Advancements in bottom surgery?

[TrojanMan]

So we all know the current ftm surgeries aren't that great for the money we pay, so I'm wondering what kinds of things are being developed. Like, I've seen that they can grow you a new trachea in a Petri dish or grow you a new ear on a mouses back and then attach it to you, and they can transplant hearts. So what have you guys heard are developing as far as genital transplants, growing genitals, or just what might be possible in the future?

[Devlyn]

So we all know the current ftm surgeries aren't that great for the money we pay, so I'm wondering what kinds of things are being developed. Like, I've seen that they can grow you a new trachea in a Petri dish or grow you a new ear on a mouses back and then attach it to you, and they can transplant hearts. So what have you guys heard are developing as far as genital transplants, growing genitals, or just what might be possible in the future?

I'll go get some popcorn for the ensuing disagreement on that statement! I've seen some pretty impressive results.

[aleon515]

I think I'm with Devlyn on this. You probably only REALLY want to say is that you wonder about this technology not that the results aren't good. They can be pretty amazing. OTOH, growing them in a petri dish would be so much easier. I'm going to wonder about the difference between an ear and a penis though. You have all these nerves and need to attach them correctly. Also it's not like there is NOTHING there right now. Seems to be a certain degree of messiness is involved.

--Jay

[TrojanMan]

I think I'm with Devlyn on this. You probably only REALLY want to say is that you wonder about this technology not that the results aren't good. They can be pretty amazing. OTOH, growing them in a petri dish would be so much easier. I'm going to wonder about the difference between an ear and a penis though. You have all these nerves and need to attach them correctly. Also it's not like there is NOTHING there right now. Seems to be a certain degree of messiness is involved.

--Jay

Correct. I was not saying the surgery is bad, just that I was wondering if they could grow an actual penis. 

[Edge]

And if they can, how long until it's available for us and how much would it cost?
Of course, there are other problems such as how they would go about doing it. Who's DNA would they use? Would we have to take immunosuppressants for the rest of our lives?

[Nikotinic]

I'm not an expert in organ growth but I do have a degree in biochemistry so I've studied biotechnology a bit.

I think the hardest part to deal with in a grown tissue would be all of the nerves. it's all well and good to get the structure right but it would me making it feel real that would be difficult. Even assuming that they were able to get that right, I'm not sure how they would go about integrating the nerves into the existing anatomy. There are some similarities between male and female anatomy but there are some big differences too.

Regarding the immunosuppressants - I assume that they could use a person's own DNA to grow this tissue. The genes necessary to grow a penis are not on the Y chromosome - the Y chromosome just has other genes that trigger this to happen hormonally. This is how you can get intersex conditions which leave a person with XX genetics but a male anatomy. If the new tissue was grown with your own DNA then there should be no issues with rejection.

Sometimes it all seems too outlandish and far off and it's hard to imagine a time when these things will be possible, but then you have to remember that not so long ago a simple infection could be a death sentence, then antibiotics changed everything.

[CursedFireDean]

Regarding the immunosuppressants - I assume that they could use a person's own DNA to grow this tissue. The genes necessary to grow a penis are not on the Y chromosome - the Y chromosome just has other genes that trigger this to happen hormonally. This is how you can get intersex conditions which leave a person with XX genetics but a male anatomy. If the new tissue was grown with your own DNA then there should be no issues with rejection.

Have you looked into Dr. Atala's research? I know there's a post somewhere on here about him. He's successfully regrown penises for rabbits (or maybe it was mice?) that could get erections and usually impregnate females. If clit tissues are similar, to my understanding, this could develop into an ftm procedure. The research I think is intended for cismen and boys who lost their penises in accidents, but could probably reach us as well.

[King Malachite]

There was a post in a blog done a couple of years ago by a transman who was pursing to go into the medical field and he mentioned the possibility of incorporating an internal penile into a metoidioplasty, stretching it's size over time, similar to ear gauging.  In theory, it does sound like a good idea, but it seems that he has been kind of MIA so I don't know where he would be at now with that idea.  Here's the blog for anyone that's interested.  http://toyneboi.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/change-in-major-and-future-ambitions/

[wheat thins are delicious]

Correct. I was not saying the surgery is bad, just that I was wondering if they could grow an actual penis.

You should have said just that instead of acting as if all trans men have some agreed upon opinion of current bottom surgery results vs the price they cost.  I know plenty of guys, some of who are on this site, who are quite pleased with their surgical results.

But back to the topic at hand, I'd definitely take a look at Dr. Atala's research, which CursedFireDean mentioned earlier.  I definitely think the technology is out there, but scientists have to tweak it the right way to fully work for human tissue. 

[sneakersjay]

I am one that is thrilled with my meta.  Having A dick (for me) is better than NO dick.  And I've dated a few guys that had small dicks (as in really small) though they were larger than mine.  So cis men deal with this issue as well.

It is a personal decision, and while in an ideal world I'd have a 5-6" penis, reality is that a phallo for me is more than I can handle money wise, surgery wise, and recovery wise, though I have seen some amazing end results. My little guy works great, I can pee at urinals, and life is good.

[Devlyn]

A reminder: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,65184.0.html

Thanks, hugs, Devlyn

[Out-Of-The-Night]

I'm not an expert in organ growth but I do have a degree in biochemistry so I've studied biotechnology a bit.

I think the hardest part to deal with in a grown tissue would be all of the nerves. it's all well and good to get the structure right but it would me making it feel real that would be difficult. Even assuming that they were able to get that right, I'm not sure how they would go about integrating the nerves into the existing anatomy. There are some similarities between male and female anatomy but there are some big differences too.

Regarding the immunosuppressants - I assume that they could use a person's own DNA to grow this tissue. The genes necessary to grow a penis are not on the Y chromosome - the Y chromosome just has other genes that trigger this to happen hormonally. This is how you can get intersex conditions which leave a person with XX genetics but a male anatomy. If the new tissue was grown with your own DNA then there should be no issues with rejection.

Sometimes it all seems too outlandish and far off and it's hard to imagine a time when these things will be possible, but then you have to remember that not so long ago a simple infection could be a death sentence, then antibiotics changed everything.

That's really cool (from the perspective of a geek and a transman)! How soon do you think this could potentially happen? I'm only a highschooler who's taken some summer courses in biotech, so i really have no sense of how long these things take or how interested the medical community is in creating better surgical procedures for transmen.

[mangoslayer]

While I am happy with my penis, I can agree with the OP. It is not that great for the cost. If I hadnt had insurance cover it, it would have costed me well over 200 grand (counting costs of related complications). Great results, ridiculous cost.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the reality is the lab grown penis thing won't happen within any of our lifetimes. A penis is pretty low on the list of organs that they will be working on growing. Hearts, lungs, kidneys, etc. are all organs that are in high demand and low supply. Since a penis isn't deemed necessary to live, it will be quite a wait until they put some real work into growing them. Maybe in the next millenium, or even in the next couple centuries, but don't hold your breath.

[King Malachite]

While I am happy with my penis, I can agree with the OP. It is not that great for the cost. If I hadnt had insurance cover it, it would have costed me well over 200 grand (counting costs of related complications). Great results, ridiculous cost.

If you don't mind me asking, which insurance company are you with that allowed you to get part of the phalloplasty cost covered with Dr. Crane.  Also, did he take your insurance up front or did you have to pay first and then have the insurance money reimbursed to you?

[mangoslayer]

If you don't mind me asking, which insurance company are you with that allowed you to get part of the phalloplasty cost covered with Dr. Crane.  Also, did he take your insurance up front or did you have to pay first and then have the insurance money reimbursed to you?

At the time i was on Aetna through lockheed martin. He took my insurance up front for the surgery. A couple hospital related bills we had to pay upfront and get reimbursed on, some we had to appeal the insurance for too.