Half life of estrogen

[Cindy]

If you are having these symptoms get to an ED ASAP.

Tell them what you have been doing and get help.

I was close to death on monitored therapy, it was the fast reaction of my endo that saved me and I had no symptoms.

Get help and never self medicate.

[Amy1988]

NO! 

You just can't do things like that. That is EVEN MORE dangerous. Unless you have been properly diagnosed as needing an anti-coagulant, taking one is quite likely to give you all sorts of serious problems up to and including internal bleeding, hemorrhage, liver failure, stroke and sudden death.

Taking a powerful anti-coagulant is not something to do lightly and without regard to your blood chemistry, and indeed liver function. My foster son is currently struggling with liver failure. Trust me you don't want to go there.

Please go to a sympathetic doctor as soon as possible tell them what you have been doing, and why, and get proper blood tests done. Even if they don't want to prescribe, at very least they should be prepared to do the bloodwork for you to make sure you don't kill yourself.

If you can't do this properly then please stop now, because you are potentially putting your life in jeopardy.

I won't stop.  I'll see a doctor but I won't stop.  And please don't play doctor and try to scare the hell out of people.  It has some risk but it's not that bad.

[Amy1988]

If you are having these symptoms get to an ED ASAP.

Tell them what you have been doing and get help.

I was close to death on monitored therapy, it was the fast reaction of my endo that saved me and I had no symptoms.

Get help and never self medicate.

People take plavix everyday and most never have a problem.

[Cindy]

Go to a doctor now. Please.

[Amy1988]

Go to a doctor now. Please.

I will this week. 

[Doctorwho?]

I won't stop.  I'll see a doctor but I won't stop.  And please don't play doctor and try to scare the hell out of people.  It has some risk but it's not that bad.

Amy - I'm not PLAYING doctor I AM a genuine medical student! Therefore in a very short while I WILL be a fully qualified doctor for real, I'm already at the stage in my training where I see some patients under supervision, and I don't want to end up treating you in end stage liver failure!!!

Trust me I know the risks and I am absolutely NOT overstating anything! You are playing Russian roulette here, and if you don't believe me believe my very good friend Professor Cindy - who is a full professor in a medical school in Australia. We Know, please trust us, we're trying to save your life!

[Amy1988]

Amy - I'm not PLAYING doctor I AM a genuine medical student! Therefore in a very short while I WILL be a fully qualified doctor for real, I'm already at the stage in my training where I see some patients under supervision, and I don't want to end up treating you in end stage liver failure!!!

Trust me I know the risks and I am absolutely NOT overstating anything! You are playing Russian roulette here, and if you don't believe me believe my very good friend Professor Cindy - who is a full professor in a medical school in Australia. We Know, please trust us, we're trying to save your life!

Well thanks for your concern but I think you are exaggerating the danger to make a point.  You make it sound as though liver failure is eminent rather than a rare side effect. 

[Amy1988]

Amy, you are obviously very keen on the idea of transition.  I am too.  I have some health issues (high blood pressure, high cholesterol, mild liver damage) that cause doctors to hesitate in treating me at all.  I had to go on a crash course to bring my stats in line before a doc would even start me on low level HRT.  One thing I was told was that a history of clots could prevent me from ever receiving HRT.

That is one of the additional hazards of the path you are on.  If your actions result in some of the more severe possible results, you may be reducing your access to proper treatment in the future.  I'm guessing you are young and in reasonable health now, treatment is wide open for you, but if you damage your health, your options will grow dimmer in the future.  I was nearly devastated and suicidal when I faced the prospect of being disallowed from ever receiving HRT.  I am old and have done a lot of stupid things in my life, please learn from me, don't repeat my mistakes by wrecking your health and your ability to be treated properly.

Well I don't think I've been taking it long enough to have caused any damage.  When I see my doctor I will see if she will Put me on Eliquis which is much safer.

[Doctorwho?]

Well thanks for your concern but I think you are exaggerating the danger to make a point.  You make it sound as though liver failure is eminent rather than a rare side effect.

No - I'm not saying that, and indeed no one can tell you that. Like all biological processes there is a high degree of random chance involved. Point is given that the consequences are potentially serious and irreversible do you really want to take the risk however small it might appear to be?

A risk of say 1 in 1000 may sound small until you become the unlucky ONE - (and someone will) -  whereupon the risk is absolute. So all I am saying is that taking that risk, where the consequences, if things go badly, are reversible (curable), may be a reasonable gamble. However with things like liver failure they aren't reversible at our current level of medical skill, and so it is better not to take the chance. Particularly when the risk is easily avoidable.

Anyway I hear that you have got the point so I'll leave you to it.

[Jamie D]

People take plavix everyday and most never have a problem.

I was on Plavix for several years and developed bleeding in the brain.  I can tell you from personal experience that hemorrhagic strokes are unpleasant.  Try an enteric coated 81 mg aspirin each day until you see your doctor.

From a recent study:

    6.5% of Plavix-aspirin users experienced a serious bleeding event, compared with 3.3% of aspirin-only users.
    5.8% of Plavix users died, compared to only 4.1% of aspirin-only users.

[Amy1988]

I was on Plavix for several years and developed bleeding in the brain.  I can tell you from personal experience that hemorrhagic strokes are unpleasant.  Try an enteric coated 81 mg aspirin each day until you see your doctor.

From a recent study:

    6.5% of Plavix-aspirin users experienced a serious bleeding event, compared with 3.3% of aspirin-only users.
    5.8% of Plavix users died, compared to only 4.1% of aspirin-only users.

Those are very low rates.  Not much worse than plain aspirin.

[Ashey]

Amy, your disregard for your own health and safety is very troubling, and nearly sickening. Unless you are a qualified medical professional, you should assume you know nothing about any of this stuff, and can't reasonably expect to know what interactions and what dosages of this or that are appropriate for you. You may have underlying medical conditions that you are not aware of, which could only be exacerbated by what you are doing to yourself. Screwing around with your blood and your body chemistry is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. You can't just guess, you can't just hope for the best. And nobody is ragging on you here or trying to be mean. We want to help you but you aren't taking that help, and that's not just frustrating for us, it's also sad and troubling. None of us want anything bad to happen to you.

[JLT1]

Those are very low rates.  Not much worse than plain aspirin.

Amy,

I know what it is like to need to transition.  I know what it is like to hurt.  I also know what it is like to go off estrogen for a while.  Quite simply, it all sucks.  If you won't quit, let's be as safe as we can until you get to a doctor.  If money is a big problem and is delaying you from seeing a doctor, PM me.

Are you taking any other pharmaceuticals for any reason?   I ask because they can interfere with your ability to metabolize estrogen and/or plavix.  With estrogen, your body is getting rid of it and with plavix, first pass metabolism converts what you take into the active drug.  Other drugs may interfere with metabolism and it may be easier to quit one of those...

Second, short term thing, I would recommend you drop the estrogen to ¼ normal dose.  It will hold you for a while.  Stopping suddenly and starting suddenly is hard on your body.  Also, start tapering off Plavix.  Do nothing suddenly.

Please let me know, I will be online most of the night.  I'm not an MD.  I am a scientist who works in this area.  I am also going to get in a lot of trouble for this but I want you alive.  If you would like to know more about plavix, go to rxlist.com and search plavix.

Hugs,

Jen

[Amy1988]

Amy,

I know what it is like to need to transition.  I know what it is like to hurt.  I also know what it is like to go off estrogen for a while.  Quite simply, it all sucks.  If you won't quit, let's be as safe as we can until you get to a doctor.  If money is a big problem and is delaying you from seeing a doctor, PM me.

Are you taking any other pharmaceuticals for any reason?   I ask because they can interfere with your ability to metabolize estrogen and/or plavix.  With estrogen, your body is getting rid of it and with plavix, first pass metabolism converts what you take into the active drug.  Other drugs may interfere with metabolism and it may be easier to quit one of those...

Second, short term thing, I would recommend you drop the estrogen to ¼ normal dose.  It will hold you for a while.  Stopping suddenly and starting suddenly is hard on your body.  Also, start tapering off Plavix.  Do nothing suddenly.

Please let me know, I will be online most of the night.  I'm not an MD.  I am a scientist who works in this area.  I am also going to get in a lot of trouble for this but I want you alive.  If you would like to know more about plavix, go to rxlist.com and search plavix.

Hugs,

Jen

Jen thank you for offering to help me but I am currently employed with medical insurance so that's not a problem.  The tough part is finding a doctor willing to fool with someone like me.  My current provider is is great for regular stuff.  I adore her but she can't help me with this stuff.  She is actually a PA but she refered me to an MD on staff.  I'll see what he is willing to do. 

[Ltl89]

Amy,

People are giving you advice not to scare you, but to warn you.  Some here had the very same negative health reactions that you are brushing off.  It's not that the medications itself are problematic or that you are in imminent danger.  The issue is that the meds could potentially cause problems if they aren't monitored properly and the negative look out signs aren't be addressed.  You talked about potential issues with clots.  That can be life threatening.  Everyone here just wants to make sure that you will be okay.  At the very least, please talk to a doctor asap about the meds you are taking and the side effects you are experiencing.   

[Jenna Marie]

I'll just chime in to say that I'm another who had a bad reaction - and without talking numbers, my dose was low enough that it's within the range often brought up as an example of "too little to do any good." I was on HRT for three months when the follow-up blood tests showed I was in beginning liver failure; it took weeks of waiting before I could restart HRT, plus more tests (including a panicky ultrasound) and another year of close monitoring before I was out of the woods. I had absolutely zero symptoms, and my endo said that without the regular testing, I could easily have died.

(I'm now on only half that original tiny dose; for me personally, even the super low starting point was *too much.*)