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so what's wrong with being open and proud

Started by evecrook, December 17, 2013, 09:46:38 PM

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Ltl89

Quote from: Katie on December 18, 2013, 07:26:35 PM
Thinking that as Devlyn put it some people are not reading the posts very well. On top of that they somehow have this crystal ball that allows them to see past what the words are saying and draw strange negative ideas in their heads, finally culminating in all encompassing negativity. I suppose that's why there is therapists, so people can work on these problems.

Oh well. Time for some coffee.

Katie

Katie, 

Many of us in our everyday life have to deal with people constantly putting us down for our transitions (at least I have with my family).  When we come to a support site, hearing things in various threads like "I can't take someone seriously based on their avatar" or statements that seem to cast doubts on other peoples transitions or whether they really are on hrt can be a little off putting here.  Look, for many of us, it's the one safe place for us to discuss these issues in a world that isn't always understanding.  Hearing things that seem to cast doubt on other members here really sucks when you already have to deal with naysayers all the time in real life.  A support site should be a refuge from that for all of us no matter our transition status or how far into we are.   While I realize you had a successful transition and you found a path that works for you and preach it for others, please try to see where other people are coming from as well.  And I'm not perfect and I'm sure that I may have taken things out of context at times and have been overly senstive; therefore, I apologize if I caused any drama or misinterpreted what you have been saying all along.  To be honest, it wasn't called for and I should have let it go rather than let some of the statements eat me up for the past few days.  For that, I apologize. 
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Tristan

I know I did use my real photo as my avatar photo but recently changed it as well as my profile name. The reason being I'm stealth and don't want anyone googling me and linking me to trans stuff. It may sound bad. But where I love and work it's hard enough getting crap for being black/Cuban. Let all my coworkers find out I spent the first 11 years as a boy and it would make my life a living hell as well as being fired. And the surgery thing in my state sadly is required. They try to stop people who are pre op from using the woman's room in a lot of town. But yes although I have been done with my transition and I'm happily living my life. I do still reach out to others to help. Of course it's behind the scenes . Oh and in my area. They can be mean and toss pre ops in holding cells with men. So mean. That's one of the main reasons I'm pro srs . But out and proud is def not bad. Unless you live in a small minded town with a history of violence against LBGT people
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itsxandrea

It's such a personal choice really ... and frankly, I think we all have our days of being proud of it ... and days / situations we'd rather no one knew differently.  I feel, if you're in a safe community, open-minded area ... it's pretty okay to be open about things (to a limit ... simply because not everyone wants to know the details of course). But understand, even in open communities you'll always have close-minded people who will easily dismiss you.

Further, while I can see the benefits of being your true self and being open ... and also the benefits of being stealth ... understand that if you choose to be very open with it, there's no going back, especially if you live in a smaller town. Unfortunately, because of prejudice people have ... this can lead to not getting a job, not getting an apartment, or even worse consequences (violence). Although in most states these practices are illegal ... in the majority of states, they aren't. And again, I'd do more research about the state you live in and make sure LGB..T rights are covered. In most states, you just get the LGB rights covered and the trans are to fend for themselves, it's horrible.

Good luck to you and remember that whichever decision you choose ... no one transwoman is ever 100% passable in my experience --- there will always be that one person who knows. Whether that's a good thing, or a bad thing is really up to the context of the situation ... so, do be careful ... but don't feel you can't be yourself :)


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Katie

Just need to throw in a clarification here. This word stealth is thrown around a lot and I want to be clear here. When I say that at some point usually after SRS one just wants to be seen as a normal woman I dont equate the word stealth to that. It simply means keeping your mouth shut. Not offering to people that your different. If they can tell oh well but that does not mean you admit it or offer that information.

I mean of all the people out there with missing arms or legs or in wheel chairs ect. They dont usually walk around talking about what makes them different. On the contrary they just live thier lives as best they can as any other person might.

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Brooke777

Quote from: Katie on December 18, 2013, 10:40:02 PM
It simply means keeping your mouth shut. Not offering to people that your different. If they can tell oh well but that does not mean you admit it or offer that information.

I mean of all the people out there with missing arms or legs or in wheel chairs ect. They dont usually walk around talking about what makes them different. On the contrary they just live thier lives as best they can as any other person might.

I like this clarification. Since I don't talk about being trans with anyone except close friends and family, then I am stealth. And, I am pre-op who just lives her life as any other woman out there.
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Jean24

Quote from: Nicolette on December 18, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
I agree that SRS is not required, as I was pre-op and stealth for many years. But I think one is braver attempting a long-term stealth pre-op, as it can be quite stressful at times.

I agree. I don't know how I'm going to find out how manage but based on my income I will have to :P
Trying to take it one day at a time :)
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Emi

Well, i would love to  be stealth and live a girls normal life, but i cant, to mcuh  friends and family, and aniway is easy to say what i am for my voice and my body so no espectation for that even if i start all again in another city.
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JennX

The one major issue I can see as opposition to this proposition is employment. Many employers are not trans-friendly. Even if they claim to be LBGT friendly... everyone working there, I can guarantee you, does not share all the same values, morales, religious beliefs and ethics. So if you decide to transition on the job, or not change all your legal docs, or even change all docs, but still want to be loud and proud and need to find work... be prepared to deal with the consequences. Many states do not see firing a person simply for being trans as an illegal practice. It happens everyday. Employers can and will do it. It's called the "at will nature of employment". Discrimination in the workplace can be hard to prove and recourse is a long and expensive process. So unless you are independently wealthy, a trust fund recipient, or hit the Powerball... y'all might want to carefully weight all options and possible outcomes before shouting your history and story from the roof tops. It's a very, very, very tough job market out there... even for those with advanced graduate degrees (PhD, MD, JD, MBA) and years of experience in their field... it's tough... trust me... so carefully gauge the current before jumping blindly in to the water. Transitioning and being yourself is important... but so is eating and having a roof over your head.
"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain."
-Dolly Parton
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Jenna Marie

JennX : The funny thing is, I had the opposite consideration - I have publications, work history, and a Master's degree under my old identity. (I can change the name on the degree, but not the transcript or the publications.) So if I wanted to go completely stealth, I'd have to start entirely over, dumping well over a decade of building a career that I love and am very good at. Luckily, my employer is totally understanding and has been from the beginning.

As for the larger issue, I don't think anything's wrong with it. I don't think anything's wrong with ANY decision people make for their own unique circumstances. Personally, I'm not willing to put in the effort to be either "completely stealth" (including moving away and getting a new career) *or* to be "open and proud" (because I'm too shy to do public activism). So I don't go out of my way to tell people unless it's a situation where I feel like that would help - like talking to another pre-transition trans person, or explaining to a cis person that you can't always tell by looking. Otherwise, unless it comes up in conversation (with me, or gossip by another person about me), no one necessarily will find out.
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evecrook

I think it's so great everyone on Susan's is so open and honest about themselves and their opinions . I know it's helped me so much in thinking about me being transgender. I just came out to myself and a few others recently It was only a couple months ago that my therapist called me transgender and I got a kick out of it. I'm just happy I found this place even though I've said this before.
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Anatta

#50
Kia Ora,

There's nothing wrong with being Out & Proud , just as there's nothing wrong with being Not Out & Proud...

Sadly there are some trans-people who have no option but to be out, so I guess being proud too would go a long way in helping these trans-women cope in society...

Some pros and cons of being out & proud

The possible Pros : For some
Freedom from the fear of 'being found out'
One can be open and honest about who they are (in work and in more intimate relationships)
You know who your 'real' friends are
And if extroverted (one would have to be somewhat extroverted for the proud part to kick in) they will have no shortage of finding themselves the 'centre of attention'

The possible Cons : For some
Always seen as that "trans" woman
Never quite knowing if your lover is only attracted to you because of your 'trans' status
Having to run the social gauntlet of ridicule, rejection, abuse and the possibility of violence-often on a daily bases

No doubt there are many more pros & cons, however these are just a few of the more obvious ones...

I guess it all depend on the individual's mental make-up, and how they can/will adapt to make the best of the situation they find themselves in...

"Different Strokes For Different Folks" "Whatever Floats Ones Boat"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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barbie

Some m2f transgdener people undergo SRS, but can not pass easily. Several months ago, the media here reported on an m2f transsexual who did not pass well, causing a fuss here.

http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/08/113_140819.html

The m2f transsexual entered the public bath for female to deliver something to her female friend, without paying the fee for the bath, because she thought it would be very short and temporary. One lady saw her, and suspected that a man is intentionally intruding into the bath for possible crime. She called the police by her cell phone, and the m2f was arrested by the police. And, the intruder was found to have undergone SRS already, but did not change the legal sex, causing legal controversy.

Later, the lady, who called the police, said that she does not want any punishment after realizing that the intruder was m2f transsexual.

I just wondered how much embarrassment, despair, and agony the m2f transsexual went through while being interrogated in the police station. She was unlucky, but also careless.

barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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emma.b

The main question I asked myself was, what am I ? Do I really want to be a label society made to differentiate me from other women? Shall I be proud of that label? I'm proud to be the person I am, and of course that means an unique woman. We all are unique persons and regardless of what others gives me as a label, I define myself as I feel. So, being proud of who I am is my goal. Loving myself for my uniqueness is what I'm reaching for.
Of course, I don't think is wrong or bad to identify in a way or another, but it's obvious for me that I'm a woman, being born with a difference. But what woman is not born differently. All women are different and they don't seek for a label for theirs difference.
So yeah, I won't judge anyone for theirs choice of defining themselves but I do fight against labels, because they were invented to define who we are, not to respect us for how we are defining ourselves.
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stephaniec

Quote from: evecrook on December 21, 2013, 02:52:45 PM
I think it's so great everyone on Susan's is so open and honest about themselves and their opinions . I know it's helped me so much in thinking about me being transgender. I just came out to myself and a few others recently It was only a couple months ago that my therapist called me transgender and I got a kick out of it. I'm just happy I found this place even though I've said this before.
wow, I'm glad I found this place too
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stephaniec

just to take the devils advocate point of view, If everyone who is able goes totally stealth how is the hate and the crime ever going to stop against the percentage that need to heal themselves but can't pull off the stealth part. Everybody has the moral and legal right to live there lives the way they prefer to. I'm just curious as to how the disparaging view of the transgender is   going to change. It's up to each of us to make are choices which are neither right or wrong.
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Gina Taylor

Quote from: n/a on December 18, 2013, 03:05:23 PM
Nothing wrong with being out and proud, everyone should live their life as they see fit, not by how others are living theirs.

I agree 100% with n/a. That's how I try to live my life.   :)
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
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Carlita

I was talking to someone in the British trans community the other day about the whole 'stealth' thing, trying to work out how public and out there I should be.

She said, the main thing is to be honest, both with yourself and the world in general. So, yes, you're a woman. But there are lots of types of women: single women, mothers, executive women, women of colour, gay women - tons and tons of different combinations of characteristics. We just happen to be trans-women ... or rather, 'trans' is just one of the adjectives that can be applied to us as women. And it's really healthy to acknowledge that and accept that and own that.

You don't have to go round shouting about it, she said. But you don't want to deny it - to yourself or anyone else - either. And then she told me a story about the dangers of going stealth.

An MTF she used to know had been a successful businessman: intelligent, affluent, and expert at planning and executing important projects. So when she transitioned, she did it really well. She had the best surgery, the best medical help, lovely new clothes - the works. And she came out the other end a beautiful, confident, totally passable woman.

She went totally stealth. Moved house, got a new job ... and fell in love with a great guy, who loved her too. She never told the guy about being trans. Why should she? So far as the world was concerned, she was a "real" woman. When they started living together, she took her stealth to such an extent, she even worked out a menstrual cycle, told him when she was having her period and bought tampons.

The relationship went brilliantly. The guy loved her and she loved him back. In fact, the guy loved her so much, he proposed to her. It was the ultimate trans dream (well, one possible trans dream, anyway - others are available!) - to walk down the aisle in a beautiful wedding dress and become the wife of a wonderful, handsome man.

Except she couldn't do it. She couldn't marry a man without letting him know the truth. It just seemed fundamentally dishonest. But how could she tell him now, after all this time, without making him feel that he'd been lied to and deceived?
Answer: she couldn't. She wracked her brain trying to find the right way to do it, but couldn't come up with an answer. She was stressed, anxious, hyper-tense ... In the end she had a complete nervous breakdown.

She lost her man. She lost her work. She lost it all. And the irony of it all was, if she'd told her guy the truth, when their relationship first became serious, he might very well have accepted her. After all, he loved her.

And that, sisters, is why a little openness, and a lot of pride are a male-to-female transsexual's best friend!

Or so I'm told, anyway ...
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Zumbagirl

Stealth is not really an option though for a long term relationship. In my opinion, and only mine stealth is a double edged sword. It depends on the end goal of the transition. If I wanted to transition, and get married and settle down then I would have to say it, and there would be no stealth. Plus once it's said it can never be taken away. If a relationship ended then who knows who else in town would know my secret if a jilted lover decided to spill the beans out of spite.

Real honest to goodness stealth is a very very quiet and private little life. In this world I don't have to explain my situation to anyone so there is no one to let down. If I want a one night stand, then I can hop in the car, drive a couple of hours away and do whatever I want, without having to worry about wrecking my home base. That's what stealth really looks like. It's not stocking up on tampons and living a lie.
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Carlita

Quote from: Zumbagirl on January 03, 2014, 09:35:08 AM
Stealth is not really an option though for a long term relationship. In my opinion, and only mine stealth is a double edged sword. It depends on the end goal of the transition. If I wanted to transition, and get married and settle down then I would have to say it, and there would be no stealth. Plus once it's said it can never be taken away. If a relationship ended then who knows who else in town would know my secret if a jilted lover decided to spill the beans out of spite.

Real honest to goodness stealth is a very very quiet and private little life. In this world I don't have to explain my situation to anyone so there is no one to let down. If I want a one night stand, then I can hop in the car, drive a couple of hours away and do whatever I want, without having to worry about wrecking my home base. That's what stealth really looks like. It's not stocking up on tampons and living a lie.

Is that "very very quiet and private little life" enough for you, Zumba? (This is a genuine question, BTW, and asked without a shred of criticism).

I can absolutely see why you live as you do, but don't you ever hanker for the comfort of a deeper, emotional relationship and sharing your life with someone else? And suppose you did find someone you really cared about: would you turn down the chance of a relationship if it meant risking your 'stealth' status?

I ask because I think these are very real, profound questions for transsexual women, and I'm still wondering how I'm going to deal with them myself ...
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Zumbagirl

Quote from: Carlita on January 03, 2014, 09:41:49 AM
Is that "very very quiet and private little life" enough for you, Zumba? (This is a genuine question, BTW, and asked without a shred of criticism).

I can absolutely see why you live as you do, but don't you ever hanker for the comfort of a deeper, emotional relationship and sharing your life with someone else? And suppose you did find someone you really cared about: would you turn down the chance of a relationship if it meant risking your 'stealth' status?

I ask because I think these are very real, profound questions for transsexual women, and I'm still wondering how I'm going to deal with them myself ...

My life is very very rewarding thank you. I have hobbies and activities that I do, some friends but not many, an excellent career, a beautiful home. I am actually surprised at how much out of my shell I have become by my transition. It truly has made me into a much better person who really loves life. That's hard to knock and something that Id rather not jeopardize. My goal in life is to do as many things as possible in my lifetime. But that takes money, which means a career, which means keeping quiet. That's the choice I made. You might be different and that's okay too.

Like I said its up to each person to decide what they want out of life. If your goal is to be Mrs Joe The Plumber and get married settle down to a normal looking life, possible adopt a child and be a live at home mom, then go for it. It might be for you, but not for me. Of course there are all kinds of situations in between as well, that will all involve disclosing to some degree. Like I said, that's where real caution needs to be applied. Once it's said it can never be un-said. Once it's out you might as well assume that it will be spread all over town by the end of the week, because it probably will. People in town may be nice to your face, but behind your back you would be the butt of many jokes and would be a pariah in your own home base.

My transition gave me my freedom to live a life less ordinary and I intend to do that to my dying breath. But that's just me.
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