How important is it really?

[androgynouspainter26]

Catharine,

That's simply not true though!  It feels nice and liberating to say "I don't care about all of that, so long as I'M happy, but in the end, that's untrue!  No gender-nonspecific person is an island, and I think the reason this process has been hardest on me personally is because of how isolating it all can be. 

I desperately cling to this notion that some day, with enough money to invest in my face I'll be able to pass, even though it's probably a pipe dream, and the reason I do so is because I personally can't make it through my life alone.  I'm sure I'll one day realize that it's out of reach, and when I do, it'll crush me...or perhaps I'm just being morbid.  But anyways...If you can be your own is;and, I admire your strength, but pride isn't enough for me personally.

[Heather]

I agree.

But...

When I pass, I am treated differently. I wish I didn't totally bask in being treated by members of my new gender as if I were totally one of them, but it really is like no feeling on earth.

I hate the whole word pass. It's like your saying I'm pretending to be something! When a woman goes out in public she's just being herself and not every person is treated the same way it really depends on whole lot of factors than than looking male or female age and attractiveness play a big role. While yes when people know your trans they can treat you different at first. I'm out at work and for the most part I'm pretty much treated as one of the women. We have girl talk we talk about men and dating the point is it basically comes down to the person you are is why people treat you the way they do. Even if your trans a lot of people will over look it if you show them your not what they see on TV.

[suzifrommd]

I hate the whole word pass.

Is there another word you would suggest to describe our effort to make it so that our passage from one sex to another is not the first thing people notice when they meet us?

[Heather]

Is there another word you would suggest to describe our effort to make it so that our passage from one sex to another is not the first thing people notice when they meet us?

Yes I do it's called living and it's all how you look at things. But passing and passage are two separate words and are used to mean completely separate things. And besides how do you ever really know your being seen as the gender you want them to see you as? Unless you can read minds you never really know. So that's why I say at some point you just start living because really did you transition for other people or did you transition to be yourself?

[valsharae]

Yes I do it's called living and it's all how you look at things. But passing and passage are two separate words and are used to mean completely separate things. And besides how do you ever really know your being seen as the gender you want them to see you as? Unless you can read minds you never really know. So that's why I say at some point you just start living because really did you transition for other people or did you transition to be yourself?

I transition for myself!

Society/media makes women feel like they aren't a woman unless they are very beautiful with nice asses, nice boobs, and a nice feminine face free of wrinkles and with lots of makeup. They spend all their money always achieving that perfection that they might not even reach and then become frustrated, angry, and fearful. Society only knows one kind of woman. It disregards the whole spectrum of women out there. From what I hear, this is more rampant in the United States than other countries/tribes/cultures. I think United Kingdom is one country that doesn't stress so much on this beauty thing.

[valsharae]

Desiring to look beautiful and feminine is a good idea. If you can pass you can pass, but if you can't pass then what? Will you start hating yourself or will you accept yourself? Beauty is but a temporary condition in youth. What would you do when you grow old, wrinkly, and have white hair?


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[brianna1016]

Passing to myself is the only person I worry about. As long as I am true to myself who cares what others think. I am a confident woman full of self worth and finally free.

Sooo true for me as well. Every day I like what I see more and more! 

[androgynouspainter26]

It's really easy to be happy with yourself-but when you live in a world where people like us can get killed for just walking down the street, or live the rest of your life alone because there is nobody out there who can overlook how your genetics have betrayed you-I don't care for my body, but that's not why I want to pass or why I feel like my transition has failed in many ways.  It's because I'm still treated as less than a human being, and I still feel like a fake woman on account of that.  No person is an island, and even if you love yourself many of us still aren't complete until we are loved.

[mrs izzy]

I feel ones life is ones life.

If you spend all your time running through a field of flowers you will never see or smell the beauty.

I gave up early on what the community says we must pass!

I am me. I am female. I hold my personal values. I learned to trust my confidence.

I kept myself out of areas i felt unsafe. I looked back in the community for a relationship.

Today its all done, friends, family, spouse and children.

So stop running and doing what you think you are supposed to do and live in the moment of beautiful flowers and lovely smells. (metaphorically speaking)

No one needs to know who does not need to know.

You are you.

[androgynouspainter26]

Listen.  I respect people who only care about loving themselvs, I really do.  But I have a career to worry about.  I'm a professional artist, and the theatre world is NOT as accepting as you'd think.  My "community" doesn't seem to give a damn about me, especialy when it comes to dating.  I can't just stay away from places I feel unsafe either, I live in New York City.  I can't really live in the moment when the moment is excruciatingly painful. 

[Lostkitten]

I think passing is overrated. People who now look at me sometimes tell it is easy for me to say but they do not know me in real life. I am tall, stand out and not to forget to mention that a year ago or two I heard quite short hair and also wore feminine clothing. As soon as you start to not care as much anymore it becomes less of a problem. That is if you really don't care, and don't pretend to, to get off the negativity easier.

As what you want to pass anyway? Even everyday women get all kind of complaints for not looking exactly like the perfect standards. And even perfect standards depend on each his or her opinion o.o.

[mrs izzy]

Listen.  I respect people who only care about loving themselvs, I really do.  But I have a career to worry about.  I'm a professional artist, and the theatre world is NOT as accepting as you'd think.  My "community" doesn't seem to give a damn about me, especialy when it comes to dating.  I can't just stay away from places I feel unsafe either, I live in New York City.  I can't really live in the moment when the moment is excruciatingly painful.

Then you can't. You are the one who has to say I can.

You asked I gave a life prospective of what has worked.

As I said your life is your life.

Best in your path.

[barbie]

Listen.  I respect people who only care about loving themselvs, I really do.  But I have a career to worry about.  I'm a professional artist, and the theatre world is NOT as accepting as you'd think.  My "community" doesn't seem to give a damn about me, especialy when it comes to dating.  I can't just stay away from places I feel unsafe either, I live in New York City.  I can't really live in the moment when the moment is excruciatingly painful.

My question is whether the blue lipstick is popular in New York City now.

barbie~~

[androgynouspainter26]

Hahaha, queer girls like it.  Don't usually do anything bolder than a purple outside those circles

[Julia-Madrid]

Listen.  I respect people who only care about loving themselvs, I really do.  But I have a career to worry about.  I'm a professional artist, and the theatre world is NOT as accepting as you'd think.  My "community" doesn't seem to give a damn about me, especialy when it comes to dating.  I can't just stay away from places I feel unsafe either, I live in New York City.  I can't really live in the moment when the moment is excruciatingly painful.

Hi Androgynous painter - I think you said you were non-binary, and that kinda well puts you in a situation of.... what exactly?  Your avatar shows a highly attractive person, beyond the restrictions of rigid gender labels.  There are many people who are strongly attracted to androgyny and all that comes with it, but the key word you used was "professional".  In a work context that's mostly what counts, and I would have thought that a certain notoriety in the art world might be good for a career.  Grayson Perry might be an example here...

Forgive me for this, but is some of your discomfort coming from a conclusion that you feel you are scaring or inadvertently threatening or alienating people with how you present as a person?  If that's the case, how would you balance being true to yourself and smoothing the way for yourself in social and professional situations?   I mean, naturists don't walk about the city naked (well, not usually), but it's a rather core part of who they are.

I feel that we haven't really got to the nub of your question.  Is it professional acceptance, or the issues relating to finding a partner, or are both related to something else we haven't got to yet?

Regards
Julia

[androgynouspainter26]

That's a good question-I identify as female actually, but also nonbinary.  And the professional end is...well, I work in theatre, so usually people are accepting  But not always.  If they have an issue with me, it'd be the trans bit, not the presentation or anything.

I am worried about alienating people, that's exactly right.  But the solution there is to pass, right?  I mean, I am female, and I'd like to be seen as such.  That's all...what else could I do?  Present as male?  I see no point it that, that's not who I am or how I want to live.

My worries?  My career will probably be ok.  My biggest issue is the bit about finding a partner, to be honest.  Not sure what to do about that, and I've tried everything.

[Julia-Madrid]

Ms Painter, I fully understand your concerns about getting a partner.  I'm in my 40s, and have had a couple of long term relationships ever since my 20s.  Divorced, and transitioning, I do ask whether I will enjoy that emotional and physical intimacy again.

Fundamentally I think it's a question of attitude.  People talk about plenty of fish, but for most of us we truly only experience about three or so occasions when we meet someone with whom we really resonate.  I think this is regardless of orientation and gender identity. 

I guess that what I'm trying to say is that, if you make yourself available to possible opportunities, and you present yourself as an attractive person (psychologically and intellectually more than physically) then luck has a way of causing the right people to turn up.  Of course only a part of that can be attributed to luck. But you see where I am going. 

[suzifrommd]

Fundamentally I think it's a question of attitude.  People talk about plenty of fish, but for most of us we truly only experience about three or so occasions when we meet someone with whom we really resonate.

I think there's a bit more to it. For some people there is a large variety with whom they might successfully connect. For those, finding a mate is will happen more quickly. For others, (perhaps those who are more "complicated") there are much fewer. Those folks might find it more frustrating because what they're looking for is a rarer mix. Make sense?

[androgynouspainter26]

Suzy, I agree.  Let's start with the fact that I'm not interested in dating men...that I want to be with people who are artists, who are interesting...it's very hard, and for me it really is a question of "can I find anyone I like who likes me back".  I've met a few people before I was crazy about, but they never liked me.  The trans* issue was a part of that. 

Also.  Julia.  You're 40!?!?!?!?!?!?!  Oh my god, If I age as well as you have my life will be a sucess.

[Nevara]

To me it's very important --- it's pretty much the most important thing.

My family has already told me they cannot see me as a woman until I look like one. If that's how my folks who are supportive feel, then I can only imagine that any random person on the street definitely won't consider me a woman until I look passable. My career will put me in a position with a ton of in-person interaction so my options or to be passable or be jobless. Luckily my parents are helping me fund my transition including FFS and voice surgery so I have hope for the future.

The problem now is trying to not cry every time I see myself in the mirror until I do get FFS. I know I need to let hormones work for a while before surgery but the wait is killing me!