How can a lesbian still call herself a lesbian while dating transmen

[yaka]

As pointed out by MadelineB, Biphobia is the underlying reason, IMO. Being seen as bisexual, especially in LGBT community, is like a cop out. Reaping the best benefits of being straight and gay while avoiding the oppression and discrimination gays face. I agree it sounds like self proclaimed lesbians who date transguys are kidding themselves. Why not ask her 'If you are solely attracted to women, why are you attracted to me? Do you see me as a woman and not a man?". Hopefully they'll realise their fallacy.

As for the 'best of both worlds' comments, unfortunately this is something you'll come across a lot in the people who are interested in us, whether they're straight, bi or gay. Barring surgeries, we may look like men but are slightly different, and these differences play a part in how we are viewed by others.

[Brandon]

As pointed out by MadelineB, Biphobia is the underlying reason, IMO. Being seen as bisexual, especially in LGBT community, is like a cop out. Reaping the best benefits of being straight and gay while avoiding the oppression and discrimination gays face. I agree it sounds like self proclaimed lesbians who date transguys are kidding themselves. Why not ask her 'If you are solely attracted to women, why are you attracted to me? Do you see me as a woman and not a man?". Hopefully they'll realise their fallacy.

As for the 'best of both worlds' comments, unfortunately this is something you'll come across a lot in the people who are interested in us, whether they're straight, bi or gay. Barring surgeries, we may look like men but are slightly different, and these differences play a part in how we are viewed by others.

I agree good point

[kaiju]

Seconding the biphobia theory and then some. Lesbians tend to look at trans men as "safe" territory, thinking that someone born with female parts/living a female life will be more sensitive to their issues while adding the benefits of looking straight to social circles etc. A lot of these women are just ignorant about trans people and lack the understanding that everyone has a unique experience/view on being trans etc, hence singling out trans men while rebuffing trans women. Parts(or assumed parts) and how they work play a big role in this, as well. There's just this big assumption that all trans men have vaginas and breasts and that they're just playing dress up and vice versa for trans women. If you're attracted to certain parts, and you assume that someone you might find attractive has them, you might pursue them regardless of what they say or feel. It's...an issue I find to be complicated and hard to describe.

That being said, I do find it offensive when lesbians single out trans men as a special gender and chase them for dating, especially while rebuffing trans women and bashing guys who have medically transitioned etc. Thankfully, I've not had this happen to me, but I've seen other people get "chased" and it is unnerving.

What I have to disagree with, though, is disputing one's sexuality based on what they find pleasurable in the bedroom and stating that straight men/women cannot have successful relationships with trans people and still be straight. I know plenty of straight dudes that like pegging/having their girlfriends top them in the bedroom sometimes. And there are lesbians who really enjoy penetration etc. The sexual act itself does not determine the person you're attracted to, kiddo. If you're not keen on ~the buttsex~ or any other form of penetration, don't do it. You know what you like, and that's what's important. Just don't pin your preferences on other people and try to relabel their sexuality. Just don't.

And then there are also many successful relationships between cis and trans people. Trans men are men, and trans women are women. No dispute there. I tend to view it like this: even cis people have varied bodies. If a straight chick gets to know a trans dude and he comes out to her when she expresses interest and it doesn't put her off, it doesn't make her bisexual or pansexual. Only she can determine that for herself. She's gotten to know this guy, she likes him. Hell, maybe she loves him and views him as a normal human being who isn't just his parts. Is there really anything wrong with that?

[brayden4]

I only date straight women and bi women

No fully straight person would fall in love with same sex, No fully homosexual person would fall in love with the opposite sex, Chances are you were never hetero/gay from the start

You seem to have somewhat contradicted yourself. If the strict "attraction rules" you say really do apply, then without bottom surgery how would you be able to date someone who identifies as "straight" seeing as there is no penis?

Chances are if she is attracted to strictly people with penises she wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't have one. If she is attracted to someone without a penis "by strict social standards" she wouldn't be able to still label herself as straight. Another example why sometimes labels don't strictly adhere to everyone and that sexuality can be fluid, that sex and gender can be two separate things when it comes to be attracted to someone. The same as it is when we figure out were trans, sex and gender can be separate even if it doesn't add up to what "social standards" believe it to be

[aleon515]

Another reason: Lesbians might think that trans guys would be more sympathetic and less like jerks than other guys, since they have experienced life as they other gender. We are all different, of course, I like to think I'm not a jerk, but tbh, some trans guys are jerks. Of course, most of us have had an odd experience of never really fitting into or being the gender we were supposedly born into.

--Jay

[Magnus]

I was actually told what I was by a lesbian teacher's aide in the 10th. She'd thought I was lesbian (*sigh*). When I denied it (I in fact being Asexual or rather Non-Sexual to the hilt), then she told me I must be transsexual (I didn't know what that was before). And then she further clarified that in general, gays/lesbians and transsexuals did not like each other very much because they viewed us as the same but with conflicting views or interpretations. As if we're simply gay but in such even disgusted denial we go through reassignment to escape it... I of course disagree because that is simply and absolutely not true. We are also not the same (unless gay/lesbian too, I'll hasten to clarify). And being Asexual/Non-Sexual, that's an entirely objective POV.

As already mentioned, sexual orientation has nothing at all to do with gender identity. But it does just go to show that most people will never have occasion to personally figure that out for themselves. The exhausting majority of people are not even aware of their gender identity, so long as it doesn't clash with themselves in every way possible like it regrettably does for all of us, they're blissfully and totally unaware of its existence if everything's a matching suit of aces.

Some people are just really ignorant and need a special dismissal for their errors. They don't understand and so really they should not be discussing matters they know nothing about (but in general, humans are dumb creatures as a whole. We think we know everything when we really know next to nothing. Enter in all of the messed up ->-bleeped-<-e that happens in this world because of our 'supreme intelligence'.... well, sorry to say, it's because of that we're the cause not the solution to this mess of a world).

If I were sexual-anything, I would be highly affronted to be accepted as a partner simply because "you're not technically a man"... no matter what small degree of truth that would retain, it would deeply offend me. Like saying because a lesbian undoubtedly has had PIV even just once before, they're not actually lesbian. That kind of blatant ignorance cuts both ways, babe.

[Brandon]

You seem to have somewhat contradicted yourself. If the strict "attraction rules" you say really do apply, then without bottom surgery how would you be able to date someone who identifies as "straight" seeing as there is no penis?

Chances are if she is attracted to strictly people with penises she wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't have one. If she is attracted to someone without a penis "by strict social standards" she wouldn't be able to still label herself as straight. Another example why sometimes labels don't strictly adhere to everyone and that sexuality can be fluid, that sex and gender can be two separate things when it comes to be attracted to someone. The same as it is when we figure out were trans, sex and gender can be separate even if it doesn't add up to what "social standards" believe it to be

If a straight girl dates me shes still straight its not like I'm having sex right know anyways, I'm to uncomfortable with that, I have had straight girls like me, I am a dude, If anything your trying to turn this around back on me, And FYI a clitoris is basically a penis so your point

[Brandon]

I was actually told what I was by a lesbian teacher's aide in the 10th. She'd thought I was lesbian (*sigh*). When I denied it (I in fact being Asexual or rather Non-Sexual to the hilt), then she told me I must be transsexual (I didn't know what that was before). And then she further clarified that in general, gays/lesbians and transsexuals did not like each other very much because they viewed us as the same but with conflicting views or interpretations. As if we're simply gay but in such even disgusted denial we go through reassignment to escape it... I of course disagree because that is simply and absolutely not true. We are also not the same (unless gay/lesbian too, I'll hasten to clarify). And being Asexual/Non-Sexual, that's an entirely objective POV.

As already mentioned, sexual orientation has nothing at all to do with gender identity. But it does just go to show that most people will never have occasion to personally figure that out for themselves. The exhausting majority of people are not even aware of their gender identity, so long as it doesn't clash with themselves in every way possible like it regrettably does for all of us, they're blissfully and totally unaware of its existence if everything's a matching suit of aces.

Some people are just really ignorant and need a special dismissal for their errors. They don't understand and so really they should not be discussing matters they know nothing about (but in general, humans are dumb creatures as a whole. We think we know everything when we really know next to nothing. Enter in all of the messed up ->-bleeped-<-e that happens in this world because of our 'supreme intelligence'.... well, sorry to say, it's because of that we're the cause not the solution to this mess of a world).

If I were sexual-anything, I would be highly affronted to be accepted as a partner simply because "you're not technically a man"... no matter what small degree of truth that would retain, it would deeply offend me. Like saying because a lesbian undoubtedly has had PIV even just once before, they're not actually lesbian. That kind of blatant ignorance cuts both w

ays,



I agree

[Brandon]

You seem to have somewhat contradicted yourself. If the strict "attraction rules" you say really do apply, then without bottom surgery how would you be able to date someone who identifies as "straight" seeing as there is no penis?

Chances are if she is attracted to strictly people with penises she wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't have one. If she is attracted to someone without a penis "by strict social standards" she wouldn't be able to still label herself as straight. Another example why sometimes labels don't strictly adhere to everyone and that sexuality can be fluid, that sex and gender can be two separate things when it comes to be attracted to someone. The same as it is when we figure out were trans, sex and gender can be separate even if it doesn't add up to what "social standards" believe it to be

And I don't think lesbians who use strap ons are really les, That's a straight thing that's a mans job

[brayden4]

If a straight girl dates me shes still straight its not like I'm having sex right know anyways, I'm to uncomfortable with that, I have had straight girls like me, I am a dude, If anything your trying to turn this around back on me, And FYI a clitoris is basically a penis so your point

My point what? I've taken biology, I know that all sexual organs are made of the same material, but doesn't mean that every ciswoman has a penis either.
And if you say that a straight person can date a transman (pre-op) and still be labeled as straight, then I pretty much rest my case, a lesbian can also date a transman and still be labeled as lesbian.

Basically, people can label themselves as what they feel comfortable as despite what anyone else thinks they should be dating based off said label. They don't need people telling them who they can date based on what label they feel more comfortable with. Labels don't matter, were all human

[brayden4]

And I don't think lesbians who use strap ons are really les, That's a straight thing that's a mans job

It's not up to you to decide how someone can label themselves for how they like to get their rocks off, its none of your business what they do behind closed doors

[wheat thins are delicious]

And I don't think lesbians who use strap ons are really les, That's a straight thing that's a mans job

Women who like women are lesbians.  How they use their parts and what toys they add in there has nothing to do with their sexuality.  That's like saying you can't possibly be a man because you don't have a penis to do the "man's job".

[Ludwig]

The entire topic saddens me.  All I can say, Brandon, is never lock the door on love.  We transgenders are, as a group, generally lonely people.  And when we find loving friends - and it doesn't matter what color, creed, gender, sex, or orientation - it is best to do all we can keep them.

You are destined to be alone.  It breaks my heart.

[Brandon]

My point what? I've taken biology, I know that all sexual organs are made of the same material, but doesn't mean that every ciswoman has a penis either.
And if you say that a straight person can date a transman (pre-op) and still be labeled as straight, then I pretty much rest my case, a lesbian can also date a transman and still be labeled as lesbian.

Basically, people can label themselves as what they feel comfortable as despite what anyone else thinks they should be dating based off said label. They don't need people telling them who they can date based on what label they feel more comfortable with. Labels don't matter, were all human

No I don't think you don't understand why I find it offensive, You obviously don't consider yourself 100% man if a straight woman dates me she's still straight doesn't the brain make males males, A penis is just a sexual characteristing of a male, Their is no real biological difference between a penis or clitoris, All I'm sayin is son't leabians date women not men

[Brandon]

The entire topic saddens me.  All I can say, Brandon, is never lock the door on love.  We transgenders are, as a group, generally lonely people.  And when we find loving friends - and it doesn't matter what color, creed, gender, sex, or orientation - it is best to do all we can keep them.

You are destined to be alone.  It breaks my heart.

I'm not gonna be alone, I just won't date a lesbian, Your the reson no one takes us seriously, If you feel your a man and know why not go for bi or straight women

[Brandon]

All I'm saying is being trans is already confusing enough so why add on to it, Think about your suppose to be a so called man but your dating lesbians or your suppose be 100% lesbian who dates men, That's again adding on to the confusion

[brayden4]

No I don't think you don't understand why I find it offensive, You obviously don't consider yourself 100% man if a straight woman dates me she's still straight doesn't the brain make males males, A penis is just a sexual characteristing of a male, Their is no real biological difference between a penis or clitoris, All I'm sayin is son't leabians date women not men

Honestly I don't care who you date, I just don't understand why you care so much who someone else dates based on their label. But just to throw it out there someone may label themselves as lesbian based on what "part" they prefer rather than what "gender" they prefer. And I'm not even gonna comment too much on you saying I'm not man because obviously your ignorance is showing through anyways, I don't have to prove much of a point against you.

[Brandon]

That's actually one of the reasons my peers started to take me seriously, And it made since that I wouldn't date a lesbian, Its like the pregnant man, My cousin doesn't take transmen seriously for that reason, I personally agree a man shouldn't carry a baby same thing

[Brandon]

Honestly I don't care who you date, I just don't understand why you care so much who someone else dates based on their label. But just to throw it out there someone may label themselves as lesbian based on what "part" they prefer rather than what "gender" they prefer. And I'm not even gonna comment too much on you saying I'm not man because obviously your ignorance is showing through anyways, I don't have to prove much of a point against you.
[/quote


You don't get it and probally never will but thats ok

[brayden4]

That's actually one of the reasons my peers started to take me seriously, And it made since that I wouldn't date a lesbian, Its like the pregnant man, My cousin doesn't take transmen seriously for that reason, I personally agree a man shouldn't carry a baby same thing

I can agree with you on the baby thing, it can be very confusing for some and even trip people out at times, seeing man and then looking down at a pregnant belly. Personally it's not something I would do but a man will do what he thinks is best for his family and if getting pregnant to start a family is what the couple thinks is best for them, then who am I to judge their decision