Yet another Yeson VFS thread

[anjaq]

Ah, Lara, you are also from Berlin? Nice. Yes - I have read that Nordwind text now several times too. they have another one but I forgot it .

[anjaq]

So Amy, I guess its time to wish you a safe journey later today!

[AmyBerlin]

Hi all,

arrived well, moved into room, feeling horribly drained. More later.

Amy

[AmyBerlin]

Hi all,

so I got everything done, recorded the singing samples (a well-known song in 3 different keys, one original baritone, one "fake alto" and one a "pushed fake alto"), although I haven't mixed them yet, and went onto my way to Seoul, where I am now.

Thankfully my greatest fears did not materialize and I didn't catch a cold on the plane and the diarrhea I had just days ago is also gone. I'm becoming calmer by the hour, although there is still a little bit of unrest that will hopefully disappear once I've had my consultation with Dr. Kim tomorrow 1:30 PM local time, when we'll go over the plan for my voice. And Wednesday is the big day...

I'll keep you posted how things develop!

Regards,

Amy

[Shantel]

Wishing you well Amy!

[Allyda]

Yes Amy best wishes and congrat's on arriving OK.

[AmyBerlin]

Hi everybody,

here's my Seoul update: after spending a nice evening out in Jongno district with Saskia, we rested and slept off most of our jet lag, and later went to Yeson for the pre-op examination. I have a very favorable impression both of Dr. Kim and of Jessie and of the entire organization.

Turns out there's good news: my "boy mode" voice was measured at around 155 Hz, my "practiced feminine" at 175. There's no tremor – so potentially no Botox in the end –, except for the extremely low range, where it might be present because of disuse. Subglottic pressure and air flow are rather high, though, which may be from years of using breathiness as a feminizing tool.

The length of my vocal cords is right at the borderline between male and female voice boxes (which may be why I never developed an Adam's Apple), however, they are thick and heavy. So he decided on suturing just 1/3 of them, but is going to pay attention to creating a nice tapered suture (more below) in order to enable the vocal folds to "speak" better at higher frequencies (which I need for singing). All in all, Dr. Kim is estimating my speaking F0 to be around 220 Hz post-surgically, which should be almost exactly female average. BTW, Dr. Kim calculates the frequency up from the masculine natural speaking pitch, not from the trained female pronunciation.

The material Dr. Kim is using for the sutures is permanent, but gets embedded in mucosa rather quickly, which is why it's not visible in Jenny's 1-year-post picture.
The "tapered suture" mentioned above is actually one of the key points that set Dr. Kim apart from other glottoplasty surgeons: his first stitch, closest to the old anterior commissure, goes deep and grasps the entire vocal cords and even some of the material underneath and to the sides, to lend maximum stability. The second stitch grasps less and the third one only the medial section of the vocal folds. In this manner he not only ensures a clean contact point in front at the new commissure, but by eliminating a pocket of static air underneath the sutured section that could lead to turbulence at the new commissure also improves sound quality in this way.

Let's see what tomorrow brings. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

Amy

[anjaq]

I wish you all the best. I feel excited for you!

[Gigi_J]

Wow, Dr. Kim certainly knows his stuff..it's all the more apparent with the info you just posted - it's nice to know he really does analyse our voices to such depth before the procedure.

Sending best wishes for tomorrow!

Gigi

[AmyBerlin]

Hi all,

here's my postoperative summary. Actually, everything happened in precisely the same way as Saskia, who was quicker at writing down her experience, described in her previous post: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,154975.msg1409571.html#msg1409571, only 1:45 hrs earlier, so there's no need to repeat it here, just to point out the differences:

Since it was determined in the preoperative exam that my vocal folds were short, but thick, I did not receive the customary 3 stitches, but just 2, which covered the 1/3 of total vocal fold length that we had agreed on. Any asymmetry correction was not necessary.

Sadly, as we said goodbye, Jessie told me that nevertheless, Dr. Kim still plans to perform a Botox injection on me – precisely what I wanted to avoid.

And, I have to concur with Saskia: It's extremely hard getting used to not talking, but I think I'm doing a pretty good job at it ;-)

Stay tuned for more,

Amy

[Boca.Lisa]

Good luck and quick recovery Amy. Fingers crossed for you!

[Allyda]

Unfortunately I'm going to have to have my VFS here in the US. I don't have to sing, but I'll need to find a surgeon here with some TG experience. If anybody knows of one in Florida near the Tampa Bay area please let me know.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I wish you a very speedy recovery Amy!!

[FalseHybridPrincess]

I wish you a quick recovery

[anjaq]

My best recovery wishes as well, Amy. We'll be in contact, I guess

Allyda, why are you bound to do this in the US? Insurance coverage??? I heard only good reports up to now from one surgeon in the US and that is Dr Thomas in Portland. But my knowledge on this is limited, I only get the names that seem to have an international reputation

[Jennygirl]

Best recovery wishes from me too Amy!

Allyda- That is unfortunate, honestly there is no other surgeon I could recommend that does it the way Dr. Kim does (using a scalpel & manual suture rather than a laser).

The laser technique doesn't seem to heal as well (from my research). I think Dr. Kim's fine tuned scalpel method is far less trauma and I think that's how he boasts such great results from his procedure.

Be VERY careful when selecting a voice surgeon.

[Shantel]

Best recovery wishes from me too Amy!

Allyda- That is unfortunate, honestly there is no other surgeon I could recommend that does it the way Dr. Kim does (using a scalpel & manual suture rather than a laser).

The laser technique doesn't seem to heal as well (from my research). I think Dr. Kim's fine tuned scalpel method is far less trauma and I think that's how he boasts such great results from his procedure.

Be VERY careful when selecting a voice surgeon.

Yes Allyda, Jenny is right, listen to her and Anja on this. Even Dr. Thomas has wrecked a few folks voices, it's been a crap shoot up until Dr. Kim was found by JennyGirl.

[alexiakk]

Hi all,

here's my postoperative summary. Actually, everything happened in precisely the same way as Saskia, who was quicker at writing down her experience, described in her previous post: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,154975.msg1409571.html#msg1409571, only 1:45 hrs earlier, so there's no need to repeat it here, just to point out the differences:

Since it was determined in the preoperative exam that my vocal folds were short, but thick, I did not receive the customary 3 stitches, but just 2, which covered the 1/3 of total vocal fold length that we had agreed on. Any asymmetry correction was not necessary.

Sadly, as we said goodbye, Jessie told me that nevertheless, Dr. Kim still plans to perform a Botox injection on me – precisely what I wanted to avoid.

And, I have to concur with Saskia: It's extremely hard getting used to not talking, but I think I'm doing a pretty good job at it ;-)

Stay tuned for more,

Amy

Yes Amy, I just want to avoid Botox injection also. It only lasts for 4 months and you shouldn't be using your voice a lot until 2 months post-op, so I don't really see the point to get an extra botox injection (plus you don't have tremor! I envy you!)

If "no botox" would not produce a worse result (which I don't know), I will avoid botox this time , but if voices go poor only because no botox, I'm gonna be scared...

[AmyBerlin]

Dear Alessia,

Yes Amy, I just want to avoid Botox injection also. It only lasts for 4 months and you shouldn't be using your voice a lot until 2 months post-op, so I don't really see the point to get an extra botox injection (plus you don't have tremor! I envy you!)

Let's put it like this: the Botox is only a temporary fix. And what it should fix is debatable, because what Dr. Kim diagnosed in my voice as a tremor in the extreme low range was just the natural vibrato that develops when you don't consciously support the note. Had I supported it properly (as I did the higher notes), the tremor/vibrato wouldn't have been there and the whole debate would be moot.

If "no botox" would not produce a worse result (which I don't know), I will avoid botox this time , but if voices go poor only because no botox, I'm gonna be scared...

That is the great unknown. Maybe the Botox aids in the healing process by temporarily relaxing the vocal cords. We don't know, because so far, we've only had Botox candidates here.

Best wishes,

Amy

[Allyda]

Best recovery wishes from me too Amy!

Allyda- That is unfortunate, honestly there is no other surgeon I could recommend that does it the way Dr. Kim does (using a scalpel & manual suture rather than a laser).

The laser technique doesn't seem to heal as well (from my research). I think Dr. Kim's fine tuned scalpel method is far less trauma and I think that's how he boasts such great results from his procedure.

Be VERY careful when selecting a voice surgeon.

As you and Auntie Shan know Jennygirl I greatly value your opinions and recommendations. I'm not in a big hurry (well, you know what I mean) so I will consider and check out the reputaion of all possible surgeons before I choose or commit to anything. I've heard a few horror stories from other sources as well. In addition I too am very leary of anything involving botox.

Anjaq you are correct, insurance coverage greatly has a hand on where I have my surgeries done.

I would of course love to have this done by Dr. Kim where Jennygirl, and Amy have had theirs done. However, I haven't the resources to make that possible. Though I do work for myself part time when I can, due to my aircraft accident in 91 I'm on a fixed income and haven't any family I can count on for help so I'm all alone with the exception of my few good friends (you girls know who you are) and my lovely family here on Susan's for moral support and guidance. So I unfortunately have to work with the resources available to me. I may have one option and that's to use part of my refinance funds (my current home is almost paid off) but it would depend of course on total cost/s of not just the surgery, but the trip as well.

I really do sincerely appreciate your advice and concern Jennygirl, Auntie Shan, Anjaq, I actually have a few tears of joy right now knowing y'all care about me like this. I promise I will be careful.
I thank y'all for just being the wonderful women you are.
Sorry for gettin mushy. I'm not that used to this.

Amy I'm happy to hear your doing OK. I agree it can be wierd not being able to talk for a while. All my hopes and best wishes for the best possible outcome.

Ally

[alexiakk]

Dear Alessia,

Let's put it like this: the Botox is only a temporary fix. And what it should fix is debatable, because what Dr. Kim diagnosed in my voice as a tremor in the extreme low range was just the natural vibrato that develops when you don't consciously support the note. Had I supported it properly (as I did the higher notes), the tremor/vibrato wouldn't have been there and the whole debate would be moot.

That is the great unknown. Maybe the Botox aids in the healing process by temporarily relaxing the vocal cords. We don't know, because so far, we've only had Botox candidates here.

Best wishes,

Amy

Thanks for the reply Amy. I have the same feeling about what you said about natural vibrato vs. what Dr. Kim said about tremor; sometimes it's just control and the shape of oral cavity... and vibrato should naturally happen if one sing correctly (this is what I heard from a vocal coach, but I'm not really sure). I don't really see the point to artificially kill those vibratos, and I can't even imagine a singer always sing like a straight line - unless he's/she's singing military music. LOL

So, what's your decision about botox injection? I'm kinda curious