Smitten with Smite

[Anatta]

Kia Ora,

Why do members smite each other ? When we all know that smite only begets more smite...

How does it feel to be the victim of a smite ?
Does one learn a lesson from it?
Does one wait for a chance to 'get even' ?
Does it boost ones self esteem or help to deplete it ?

Metta Zenda

[JRD]

I've never smited, I'd rather say what I have to say in a comment and leave it at that.


I do think it'd be nice if the smiter had a little something to lose every time they chose to smite someone. Like maybe if one smite cost two of your positive points or something like that. It would make people think twice before smiting.

[Jill F]

I've been bad.  Can I smite myself?  JK

[Donna Elvira]

I've never smited, I'd rather say what I have to say in a comment and leave it at that.


I do think it'd be nice if the smiter had a little something to lose every time they chose to smite someone. Like maybe if one smite cost two of your positive points or something like that. It would make people think twice before smiting.

Hi BHHF (what a name! )
If you look around, you will see that there is very, very little smiting and far more +1 's distributed. This is as it should be and, as an alternative to your suggestion, I would like to suggest that someone who does get a smite should have the smite removed after 1 month for example if there hasn't been another one in between times, a bit like the points system used for driving offenses in many countries.
However they do serve a purpose, they are a warning when someone's behaviour is perceived as being excessively/needlessly  provocative and in pretty well all the cases I have seen, they come with an explanation.
Getting back to my previous suggestion, I do think they should only be temporary though and a member  who was smiting left, right and center might indeed deserve to be smitten by the hand of whoever in return ...
Hugs
Donna
 

[BunnyBee]

I don't think I would ever smite anybody.  It takes a LOT to get me to even tell somebody I think they are being terrible, and I would do that so much sooner than leaving a smite for them.  I think both reflect equally poorly on me as them.

[bethany]

It takes a lot to get me upset enough to smite someone. In fact I have only given 1 smite since I been here. Thats not to say others have not deserved one it's just my rule that I will not smite a post that has already been giving one. And if I applaud someone it has to be something really outstanding if I give a +1 to a post that has been applauded already

[Joe.]

I think smites are a good thing, when used in the right way. I don't believe that people should get smites for little things,  but if somebody continuously insults people and is rude no matter how many times they are spoken to privately or pubkicly then yes, I believe they should be smited. I have made a few smites in my time here and I'm not afraid to say so. Why is it ok for people to be outright rude to people and not get punished for it, even after they have been spoken to?

Also, smites serve a purpose for me too, I don't want a smite, so every time I post something I am aware of what I say. I guess for me they're a prevention that scares me into not saying anything bad.

[Ltl89]

Just my opinion, but I dislike the smite function.  If I dislike something, I will respond to it.  Something about smiting them just makes me feel bad and awkward.  And I don't think they serve the intended purpose.  How many members that receive consistent smites actually change their ways?  Very few.  Also, I've seen a lot of smites that get handed out for dubious reasons.  Even when it's justified, it just feels weird to have a ranking system on a support site.  It can create bad vibes and make some members feel marginalized.  I understand the smite concept and don't fault those who use the function, but it does makes me feel a little uncomfortable.  I don't know. 

Nonetheless, that is only my opinion.  It isn't my site or my decision which is fine. 

[DriftingCrow]

I tend to see it as thumbs up/thumbs down like you'd review a movie or book with. I tend to give "thumbs up"a lot more and have only given a few "thumbs down". I only give things thumbs down to stuff that's particularly disgusting, offensive, and/or discriminatory, and I always think two or three times before I do it.

[MadeleineG]

Public shaming in support groups connected with adaptive regression. It's an analogy worth reflecting on.

http://ubc-emotionlab.ca/wp-content/files_mf/randlestracycpsinpress49.pdf

[Joe.]

But if somebody is consistently rude and offensive to people in a place that's supposed to be supportive, why should they be able to get away with it? Smites are used to show the person they have done wrong and then you'd hope that that would make them reflect on what they have done wrong. It's like with children, if they misbehave and they get away with it then the behaviour continues but if you tell them what they have done wrong then they know not to do it again. To some people the smite system is pointless, but to others it's not.

But above all of this, we're a family. People might argue that family shouldn't smite each other and tell each other off, but the truth of the matter is if somebody in my family calls MTFs 'men' or says FTMs aren't men, then I would tell them it's wrong. I love every single member of this site. I don't see eye to eye with everybody but that's what families are like. Just because I smite somebody, it doesn't mean that I love them any less, it just means that I found their behaviour unacceptable and I felt a smite was appropriate.

[bethany]

But if somebody is consistently rude and offensive to people in a place that's supposed to be supportive, why should they be able to get away with it? Smites are used to show the person they have done wrong and then you'd hope that that would make them reflect on what they have done wrong. It's like with children, if they misbehave and they get away with it then the behaviour continues but if you tell them what they have done wrong then they know not to do it again. To some people the smite system is pointless, but to others it's not.

But above all of this, we're a family. People might argue that family shouldn't smite each other and tell each other off, but the truth of the matter is if somebody in my family calls MTFs 'men' or says FTMs aren't men, then I would tell them it's wrong. I love every single member of this site. I don't see eye to eye with everybody but that's what families are like. Just because I smite somebody, it doesn't mean that I love them any less, it just means that I found their behaviour unacceptable and I felt a smite was appropriate.

^+1

Perfectly said Joe. There is noting I can add to this.

[Devlyn]

It's not a one sided system, if we assign a value to being smited, we must also assign a value to being applauded. As Donna pointed out, the applauds vastly outweigh the smites. If the system is having an effect, it is by and large a positive effect in my opinion.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Nero]

Note: I think this is a good thoughtful topic, so to save it I have removed some off topic references to the running of the site and to a particular poster. No fault of the participants; I just want to keep this a neutral discussion with no reference to individuals.

So, I'd like to see discussion on the questions asked by Anatta.

How does it feel to be the victim of a smite ?
Does one learn a lesson from it?
Does one wait for a chance to 'get even' ?
Does it boost ones self esteem or help to deplete it ?

Have you been smited on this site?
How did it make you feel?
Do you think you learned a lesson from it?
Did it make you feel like you needed to get even with the smiter?
Did it have an impact on your self image at all (either on the site or in general)?

Please keep this vague and do not mention any names. You may talk about the circumstances surrounding the smite you were given - but in a general way as Devlyn did 'I was smited for using a swear word'. Don't go into specifics. We're talking about the effect the smite had on you. So resist the urge to defend yourself or blame the one who gave you the smite. If you can do this, I think this could be a productive discussion.

I'll go first with the smite I remember best. Years ago, before I was admin here, I was a lot blunter than I am now. I ended up making a comment that wasn't directed to any particular person but ended up insulting someone deeply. I didn't realize there was anything wrong with the comment (after all, I was just being 'honest') until someone smited me for it. I immediately messaged her back to find out what was up. When I realized I had caused great offense, I apologized profusely. I hadn't meant to hurt anyone. I thought I was being funny.  I was deeply distressed by my actions. The lady forgave me, even giving me an applaud.

Have you been smited on this site? Yes.

How did it make you feel? Ashamed of my actions.

Do you think you learned a lesson from it?
Yes. I did learn a lesson from it and was more careful about what I said from then on.

Does one wait for a chance to 'get even' ? Never felt any animosity toward the smiter. More like concern for having caused her distress.

Did it have an impact on your self image at all (either on the site or in general)?
As far as affecting my self image on the site or in general, I don't think it did. I felt bad that I caused hurt. But I didn't feel the smite marred my image or anything. Everyone makes mistakes and says the wrong thing at times.

However, I deserved the smite. If I felt I hadn't, I may have felt differently. But when I've upset someone, my first inclination is to find out what went wrong, not find reasons to justify it. But the statement I was smited for was worse than any I've seen for awhile.  So smiting can serve a good function but I've also seen it cause long standing grudges over simple misunderstandings. I see a lot of smites given which might have been better served by a reply to the offending post or even a pm.

[Beth Andrea]

I vaguely recall smiting someone here, but always felt guilty about it. It's better (I have found, in my experience) to just send a PM, with a short passage telling why I disagree with a particular post...usually it's concern about triggering others, or considering a different point of view.

I like the "applause" function though. I get warm fuzzies when I do someone good or someone does me good.

Err...wait...

[Ms Grace]

Thanks FA...what I'd ask you, of your experience in being smited, had the offended party sent you a PM instead, to explain why they felt insulted would that have made as big an impact on you and changed your behaviour on the site anyway?

[Devlyn]

Have you been smited on this site? Yes.

How did it make you feel? I wear it like a battle scar. I took one for the team on this occasion.

Do you think you learned a lesson from it? Yes, it wasn't smart to break the TOS and post profanity.

Does one wait for a chance to 'get even'?  No. You're smiting the posts, not the poster.

[Nero]

Thanks FA...what I'd ask you, of your experience in being smited, had the offended party sent you a PM instead, to explain why they felt insulted would that have made as big an impact on you and changed your behaviour on the site anyway?

Good question. I'm not sure. But I did have another experience where the person just replied to my post which hit me really hard. Like I said, I was blunter in those days. And made what I thought was a joke in reply to a post (this one was less clearly nasty than the above situation; I really thought I was being light hearted and funny). The OP replied with part of the reply reading 'I hope this makes you feel as small as you have just made me feel'. I think I was more deeply affected by this than the above situation. In fact, even writing this I have tears in my eyes. I felt awful. I tried to apologize and explain that I hadn't meant it that way, but never heard from the member again. 

In all my years here, there are a few moments that really hit me hard and made me more careful what I say. I can still sometimes be blunt, but it's rare and not nearly as bad as I once was. So yes, to answer the question, I think many times a reply or pm can work just as well or sometimes better.

[Donna Elvira]

I also deeply believe that positive reinforcement works far better than beating people up and have so far maintained ony one smite in more than 8 months presence on the site. Even that one I felt bad about, especially as the person concerned quit the site shortly afterwards but in that particular case I had PM'd the person with some friendly advice before going to the next step.
Should I again see something that looks totally off limits to me I would also certainly use a PM before using a smite, avoiding as much as possible knee jerk reactions that you can regret afterwards.  This leaves the person concerned  the opportunity to react before picking up a metaphorical black eye. However, if a person doesn't take any account of feedback, I still think smites  have their place, all the more so as there seems to be a consensus here to use them very sparingly.
Hugs
Donna

[Ltl89]

Let me say this, my disagreement with smiting is not intended to be a put down to anyone here who has used it.  I simply disagree with the practice.  To be honest, there are times that I was tempted and some scenarios where I feel it's justified.  However, I can't help but wonder how it would make the person on the other side feel.  As many of you have noticed by now, I tend to be very emotional and sometimes say things in the moment, but I strive to be as productive as possible when I have a dispute.  Telling someone why I disagree and trying to reach them feels more satisfactory than a quick smite.  It's an easier way to build common ground and to keep an inclusive environment while respecting differences.  And I feel that's what we should strive for here , even if we all make mistakes and have misteps (I'm not excused from this either).  Smites, whether the intended purpose or not, usually don't reach people in the intended way.  Those that deserve one often aren't moved to change their ways and those who made mistakes but can be reached or reasoned with often back away once they feel unwelcome (which is an unintentional consequence of a smite).  So, what's there to be gained?   Perhaps I am to sensitive and think about what the smite may do to someone else.  I've been there myself and it ruined my day even if that sounds silly.  I don't want that to happen to someone else and want everyone to feel welcome and included.  And believe me, there are people that I'm not fond of, but I have to look past that so they can have a supportive environment as well.

As for the questions, no my smite didn't make me dislike the member in question or desire revenge, but I didn't feel that my behavior in that case was bad.  I simply felt like a lesser on the site and unwelcomed when it occurred.  That may not be true in reality, but that was how it felt.  Remember, I'm a sensitive and emotional girl and can take personal shots very much to heart, lol.  I suspect there are many such people on a support site as we sometimes come at our weakest moments.  So, that's one of the reasons I censor myself from smiting.

Again, this is only my opinion.  I respect the decision of the staff to have this system and don't begrudge anyone who uses it.  It's just my own personal feelings on the matter.