Christians

[DriftingCrow]

I see where you're coming from Jack, I think we've all had bad experiences. . .

but I just found this shocking:

There's someone I recently found out is mormon, and that was it, I wanted nothing to do with them and turns out I was right in doing so. 

Did you ditch your friend before or after you were proved right in doing so? It sounds like it was before you were proved correct.

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ETA: I don't know. . . where I go to temple people wear turbans and headscarfs. Everyone there (including myself) has been called terrorist, sandn******, etc. by people who just assume we're going to blow them up or force everyone to follow Sharia law (even though we're not Muslims). While I am aware some people hate LGBTs of various religions and even those who don't follow a religion, I am tired of this "prove yourself" to me thing. Okay, prove myself as not hating LGBTs, prove myself as not being a terrorist, prove myself of being American. . . where does it end?

[CursedFireDean]

Again, I'm not saying assume that they're all okay. I am simply saying that it's hardly fair to use the term 'Christian' when ONLY talking about the unaccepting.

Those who are taking a literal view of the bible are clinging to a verse saying to not have sex with someone of the same sex, but that verse is right next to one saying don't wear clothes of mixed materials. Do they cling to that one? No. Their logic isn't without it's flaws either. You can't look at the flaws of one view without considering the flaws of the other as well. Some may interpret too much into it, but others flat out pick and chose their laws. Either way the thinking could be considered flawed.

[BunnyBee]

I have many Mormon friends, all of whom have shockingly been completely awesome and way more understanding than most about my situation.  So I wouldn't necessarily make too many presumptions off somebody's beliefs.

[wheat thins are delicious]

Again, I'm not saying assume that they're all okay. I am simply saying that it's hardly fair to use the term 'Christian' when ONLY talking about the unaccepting.

Those who are taking a literal view of the bible are clinging to a verse saying to not have sex with someone of the same sex, but that verse is right next to one saying don't wear clothes of mixed materials. Do they cling to that one? No. Their logic isn't without it's flaws either. You can't look at the flaws of one view without considering the flaws of the other as well. Some may interpret too much into it, but others flat out pick and chose their laws. Either way the thinking could be considered flawed.

I think people just use Christian when describing people who are not accepting in an attempt to express to people why those people are not accepting, meaning they aren't accepting because they are Christians.  To be clear, I'm not saying that all Christains are not accepting of trans or lgb people, as I know that's not true. 

[CursedFireDean]

I think people just use Christian when describing people who are not accepting in an attempt to express to people why those people are not accepting, meaning they aren't accepting because they are Christians.  To be clear, I'm not saying that all Christains are not accepting of trans or lgb people, as I know that's not true.

I definitely get that. When clarifying WHY, then I think it's perfectly okay to say Christian because that is a legitimate reason, but I take issue when Christian is the SOLE descriptor, as if it automatically includes intolerance.

[David27]

Again, I'm not saying assume that they're all okay. I am simply saying that it's hardly fair to use the term 'Christian' when ONLY talking about the unaccepting.

There's someone I recently found out is mormon, and that was it, I wanted nothing to do with them and turns out I was right in doing so. 

Yes, some people are jerks regardless of any group the belong to or interests they have.

I wasn't raised Christian and my immediate family is atheist. There has never been any hate towards Christians, Jews or Islams. Before I became Christian I never noticed the stereotypes of anti-GLBT it was only after that I considered the stereotypes even though the Christians that I was around never fit that.

I don't think ones religious beliefs are a deciding factor of friendship. Basically it's like saying one guy with a blue shirt was mean to me, so then all guys who wear blue shirts are mean. I do believe in cutting people out if you have proof that they aren't accepting.

[Jack_M]

I don't have a good track record with mormons and one physically assualted me twice.  Not one accepting mormon thus far.

And I don't ignore or discriminate against religions, this is more just on who I let myself get friendly or close with.  If people identify with their religion it suggests a stronger faith and possibility of that faith influencing their thoughts on the LGBT community, so I don't ignore so much as tread cautiously until such a time, if at all where the possibility to explore friendship opens up, assuming there's anything to base that friendship on.  Honestly, someone who identifies with their religion isn't always a great friend to have as an atheist.  I really don't like discussing religion with friends.  I don't care what someone believes, they can believe in the tooth fairy or Santa for all I care.  But if someone identifies with their religion to the point where you know their religion before you actually know them, that's enough of a turn off for me anyway regardless of LGBT issues.  So I guess for a double issue, as an atheist I'm out right there anyway.

Although to be honest, personally, and maybe this is the result of living in the UK, I wouldn't say I've experienced christians to be the #1 non-accepting group.  I mean, yeah, we see douches like the Westboro church in media and so on but in personal, every day life, I haven't really experienced any problems with christians myself.  I've had far worse problems from muslims.  Was bullied a lot at school with tons of mean things said to myself as well as the out lesbians (I was in an all girls school).  And I've had muslim doctors refused to treat me.  And still I'd say more issues from mormons than any other type of christians.

I think the truth is that it's become okay to bash Christianity but not so PC to bash jews or muslims that can be just as bad or maybe even worse. 

[Brandon]

I know that both sides of the spectrum are Christians, I'm simply pointing out that there are different KINDS of Christianity. I did not say it was a different religion, just that it is similar to that. Different Christians put their focus on different things.
could you re-word that possibly? I'm confused about what 'that' is referring to.

Umm throwing Christians in a box Ive noticed

[Brandon]

I'm not saying there aren't non-Christians who don't accept, just that being a Christian doesn't automatically mean a person won't accept it.

I agree

[Declan.]

I've had some problems with other Christians. Not many, though. The main one is the "God doesn't make mistakes" comment. Asking if cleft palates and other defects aren't real usually puts an end to that. People don't seem to understand, that's all. There are problems on "both sides." There are people who have a knee-jerk reaction as soon as they find out someone is religious, for example, and will make massive assumptions about them. The issues between "both sides" are not 100% coming from religious people even though their offenses are (IMO) far worse.

I do view my condition as a defect, but I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I know not everybody thinks of it that way.

[CursedFireDean]

I think the truth is that it's become okay to bash Christianity but not so PC to bash jews or muslims that can be just as bad or maybe even worse.

And this statement right here is the core of what I'm asking we try and remove from the site.

[CursedFireDean]

Umm throwing Christians in a box Ive noticed

It's not just the LGB that do it. Trans people do it too.

[DriftingCrow]

 Innocent until proven guilty is what I am going by.

My religion is about love and equality, I hope you find some of that.

[Jack_M]

Maybe instead of telling people how they should feel about a religion you should just lead by example and possibly keep the religious stuff out of a non religious part of the forum? Religion is going to be a sore point for many LGBT members and in my opinion that is why there us a religious part to the forum, I certainly don't go there. There's a very logical reason for LGBT people to be anti-theist and in this case anti-Christian and obviously when one points out why, the religious just take offense.

Nothing anyone says with regards to any stats or people being accepting VS not is going to detract from words at face value in a religious books. When people have faith they have teachings from said books. There is no actual logical reason to hate the LGBT community, in fact in many cases there is more logic to suggest it's good than bad (e.g. much needed population control, it exists in nature, etc). Unless you have been subject to teachings that are anti LGBT there's nothing logically telling us LGBT people are wrong/bad and for that, that mostly means religion.  You can have racist or hateful parents but if this is separate to cult/groups/religion, eventually common sense and logic can show the child their parents are just being silly. But if they have a faith that has parts that can be quoted from the religious books to justify the hate, then it's harder for logic and common sense to detract them from hate.

The idea of innocent until proven guilty in the case of assuming all religious people will be accepting is honestly, to me, like seeing a guy with a holstered gun and assuming he's not going to shoot. The guy could actually be a cop or may have no intention of using it, but until I know that, I'm just gonna leave them be until such a time as it does indeed become clear they're safe.

A common atheist quote that may seem distasteful to theists but might help explain how atheists feel, and a quote I personally agree with. It demonstrates why there is a distrust or potential for such from the get go.:

" With or without [religion] you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."...Steven Weinberg

I'm out!

[DriftingCrow]

 The biggest problem I have with your stance is that it can easily be expanded. If a religious book says "kill the infidel", you'd likely want proof that person isn't going to kill you upon discovering you're an atheist. Would you advocate that all IDs should state the persons religion on it so we know who to give extra pat-downs and scans to at airports? It seems like that would cause all sorts of issues to me.

Btw, I did report the original post saying it might need to be moved to christianity. However, just because something seems to be in the wrong section doesn't mean its okay to continue on an anti-religious stance after someone said they found it hurtful. I am fine with you having your own opinion, but you just didn't seem too respectful.

[CursedFireDean]

Again, the purpose of my post is not to start a religious debate, simply to ask people to stop using a word. I really don't see what is wrong with asking some of the guys here to realise that 'Christian' does not ALWAYS equal unaccepting and it's offensive to imply that it does.