maybe, just maybe.

[BGLW]

Uh, hey you guys. I haven't posted here in awhile, but I have something itching away at the back of my mind.

I'm currently pre-t and pre-op (basically pre-everything still) and currently living with my uncle. I'm out to most of the family members in my house, and they don't try very hard if at all with my pronouns/name etc, but they're accepting of me and I think my uncle is slowly beginning to come around (shopping for men's clothing/shoes with me, etc) but I'm still trying to convince my family that my transition is a higher priority to me than even my education, which they all want me to focus on.

I've been searching around for a qualified therapist/psychologist who could help me sort out my issues but can't really find any nearby (we aren't doing so well on transportation at the moment either). I want to discuss perhaps altogether ditching the hardships of waiting extra time and getting consent from my uncle to find an informed consent clinic in order to perhaps begin HRT (if I can find a clinic later on and begin, the travel will be worth it and by then I will likely be able to pay him). please correct me if I have a misconception of how it works (from what I gather, they thoroughly inform you, ask for your/your guardian's consent and if you agree and your medical conditions are good, they prescribe HRT), I'm not the most well informed person ever. ^^"  anyhow, I want to be able to discuss it with him and if there're any tips or advice on informed consent clinics and bringing up the discussion, I'll gladly welcome them.

I apologise if this didn't make much sense. It's about 4am for me!

Thanks, Corny

[LordKAT]

You have the informed consent down right. Therapists can be found in amazing places, such as college campuses and on the internet. There is a list of online therapists and I think some informed consent clinics. It may be worth it to go to college and make use of the facilities there. You would have to check with the college to see of they have resources to help you as not all do.

[Cindy]

I apologize if this isn't what you wanted.

Informed consent (most models) you talk to a therapist who is usually a psychiatrist who forms an opinion that you are capable of making a decision knowing all the facts. That you understand the long term effect of treatment and can deal with those issues.

You realise that the effects of treatment are essentially irreversible. You have no co-morbidities.

You are independently capable of making the decision, there are provision for people under care.

It is NOT a freelance 'yes give me hormones I can deal with it.'

Informed consent is different for minors, you have to have consent from your legal guardian(s). And in minors hormones are rarely prescribed, usually just puberty blockers alone.


Hope this helps ask me if you need more info.

Cindy

[BGLW]

Thanks a whole bunch. ^^ I think I'll research a little more as I see I have a gist of the idea but I obviously can't know the entire process. As for college resources and online, I'll have to check into that. Its not a bad idea. I'm going to be in therapy/counseling  pretty soon, and knowing my luck I'll end up waiting anyways. But who knows?

Ah, anyhow, enough of me before I go into a ramble.
Again thanks for the quick responses!

Corny

[LordKAT]

No worries. Come back and visit any time. Good luck with whatever way you choose to go.

[Magnus]

"I'm still trying to convince my family that my transition is a higher priority to me than even my education, which they all want me to focus on."

You aren't going to want to hear this but you really need too. Your family is absolutely right.

The days where a high school diploma alone could get you a decent and livable wage job or even a career, are well and truly long gone now and will remain so for the indefinite 'future'. The only remaining value in a high school education is that if you earn at least a 3.5 GPA, it will provide you the opportunity to qualify for grants and therefore to secure at least a trade or vocational school, if not even a full four-year track. I'll tell you, the only thing employers care about is that piece of paper and absolutely nothing else. I'm not even joking in the least when I tell you that a requirement for a cafeteria job now lists "culinary school". Yes, a $20,000+ education to assemble sandwiches and salads for barely minimum wage! Let's just say it won't surprise me in the least when Janitorial will demand a Bachelor's in Chemistry.

If you really want a shot at a future, you will put everything else on hold for now until you have secured those grants and therefore an opportunity to stand a chance at all in a largely failing (more like already failed, IMO) job market. You have right now until 18, do not waste that time. If you do, you can fairly much say goodbye to being able to live let alone to transition. I'm just telling you the way this world really is now. I know it isn't pretty and certainly not ideal, but that's just the way things are today and they are not going to change for a very long time.

You do not want to wind up like me. I didn't see any of this coming back in 2007, I didn't know what was going to happen (nobody did, least of all a 17 year old kid) and that I'd wind up 24 and still going nowhere fast, and with those now seven years further putting me down on the potential hire candidate pools (ARGH!). If I did I'd have done things very differently. I would have stopped screwing around and hit the books as hard as I could. Without grants I can't get a higher education because all of the "entry-level" jobs have about 3,000 other potential hires waiting in line, of all walks of life... and those were the only way to be able to attempt to get that higher education without having to go into total finical ruin in student loan debt and which has precisely doubled (in other words, you would NEVER, EVER get out of debt for as long as your natural life... your surviving family, if any, would also get slammed for the rest after you died. THAT really is how it now is). It is an extremely vicious cycle and there is no escape.

Again, you do NOT want to wind up in this position. Yes, I'm on T... but I'm now stuck in-between, too (still no regrets but this really is not a good place to be in either). I will probably never be able to afford even just a sub-par quality top surgery at this rate. I've made barely $1,000 per year and most of that has to go into things I need like clothes and shoes and you know, the bare essentials. It sucks, but hey at least I'm blessed with a family not prepared to toss me out to starve to death and that well could have went that way so I'm thankful... but at the same time, this really isn't living either. But it's what I've got.

I'm just saying, do everything you can do to make a future where there otherwise is none. You will regret it for the rest of your life otherwise.

Higher education first and transition second. I know, you want it the other way or just one way... but that can't be anymore. You're going to need a good, steady income for transition and to get money you're going to have to be able to get employed and to get employed now you NEED a higher education, ANY higher education. This is coming from REAL-LIFE experience. It won't happen any other way unless of course you happen to have a rich and supportive relative? I doubt it. I sure don't and even if I did I'd never ask.

Anyway. Just my $0.02 (about all I can afford. Spend it well).

BTW... this is your competition: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/11/record-high-91-5-million-people-not-included-in-labor-force/

91,541,000+ Americans also looking for employment. Including me. Good luck.

[Alexthecat]

Magnus must live in a bad place with no jobs to only make 1000 a year. I make at least 10-15k a year with no college. I'm having top surgery then going to school. Then I won't be miserable when I'm focusing on my studies.

[LordKAT]

The BLS defines a person "[n]ot in the labor force" as age 16 and older who are not employed and not considered to be unemployed as they have not looked for work in the four weeks prior to the survey.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/11/record-high-91-5-million-people-not-included-in-labor-force/#ixzz2pdUaGqt0

You don't find work if you are not looking and even part time work means you are in the work force. This doesn't back you up.

Transition first isn't a bad idea. Some colleges have things that can help with transition so you may be able to do both. It is very hard to study if dysphoria is so consuming as to interfere with your concentration. In that case alleviating the dysphoria first is very important.

[Magnus]

You don't find work if you are not looking and even part time work means you are in the work force. This doesn't back you up.

Transition first isn't a bad idea. Some colleges have things that can help with transition so you may be able to do both. It is very hard to study if dysphoria is so consuming as to interfere with your concentration. In that case alleviating the dysphoria first is very important.

Right, I'm a liar. I haven't been applying twice a month to every job posting within 50 miles the past seven years and neither has anyone else. We really are just lazy and unwilling to work... yeah, that must be it.

Ignore me OP, I'm just lazy. The world is absolutely wonderful, totally nothing wrong with it at all and you'll get everything you need AND want because the economy actually is healthy and jobs are a dime a dozen, they're not laying anyone off for any reason and it's all just doing fine.

No, I'm sorry. The reason there are 91,541,000+ not looking anymore is because THERE IS NOTHING TO LOOK FOR ANYMORE. I would have thought that quite common-sense enough to not have had to clarify it. Apologies for my oversight in previous wordage.

[BGLW]

I really appreciate the insight from everyone, and the advice, but I didn't want people in a stressful discussion. I understand that the world is not all sugar and ease. I've never lived with a part of my family that lived over the poverty line, but I never lived uncomfortably commodity-wise. I understand the importance of my education, but my medical transition is also very important to me. I'm not scared about securing my educational future. I already qualify for several art and academic based scholarships and I certainly don't plan to live luxuriously or frivolously. Yes, I do have social anxieties– never being allowed a real job, thus little professional experience being a major one. I understand it is hard to get along, especially with the US going the way it is. But I would rather struggle in my own skin than live in someone else's, if that makes sense. If at all possible, I'd like to try to transition sometime before or during college, which is likely my best decision. Everything else I've had to wait for has done me ill (the waiting that is– hostile environment, not having the eyeglasses I needed, etc)  and this is already beginning to be pretty hard on my mental and emotional facilities (not to mention various things like pain, respiratory infection, etc from binding)

Sorry if I caused trouble. Again, though, I do appreciate input.

Corny

[LordKAT]

Right, I'm a liar. I haven't been applying twice a month to every job posting within 50 miles the past seven years and neither has anyone else. We really are just lazy and unwilling to work... yeah, that must be it.

Ignore me OP, I'm just lazy. The world is absolutely wonderful, totally nothing wrong with it at all and you'll get everything you need AND want because the economy actually is healthy and jobs are a dime a dozen, they're not laying anyone off for any reason and it's all just doing fine.

No, I'm sorry. The reason there are 91,541,000+ not looking anymore is because THERE IS NOTHING TO LOOK FOR ANYMORE. I would have thought that quite common-sense enough to not have had to clarify it. Apologies for my oversight in previous wordage.

No one said you were lazy  or anything else that you brought up. The article you linked to said that many people were not looking for work, perhaps due to schooling, especially since it counted kids from the age of 16 on up. It said nothing about people who were looking for work.

[aleon515]

I apologize if this isn't what you wanted.

Informed consent (most models) you talk to a therapist who is usually a psychiatrist who forms an opinion that you are capable of making a decision knowing all the facts. That you understand the long term effect of treatment and can deal with those issues.

You realise that the effects of treatment are essentially irreversible. You have no co-morbidities.

You are independently capable of making the decision, there are provision for people under care.

It is NOT a freelance 'yes give me hormones I can deal with it.'

Informed consent is different for minors, you have to have consent from your legal guardian(s). And in minors hormones are rarely prescribed, usually just puberty blockers alone.


Hope this helps ask me if you need more info.

Cindy

Don't know what country the OP is in Cindy, but in the US that is NOT the model. The model is for informed consent is this: You do NOT see a therapist. The prescribing doctor has has some kind of statement, which in most cases you would sign. This is a statement of benefits and risks. It says you are going into this with your eyes open essentially. I believe in some cases a patient advocate gives the information and helps the person and not the prescribing doctor.IFAIK, this is the kind of model practiced by centers like Howard Brown in Chicago (I think the largest informed consent center in the US) and elsewhere (for instance we have one here in Albuquerque). I do NOT believe minors, in this situation can do informed consent, as they are not able to legally form consent.  So they would have to use other ways of getting T (or other hormones). The presumption would be that you would be competent. I have never heard of a situation where the person wasn't considered to be so and would need a psychiatrist to say they are competent (as you wouldn't to do something else adult like buy a house).

Now not that it isn't a good IDEA to see a therapist. I would recommend it, as transition is a BIG deal. In this case you just go to a therapist to talk about transition, and it is probably a good idea to go to one who knows about gender issues.

There may be some other models elsewhere, so I don't want to say the one you describe is never used, just not typical in the US.

HTH,

--Jay

[BGLW]

Ah, I see. For future reference, I'll be sure to mention I'm in the US. ^^"
As far as informed consent vs. seeing a therapist first, it won't be horribly long before I'm able to go either route, but I'd like to get the ball rolling as soon as possible, which means more research. However I know I can't achieve everything overnight, so I'll have to roll with whatever options come my way.

Thanks again.

Corny

[AdamMLP]

I have to say I also see the sense in focusing on education. I don't know where I'd be without the opportunity I managed to get, although it means putting transition on a hold for now. It's hard, I won't pretend that it isn't. It's so hard. And I can see that it could be distracting and detrimental to getting stuff done, but good opportunities don't stick around forever. Just because you could get into college now doesn't mean you will be able to later.

I'm not saying don't try to transition now, just think very carefully. One's the easy route and one isn't, but you've got the future to think of too.

[BGLW]

It is hard, putting it on hold, and pretty distracting or hindering me sometimes, but I do as well see the point in continuing my education as soon as I can. I really just need to keep set priorities and make a good plan that revolves around my education and fit in my transition where I can, I suppose.
Thanks again. The responses I've gotten are really making me think a bit more in depth about things. ^^

[Bimmer Guy]

It is hard, putting it on hold, and pretty distracting or hindering me sometimes, but I do as well see the point in continuing my education as soon as I can. I really just need to keep set priorities and make a good plan that revolves around my education and fit in my transition where I can, I suppose.
Thanks again. The responses I've gotten are really making me think a bit more in depth about things. ^^

The sentence I bolded makes a lot of sense to me.  Plan on going to school and finding out how you can start on testosterone at the same time.  You don't have to choose, do you?  If you are talking saving for top surgery, that is something else.  I guess I am not understanding why some people see it as either/or, unless they are talking top surgery?

You may find that testosterone itself can help with the dysphoria enough that you can muddle through without surgery for a few years.  Transmen have lived this way for decades.

Good luck in your decision making.

[BGLW]

Heh, I'm glad I'm not as clueless as I feel sometimes. ^^" I'm going to talk to my uncle about what I need to do soon and see what he thinks. For now I'm going to just focus on prioritizing before I leap.

Thanks!

[sneakersjay]

Hmm.  My kid got a job in the boonies making $11/hr before turning 18 and with no college education.  And is still there 2+ years later, working full time plus overtime and making $22,000/yr doing it.  So it's not impossible to get a job without a college degree.

Also if you have some talents you can start your own business.  Shoveling snow, raking leaves, taking photographs, clearing brush, hauling away junk.  Put an ad on craigslist or something.  My brother has hired tons of people from there to do odd jobs for him.

[BGLW]

o.o $11 an hour sounds impressive for not jumping through massive hoops, and especially under the age of 18. The most I've gotten per hour of work was $10, and it was just for two hours helping cut down/apart trees and carry the limbs off of someone's yard (which, admittedly, is a reasonable amount). Good paying jobs were scarce where I used to live unless you either had a college degree or did jobs for a person or people individually rather than a company (and they weren't broke too).

I've been considering getting a job during the summer to help me save up money I need, whether with a business or for individuals. I live out in the country part of our town, I guess you could say, so I might be able to find a place to work without much stress. It depends. I'll just have to ask around.

[sneakersjay]

The town where my kid works has a population of 2,000 and the nearest 'big' town has 7,000 people.  Not a major metropolis by any means. So keep looking!


Jay