apparatus of the state as God

[The Middle Way]

Ok, a second new thread offsprung from the no forgiveness genre...

Say you have a state apparatus which closely ties itself to a religion that has, as its most essential moral principle, this commandment: THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Say that commandment has a period at the end of the sentence.

Now, let's say that you at least assert that you believe in the above system, for what it's worth. And that you believe that it comes from the top, your GOD.

UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES is it morally correct for this apparatus to take any individual's life, and still be reconcilable with your belief system?

Or, is this sort of system subject to the convenience of your interpretation, according to some other set of abstractions?

NOTA

[cindianna_jones]

According to the rule, there would be no reason, occasion, or justification to kill.

Wouldn't that be something.

Cindi

[The Middle Way]

I'd think that according to the language, it's pretty daggum simple. But, you got "Christians", practically as we speak, speaking in favor of this barbaric practice. Just look below.

NOTA

[cindianna_jones]

below what?

[The Middle Way]

Here, there, around and about. On your screen of any description. Not the point. The point is: is your belief system coherent, according to your Christ's teachings; do you forgive?

Or is it just a lot of talk.

NOTA

That's a universal 'your', btw.

[RebeccaFog]

UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES is it morally correct for this apparatus to take any individual's life, and still be reconcilable with your belief system?

Or, is this sort of system subject to the convenience of your interpretation, according to some other set of abstractions?

NOTA

It will never be morally correct under any circumstances for the apparatus to take any individual's life and still be reconcilable with my belief system?

   I would also like to comment that I make a lot of statements on this site about how I do not agree with concepts like taking lives or holding grudges. I do not wish for people to think that I don't want to kill others at times. Now and then I have a thought about how it would be better if we killed this person or that person in order to stop an evil or to keep them from harming anyone again or sometimes even for driving badly. I have determined after years of consideration that no matter how I feel or think, there is no excuse for some actions.
   I will never agree to kill someone because I think it would be a good thing to do. If I think or feel that something is good or justified, it doesn't mean it's right. I guess I've come to understand that my actions must be based on certain beliefs that are beyond my own feelings.

[cindianna_jones]

My belief system is not coherent.  I will admit that.  But since I don't force it down anyone else's throat, I have no problems with it.  I'm content with my belief

I do believe that it is wrong to kill.  Every human life has just as much a right to exist as mine. That is a fundamental belief that I do have.

[The Middle Way]

I am not asking for ultimate coherence from anyone. But this is very simple, very basic.

If your basic tenets have: Thou Shalt Not Kill, and Love Thy Neighbor as you would yourself...

and you BELIEVE these ideas, then you cannot then say: 'I am for the state putting people to death'.

And not be lying to yourself.

[RebeccaFog]

I am not asking for ultimate coherence from anyone. But this is very simple, very basic.

If your basic tenets have: Thou Shalt Not Kill, and Love Thy Neighbor as you would yourself...

and you BELIEVE these ideas, then you cannot then say: 'I am for the state putting people of any kind to death'.

And not be lying to yourself.

I am not for the state, any state anywhere in existence, putting people to death.

why do you keep yelling at me  about it?        I think I'm  agreeing with  you.       

[The Middle Way]

The 'you' is generic, which I pointed out above. +, I'm not actually yelling. *Virtual* 'yelling' is probably indicated by the convention of all caps.

(I'm sorry if you feel it's directed towards you, Becky, it so isn't. Why would it be, even? It's ironic how you are hyper-sensitive, indicating a very active conscience, while it's possible that where this needs to be heard is choosing to ignore it.)

We're on the verge of a theocracy here, they want to call it a Christian Religion-based system, and it's a lie. There might be people I actually like, a lot, that refuse to examine the thinking behind a lot of what goes on, for whatever reason, and I am, very repetitively now, pointing out the obvious.

I bet it's not as loud as the other side's voice, even so.




I'll shut up about it now.

[RebeccaFog]

I know you weren't yelling at me.  You just came across a little stern and I thought I'd  get a little dramatic.  Heh heh.  and you believed it.  I'm a better actor than I thought.


Thank you all for the kind applause.

[The Middle Way]

I hope I came across as forcefully as I had hoped.

[RebeccaFog]

I hope I came across as forcefully as I had hoped.

You did.

Now, stop yelling at me     

[The Middle Way]

That's using an amplifier, not yelling.

[RebeccaFog]

That's using an amplifier, not yelling.

I'm sorry.