MTF partner :)

[ItsJory]

Hi there!
I have some questions about MTF transitions, among a few other things, and this site seemed like a really welcoming place to ask them Before we get started - I would like to apologize in advance for anything I say that may come across as rude or offensive, I really don't mean it that way! I am just very new to this so please let me know if any of my terminology is coming across the wrong way.

First there's a bit of back story...
My partner was born male and.. well this is where it gets tricky. My partner, who we'll call Cassie from this point on, likes to wear womens clothing when we're at home. Before we got together Cassie was not in a very accepting environment - the few people that did know about Cassies clothing preferences were just terrible to her, it got to the point where Cassie didn't dress up for years.. until we met.
I think that everyone looks their best when they're being themselves, and it doesn't hurt that Cassie looks freakin' adorable all dressed up, so she's been starting to open up about the whole thing again. I've asked Cassie a few times if she'd ever want to dress up when we aren't just at home, and she seems pretty uncertain. I'm having a hard time figuring out how much of it is because of how she was treated in the past.
She's mentioned hormone therapy before, but only in passing and when she does it's to say that if she was going to do a MTF transition she should have done it when she was younger.
Cassie is in her midtwenties and is quite tall, with broad shoulders and very masculine features. She has a lot of body hair, and a lot of facial hair.
I'm worried that Cassie secretly does want to transition, but is just unwilling because she doesn't think she could pass as a woman anymore.
That being said, maybe Cassie really is just content with dressing up, and doesn't want to do a full transition? This seems unlikely to me, but in either case, I want to be more sensitive to what Cassie needs from me as a partner.
For example - I don't know if I should call Cassie a boy or a girl. I don't know if 'he' or 'she' is more appropriate. I have stopped saying 'my boyfriend' and replaced that with the gender inclusive 'my partner', but I want to do more than that.
I tell Cassie she's beautiful and buy her feminine gifts (like panties and breastforms) but she is still always looking for reassurance that I'm okay with this. For example, she'll regularly say "are you sure this doesn't freak you out?" or "if you ever think it's too weird you can tell me and I'll stop" and it just breaks my heart. I feel like Cassie is holding back on taking steps towards a transition because she thinks that deep down I'm not okay with it - which couldn't be further from the truth. Everyone deserves to feel comfortable and happy in their own skin, especially my beautiful Cassie, who is the kindest, sweetest person I've ever known.

So.. sorry for the huge back story. I guess my main questions are.. what are some gender neutral terms I can use when referring to Cassie? Is there anything that can be done to decrease masculine features such as broad shoulders, body hair, and big hands? And what would be some really accepting, comfortable places to go to kind of.. test the waters? I think it would help if Cassie had an option to go somewhere dressed up, knowing it would be a safe environment. I was thinking of asking Cassie to go with me to one of the dragshows the local gay bar puts on, but I don't know how that would come across. Is asking a MTF person to a dragshow the same as asking a hollywood makeup artist to a junior high cosmetology class? I just really don't know, please help!

[musicofthenight]

I can't believe there hasn't been an answer yet.  You're awesome, do you know that?

Now go print that post out and ask her directly, you silly awesome person.

I'm sure you know this already, but it doesn't hurt to remember that it's really her decision.  All those hurtful attitudes you think she's internalized?  Until she chooses to dump them, they're her attitudes about her gender, which means they count more than anyone else's.

On the other points, others will be more helpful (please post, gals!).  I'm MtA.  Gotta say that drag queens are hell no, not my style, but that's me.  As a rule, I don't do extravagant or glamorous or over-the-top, more bookish and cute.  Ask her, but don't demand an answer now.  It might take her a while to find the courage.

And of course, love her either way.

[Tessa James]

ItsJory I agree with our musical friend completely.  Your caring, compassion and intuitive concerns are hugely heartwarming especially in contrast to the rejection we hear of too often.  Some of us need a hand to hold to even say the truth out loud but the candid questions you ask may be very welcome.  As noted by Motn these are her decisions and may take time to sort out.  Many people consider a gender therapist critical if transitioning but many people are comfortable at different plateaus under the umbrella term transgender.  There may be a Trans support group in your community to check out too

That you consider her beautiful while acknowledging our rights to be happy in our skin is simply so very supportive to hear.  If transitioning to some extent is desired there are any number of ways people deal with passing and feminization while the major gender markers like height and hands are not likely to change significantly.  We can maintain all kinds of fear that holds us back.  You are a great partner to consider safety while helping her face her fears.  Her self acceptance is key to moving forward IMO.

[Crackpot]

Welcome to the board!

Completely agree with everything that's been said already. My wife is MTF. She told me nearly 8 years ago (when we were 19 and first started dating) that she felt like a woman. I supported her but ultimately she decided not to pursue transition at that time. Even though in my heart I knew that eventually she was going to NEED to do it, I knew enough not to push the issue if she wasn't ready. It needs to be her choice so she's completely comfortable with it. No one knows what she's going to need better than herself. Just continue to be supportive as she decides to test the waters and keep the lines of communication open.

As far as my wife, now we are 27 and she's begun her process. She started with a counselor first about a year ago. It might not be a bad idea to suggest it to Cassie and see how she feels about talking to someone professional about it. My wife found someone that was able to do sessions online and that really helped her with her anxiety about it.

Almost all those questions you have should be answered by Cassie. With us, I used male pronouns until she told me not to. You can even look back at my previous posts here to see when the change happened. But even that is only on this board and with others that know. Until she comes out to more people she's still "my husband". She hasn't presented a lot outside the home yet but when she does she either dresses androgynously or wears something under her hoodie or other clothes. And she's pretty much only ever worn jeans which unless you're getting skinny jeans or something with lots of pocket embroidery and rhinestones no one will notice the difference.She'll wear make up out sometimes if we're going some where dark like to see a band at a show. That's what makes her comfortable. A drag show might be something she's interested in, maybe not. Never know until you ask. I have always loved Rupaul's drag race and my Hayley has always watched it right along with me. I've gotten some good make up tips from them for both of us. Laser hair removal or electrolysis will help the body hair. Hayley has been doing LHR on her face for nearly 6 months now (about 5 sessions 4-6 weeks apart) with some pretty good results. The rest she shaves and plucks. Height, shoulders, and hand size can't be changed but there are cis woman of all flavors out there and she'll just need to play with styles until she finds what works for her body. It's a lot of experimentation, but having you with her while she's doing it will help enormously.

You're a beautiful person and Cassie is very lucky to have you.

[Jessica Merriman]

Hi baby! You tell Cassie it is not too late at all. I started transition at 47 years old and talk about masculine, I was a 28 year Flight Paramedic/Firefighter, now look at me in my avatar. That is me today after being in therapy and HRT only since August 2013. It is never too late or someone too masculine. A lot of the others here transitioned even later than me in life. When you get the post count to use the Personal Message feature please have her PM me with any questions or other information I can give her, OK? It can be done and yes, use female pronouns around her. As for the drag show, well, you have to remember she should be considered a female and I don't know about others here, but I consider myself a hetero female and I would rather see something such as an opera, movie, concert or something along those lines. It is only my opinion not knowing her, but a drag show might make her uncomfortable. Please remember, the invite to PM me is open indefinitely.

[Brooke777]

First, I would like to echo what a few have said, you are awesome! She is very lucky to have found you.

Okay, onto some other points. I was extremely hairy when I started (think Robin Williams hairy). But laser has done it's job quite nicely. I was also extraordinarily masculine. I am 5'10", and I weighed 215lbs all of which was muscle. I had 19" biceps and a 17" neck. I am now 160lbs and wear a size 4. Hormones have done a great job with me, and I pass about 95% of the time. BTW, I started hormones at 29, so mid-twenties is not bad.

I also love DRAG shows! They are so much fun. For me, going to DRAG shows was a way to start to get comfortable going out in public in femme. I now just go to them for the entertainment. You don't need to go to an event to feel comfortable though. I would go to my favorite LGBT bar just to feel accepted.

Now, the most important thing. All of this has to move at her pace. It may take her a long time to accept that you accept her. It also may take her even longer before she accepts herself. I strongly recommend that she speak to a therapist that has knowledge and experience working with transgender people. And be very open with her. Let her know that you have come here. Let her know what you have asked, and how you feel. Like Musicofthenight suggested, let her read your post. That should mean a lot to her.

[ItsJory]

Thank you for the kind words and wonderful replies!

I think the best advice was to talk to Cassie about what she wants, and what she needs from me. I was thinking we could sit down with a bottle of wine and talk about where she'd like to be in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years. I think it would be good for her to get some of her fears and dreams out there on the table, even just for her own piece of mind.

The hair removal is tricky, we don't really have the money for laser or electrolosis right now
Cassie doesn't feel comfortable with waxing (having done it in sensitive areas, I don't blame her) and shaving seems like a losing battle in most areas. But next weekend we are shaving her legs! We've having a girls night, going to paint out toes and shape her eyebrows too

I am wary of mentioning a therapist to her.. when she was with her last girlfriend (the first person she came out to) the girlfriend wanted them to see a psychiatrist. The girlfriend made Cassie throw away all of her clothes, and told Cassie she found her repulsive. They never had sex again (for years!). The psychiatrist told Cassie that *he* was not transsexual, and that *he* was lucky to have such a supportive girlfriend willing to put up with *his* problem. When I met Cassie, she thought she had an addiction problem and had battled depression in the past. Even if we went to someone more accepting, I don't know that I could bring her back to someone who has the potential to do so much damage.

All I want is for Cassie to know that she is loved and accepted for who she is. If she does choose to start a transition, I want it to go as smoothly as possible and I want her to feel comfortable. I feel like I'm trying to protect her from so many things and the battle hasn't even begun. I'm so afraid for the times to come, should she decide to start outing herself. Without having said a word, I know we are both aware a few of her closest friends would not stand by her. I am so so afraid for her and I feel like there is nothing I will be able to do to help when friends and family start to turn away from her, as some inevitably will.

How did you ladies out yourselves? Was there anything that made it easier, or harder? What can I do to help her?

[Brooke777]

That first therapist was obviously not a gender therapist. I am so sorry that she had to go through such a horrible experience, and can understand her hesitation to go back to one. But they are extremely helpful when you go to the right one.

The first person I came out to was my now ex wife. Lets just say it didn't go well. After that however, everyone I have come out to has been extremely supportive and loving. Even friends who I was sure wouldn't accept me did. I came out to people via letters, emails, in person, phone calls, and texts. Whatever method was their preferred communication method.

[Tessa James]

I never intended to out myself but got in to therapy with an experienced gender therapist to deal with my intense dysphoria.  I really wanted a sense of peace and self acceptance.  On the way to self acceptance I found my secret was the center of my toxicity.  Each step I took in being open, out and honest with myself and others strengthened my resolve.  Eventually I told everyone I knew and having my partner beside me was critical to my initial success in coming out.

Decades ago I had a pysch counselor tell me I was gay and fighting it.  I had another tell me bisexuality was a myth or transitional.  An experienced gender therapist was essential to me in early transition and I hope you will reconsider their utility.  I enjoy being out but many trans people far prefer to be passable and in the MtF case "just one of the girls" or even stealth (I don't tell and no one knows).  Hard to know where Cassie may be.  This is a journey and some may have an agenda but most of us recognize such significant change that we may not predict with any confidence where we will be in the years ahead.  Please avoid my previous trap of thinking I would never be accepted and this is nearly impossible to do.  Turns out for me that the vast majortiy of my significant relationships have remained positive and even gained  depth due to honesty.  People can be cruel but more often vary from indifferent to very loving and supportive like you.

[Jamie D]

Thank you for the kind words and wonderful replies!

I think the best advice was to talk to Cassie about what she wants, and what she needs from me. I was thinking we could sit down with a bottle of wine and talk about where she'd like to be in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years. I think it would be good for her to get some of her fears and dreams out there on the table, even just for her own piece of mind.

The hair removal is tricky, we don't really have the money for laser or electrolosis right now
Cassie doesn't feel comfortable with waxing (having done it in sensitive areas, I don't blame her) and shaving seems like a losing battle in most areas. But next weekend we are shaving her legs! We've having a girls night, going to paint out toes and shape her eyebrows too

I am wary of mentioning a therapist to her.. when she was with her last girlfriend (the first person she came out to) the girlfriend wanted them to see a psychiatrist. The girlfriend made Cassie throw away all of her clothes, and told Cassie she found her repulsive. They never had sex again (for years!). The psychiatrist told Cassie that *he* was not transsexual, and that *he* was lucky to have such a supportive girlfriend willing to put up with *his* problem. When I met Cassie, she thought she had an addiction problem and had battled depression in the past. Even if we went to someone more accepting, I don't know that I could bring her back to someone who has the potential to do so much damage.

All I want is for Cassie to know that she is loved and accepted for who she is. If she does choose to start a transition, I want it to go as smoothly as possible and I want her to feel comfortable. I feel like I'm trying to protect her from so many things and the battle hasn't even begun. I'm so afraid for the times to come, should she decide to start outing herself. Without having said a word, I know we are both aware a few of her closest friends would not stand by her. I am so so afraid for her and I feel like there is nothing I will be able to do to help when friends and family start to turn away from her, as some inevitably will.

How did you ladies out yourselves? Was there anything that made it easier, or harder? What can I do to help her?

Welcome Jory.  Sorry I did not reply sooner.  Some therapists can be buttholes!

I am on my third therapist (fourth, if I go all the way back to an on-campus psychiatrist when I was 19).  The first one wasn't very versed or knowledgeable about trans issue, more so about LGB issues.   

My second one was excellent, but the group practice she was with folded and she no longer associated with my insurance plan 

I am seeing a psychologist now, but not about the trans stuff at all (yet), but more about anger issues.   

Sometimes it is about finding a good match.  And hopefully, you will be invited to sit in on a session or two.

[Crackpot]

Jory, if Cassie does decide she wants to try counseling again I can ask my wife for her online counselor info. She likes her and she is experienced in LGBT issues. I can give you the info if you'd like it. Like other have said, you don't always mesh well with certain therapists. I know in my past I've seen probably 4 or 5 and have only really gotten along well with one.

As far as the LHR, I don't know where you guys live but we wouldn't have been able to afford it if it hadn't found a groupon for it. It might be helpful look into them. We got 6 sessions for $130 I think. WAAAAY under what it normally is.

I can tell you when my wife told me she needed to transition for sure, she had to write it in a letter to me cause she was so nervous. Like I said previously I already knew about the dysphoria so I was already on board with it. The others I think she'd been taking the "rip it off like a bandaid" approach, but we haven't gotten to much family yet. The majority of people that have been told have been confused but genuinely supportive. We've just been making sure everyone knows that we'll answer their questions openly and honestly and have info available if they'd like it.

[muffinpants]

Hello Jory and welcome

So.. first off, yeah I agree with the others in that yall do need to talk about it, just sit down for the evening and lay things out. Sounds to me like transitioning is something she would like to do but maybe it just feels like too much effort? especially if she deals with depression. Try to let her know that she can take it as gradually as she needs. Hair does thin a bit and growth slows down, or so I've observed on my gf since being on hrt, and muscles shrink as well.. so broad shoulders and hair might not be as big an issue as she is thinking.. i have many mtf friend who hasn't had laser and she just has to shave once every couple days and wear concealer.. so yeah hair removal doesn't have to be an immediate concern

as for the therapist.. is there anywhere around yall that would work with informed consent? my gf went to a therapist through school, and while it went well and everything, they pretty much just talked about life and such. While it was a positive experience, I don't think it had any effect on how she feels about transition or whatever.

As for the losing friends and family.. I guess you just have to come to realize that if you lose them over something like this.. they weren't worth having. It's hard to lose some of them, but that's life. You don't need people like that. Though you never know.. some people may surprise you. I have found that a lot of people who I nevver thought would come around really have... but then again there are the people that we have that we avoid telling at all costs... we just avoid them now

Anyways, good luck to you and cassie! I hope things go well for you two! Yall are lucky to have each other and I'm sure the two of you can pull through this whole thing together and come out stronger <3

ooh ooh, also meant to mention that there are tons of resources out there, if ya look into them. I know in the city my gal and I live in, there is a free clinic that has it's own trans* section. So even if money is an issue, where there is a will there is a way!