and could not date a lesbian. I could as long as that person saw me as male, but I do consider myself trans and not strictly male, but I know there are huge differences in how trans people see themselves.

It may not be for you, but try and open your mind as to why this might be okay for others.

I also see why this is offensive to you, but I think a lot of people are not strictly completely lesbian, they may be a little bi or even pan, so that they see trans men as ok. It's nothing against you personally. But you don't have to date that person either.



--Jay

[Nygeel]

Question to the trans women responding:

Would you be uncomfortable dating a gay man? I find that a lot of the time people say it's okay for trans men but when it comes to trans women people think "no way!"

[Brandon]

Brandon, you don't get to define peoples sexual orientation for them based solely on their actions.  Until you can read peoples minds, best to leave that up to the people themselves.

Well then they will just be lying to themselves, I'm sorry you guys don't seem to get why its offensive

[Brandon]

I understand how it can be very offensive and hurtful, but I think it's a lot more simple than that (sorry if I'm wrong though) I think that basically these women are lesbians not because they dislike masculinity but because they dislike penises, hence they can fall in love/have sex with anyone who doesn't have one. It also depends on the type of relationship: long term vs one night stand because there's romantic orientation vs sexual orientation to take into account. For example some people are bisexual but are heteroromantic or homoromantic meaning that they can only fall in love or have a serious relationship with one gender but wouldn't mind doing neither on the side. Some people are aromantic but are either heterosexual or homosexual etc For some people genitals are a more important part of their sexuality than gender, and that should be understood and respected. Some people are really turned off by either vaginas or  penises idependently of the gender who has them.

Thankyou I agree also

[Danielle Emmalee]

Well then they will just be lying to themselves, I'm sorry you guys don't seem to get why its offensive

You have much to learn.  I see no point in continuing this discussion. 

[Brandon]

I think the majority of people are generally mis-informed on what it means to be a trans-man,as you put it. If someone who is sexually attracted to female body parts reads being a trans man as "a man with a female body" to them it is still fair game? ( Not that we are animals to be hunted or anything but you get my drift) while offensive I find it hard to get mad at those people who assume this because it is purely ignorance. On the other hand if those same people ARE properly educated on trans-men and still fail to acknowledge that they are male I would find that HIGHLY offensive.  But, I do disagree on your "fully heterosexual" "fully homosexual" argument.

What if you identified as a straight male met someone on-line whom you fell in love with but they turned out to be a male, would that make you a homosexual? or vice-versa  I don't think so . As others before me have said, gender and sexuality are more then what can be defined into words, labels and categories. Even though we are taught to believe otherwise. I love my wife, would that love just disappear if she came out to me as a transsexual. No not at all, but that doesn't make me any less of a heterosexual man. I can see a man walking down the street and appreciate his looks without calling into question my sexual identity. Break outside of the box man

Bro I know what i like, And it's definately women with out being to explicit, I don't agree with that argument either,  Honedtly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place, But other than that I agree with everything else

[Brandon]

Question to the trans women responding:

Would you be uncomfortable dating a gay man? I find that a lot of the time people say it's okay for trans men but when it comes to trans women people think "no way!"

Even though 'm a guy, I have actually heard alot of gay men say no to that because their women

[Joe.]

I understand why you find it offensive Brandon. And I'd question why a lesbian would want to get with me, being a transman. However there are many transmen that were in a relationship with a lesbian before they came out, but still remain together and the partner still keeps their lesbian identity, they just happen to have fallen in love with a man. I believe that you can be 100% straight or gay but still fall for someone of the same/opposite sex, it just takes an incredibly special person.

Sexuality is different for everybody. I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong, but you asked for our opinions and when we give them to you you tell us we're wrong. When you do that it seriously makes me question why you start threads in the first place.

[Brandon]

There's also a community there, and some lesbians-- all their friends come from that community and so on. I think your self identification is very important.

But I think some trans guys are very binary (not a criticism, just a statement) and could not date a lesbian. I could as long as that person saw me as male, but I do consider myself trans and not strictly male, but I know there are huge differences in how trans people see themselves.

It may not be for you, but try and open your mind as to why this might be okay for others.

I also see why this is offensive to you, but I think a lot of people are not strictly completely lesbian, they may be a little bi or even pan, so that they see trans men as ok. It's nothing against you personally. But you don't have to date that person either.



--Jay

Well no bisexuals and pansexuals are just fine, I'm talking about the ones who identify as strictly lesbian

[Brandon]

I understand why you find it offensive Brandon. And I'd question why a lesbian would want to get with me, being a transman. However there are many transmen that were in a relationship with a lesbian before they came out, but still remain together and the partner still keeps their lesbian identity, they just happen to have fallen in love with a man. I believe that you can be 100% straight or gay but still fall for someone of the same/opposite sex, it just takes an incredibly special person.

Sexuality is different for everybody. I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong, but you asked for our opinions and when we give them to you you tell us we're wrong. When you do that it seriously makes me question why you start threads in the first place.

I mean if you were with him before he identified as trans then that's different, I'm talking about the ones who say they find Cis men disgusting but date transmen, Or say I only date women and transmen, Were all men and Just because were transmen doesn't mean were not nor is everyguy cis or trans disgusting

[Joe.]

I mean if you were with him before he identified as trans then that's different, I'm talking about the ones who say they find Cis men disgusting but date transmen, Or say I only date women and transmen, Were all men and Just because were transmen doesn't mean were not nor is everyguy cis or trans disgusting

Thanks for clearing that up

[Brandon]

Thanks for clearing that up

No problem Man!

[em444]

I'm glad I didn't sound too crazy. the last thing you posted comes back to what I said: they probably find cis guys disgusting either because of their penis (and not because of being men/males, which hence would justify the trans man exception) or because they have the idea that maybe trans men have a less misogynist mentality or that they can understand women (or even people in general) better since they have had a broader range  of experiences in life, have probably faced discrimination etc which should make them more understanding.
As for sexuality, again, I'm gonna sound really crazy but I think nothing  is written in stone when it comes to that. If you think about it, the fact that we can be turned on by a sex toy, by ourselves (through masturbation) by inanimate objects, by vibrations, by thoughts, should mean that at least in principle we can receive pleasure from anyone no matter the gender. The sexual preference appears mostly because of boundaries and tastes that are learnt or formed during childhood (of course genes and  hormones may have a role in pushing people more towards one end than another). Human sexuality is incredibly fluid, the body itself is pansexual, what has a preference is the mind and minds are incredibly flexible and can easily change. If you count the heart and love and personality in the equation, it is even more complex (consider again asexual people who fall in love). So I guess I can see both sides of the issue here, but again I totally understand why it is offensive, but the thing is that deep down, no one is strictly straight or gay, they just have a very strong preference and haven't been through the kind of experiences that would be stronger than those preferences or that would change them,  but it's all kind of a spectrum with no real limits. All the gay people I know have liked at least once someone from the  opposite sex, at least before they realized they were gay, and most straight people I know have at least once questioned whether they could be bi or gay. Actually experimentation is considered normal even among the most traditional binary/cis/heteronormative heterosexuals. One day, there might be genderless or bigendered sex robots and I bet most people will like playing with those

[aleon515]

I mean if you were with him before he identified as trans then that's different, I'm talking about the ones who say they find Cis men disgusting but date transmen, Or say I only date women and transmen, Were all men and Just because were transmen doesn't mean were not nor is everyguy cis or trans disgusting

I'd tell them no, I'm not interested. But as others said, they might feel men are more misognyist or whatever. I think it's hard to feel like you would be respected in such a situation. I agree though that some people might not be as strictly lesbian (or whatever). But again, if you see yourself 100% male (which it sounds like you do), it's hard to feel like you would be okay in this situation.


--Jay

[Brandon]

I'm glad I didn't sound too crazy. the last thing you posted comes back to what I said: they probably find cis guys disgusting either because of their penis (and not because of being men/males, which hence would justify the trans man exception) or because they have the idea that maybe trans men have a less misogynist mentality or that they can understand women (or even people in general) better since they have had a broader range  of experiences in life, have probably faced discrimination etc which should make them more understanding.
As for sexuality, again, I'm gonna sound really crazy but I think nothing  is written in stone when it comes to that. If you think about it, the fact that we can be turned on by a sex toy, by ourselves (through masturbation) by inanimate objects, by vibrations, by thoughts, should mean that at least in principle we can receive pleasure from anyone no matter the gender. The sexual preference appears mostly because of boundaries and tastes that are learnt or formed during childhood (of course genes and  hormones may have a role in pushing people more towards one end than another). Human sexuality is incredibly fluid, the body itself is pansexual, what has a preference is the mind and minds are incredibly flexible and can easily change. If you count the heart and love and personality in the equation, it is even more complex (consider again asexual people who fall in love). So I guess I can see both sides of the issue here, but again I totally understand why it is offensive, but the thing is that deep down, no one is strictly straight or gay, they just have a very strong preference and haven't been through the kind of experiences that would be stronger than those preferences or that would change them,  but it's all kind of a spectrum with no real limits. All the gay people I know have liked at least once someone from the  opposite sex, at least before they realized they were gay, and most straight people I know have at least once questioned whether they could be bi or gay. Actually experimentation is considered normal even among the most traditional binary/cis/heteronormative heterosexuals. One day, there might be genderless or bigendered sex robots and I bet most people will like playing with those

I agree with everything else besides the fully straight fully gay thing, Everyone is not pan, Because I know I like one thing and one thing only and I don't think I have to explain what it is nor others,  I'm fully straighr, The thought of anything else disgust me, But if you in to that then so be it, I'm sure I'm not the only straight guy to agree, No offenc to gay males though just not my cup of tea

[Brandon]

I'd tell them no, I'm not interested. But as others said, they might feel men are more misognyist or whatever. I think it's hard to feel like you would be respected in such a situation. I agree though that some people might not be as strictly lesbian (or whatever). But again, if you see yourself 100% male (which it sounds like you do), it's hard to feel like you would be okay in this situation.


--Jay

I agree 100%

[thatboyfresh]

Bro I know what i like, And it's definately women with out being to explicit, I don't agree with that argument either,  Honedtly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place, But other than that I agree with everything else

Exactly you know what YOU like that's not what I am disputing. It's what others like that seem to have you confused. For instance. Do you go out expecting to fall in love and be attracted to every female person you meet? People cant help what they are attracted to ( for the most part) yes we have preferences and our own ideals of what makes a perfect partner or who we want to be with. Just like someone who identifies as homosexual woman who has never dated a male might not go out "looking" for love or a relationship with a male but might happen to find it and develop it through friendship, co-work or random chance. Then maybe they realize that a heterosexual relationship isn't for them after all. Are you the one who get's to say that they are not a "homosexual" because they don't live to your standards STRICTLY adhering to the policy you explained as "Honestly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place"

[wheat thins are delicious]

Even though 'm a guy, I have actually heard alot of gay men say no to that because their women

That wasn't the question he was asking though.  Of course a gay man wouldn't typically be interested in a trans woman.

Bro I know what i like, And it's definately women with out being to explicit, I don't agree with that argument either,  Honedtly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place, But other than that I agree with everything else

Ever hear of pegging?

[Danielle Emmalee]

It might be a good idea to remember that there are underage members here, including the OP

[MadelineB]

Two factors I haven't seen addressed here:
1. There remains an enormous stigma on being bisexual in both the lesbian and gay communities.
Most lesbians and gays categorically refuse to date or have relationships with people they consider bisexual. They regard bisexuals as promiscuous, lying, deceiving heart breakers who are selfish in bed and will leave you when they decide to return to their boyfriend or girlfriend, or just go back to their two timing slutty bi ways.
I wish I was kidding. So there is a huge temptation to want to be in a relationship with a trans person but still avoid the bi stigma by any means necessary.
2. Romantic orientation and sexual orientation are not always the same. I have had plenty of gay guys fall for me, but they can't deal with the fact I intend to have bottom surgery. Many MTFs are in relationships with gay men when they come out as trans. Some stay together but most don't make it, often because the physical attraction stops with physical transition.
3. Both romantic and physical attraction depend on experience. They are not abstract. People decide what to call their orientation after they have been exposed to potential attractions, and usually trial relationships, and become confident in the pattern. Most people have not known trans men and trans women as potential partners and won't know if they are attracted romantically or sexually until they are.
4. It is very common for people's horizons to expand after being close enough to a trans person who is their type romantically and/or sexually. If we deny the possibility of lesbians or gays (in the sense of almost never attracted to opposite sex cisgender people) being attracted to the opposite sex transgender individual, then we also negate the experience of straight people (in the sense of almost never being attracted to same sex cisgender people) who find themselves attracted to same sex trabsgender individuals. And we may negate the experiences of trans* people who discover they are also trans-only bisexual.
There isn't a word for trans-only bisexual, but maybe there should be.

I dated and almost married a trans man this year. He was the most essentially male person I have ever known. I would absolutely consider spending my life with a man who is trans.
Being with him was the catalyst for going from "i might be bi" to "i know i am bi".
But I understand why a woman could love a trans man while seeing him as a man, even though she can't stand straight cis guys, and so would keep calling herself a lesbian to avoid her inner biphobia and external biphobia.