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~ The ceaseless cogs of confusion ~

Started by Stella Stanhope, January 08, 2014, 06:29:33 PM

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Stella Stanhope

Argh...posted twice and can't delete this post. Please see below for the actual post! :-)
There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
  •  

Stella Stanhope

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on January 08, 2014, 06:29:33 PM
Sommat a bit theatrical as a post title I must admit, as I've just begun playing the game"Alice: Madness Returns" on t'X Box. Much as I enjoy the incredulous insanity of Grand Theft Auto, I really feel a sense of simpler joy at playing a female character as eccentric Alice! I wish I could swoosh into a swarm of butterflies & fire teapot cannons. Anywho...back onto more serious matters, indeed.

Its the confusion, I race in circles as to what the cause and solution is to my gender issues. The more I strive the answers...the more further away they recede. There's clarity now, the thoughts are in clear focus and the puzzle is making sense. I am now in the "boss level" of my gender, the final round (mentally and emotionally speaking). Years and years of wishy-washy thoughts, conflicting emotions, confusing thoughts & isolated incidents are all conspiring together, a jigsaw of a life. All this recent clarity has shown me that - No, I'm not making this up. I am transgender. There was always an issue with my male identity & masculinity and its finally triggered a recent catastrophic failure of that identity. The penny has finally dropped that I really should have been t'other gender all along.

But, what next? And this is what is REALLY bugging me. No one has the true answers. But that isn't stopping society feeding me wrong answers or oblique critiques in the hope I'll just snap out of it. As well as that, I'm also at the boss level of the NHS - their decision stage as to how (if at all) they may treat me. The therapy sessions with the NHS have been amazing, very much appreciate, and I am hopeful as they know their stuff. Yet still I get the the inkling that they don't seem to want to make a decision, perhaps they may be hoping I'll just snap out of it too ultimately. So I'm in the unusual situation of being actively helped to sort this out, with people who appear to actively want me to try and be as passive as possible. Hmmmm. I'm noticing that most of you haven't had this same experience in this respect, so either I'm coming across to people as confused, or I'm approaching this issue at a completely different angle to most who are transgender.

Righty ho, for my sanity (& perhaps for anyone else out there who feels the same?) I'm going to try my level best (no pun intended) to sum myself up in a few sentence.  :laugh:

~            ~            ~

[/i]
"I was a boy and then a teen who didn't know or care enough about gender to realise that he didn't quite understand what being male actually meant. Therefore I've grown up being sure of my male identity, being ready to defend it...without realising that I'm not suited to that identity anyway. (Its a bit like noticing your laptop charger doesn't appear to be the right one for your laptop, but you continue using it anyway figuring that all laptop chargers have this issue). A female identity, though, seems alien as well. But with all things considered - my likes, my preferred body shape, my use of emotions, my presentation & wish to experience the world - I'm very much certain that female is faaaaar more suited to me than being male, and when I really let myself go, this is what I feel inside. And I base this inclination on 28 years worth of bizarre experiences, preferences, feelings, exploration and finally... similarities of other transgendered folk.

So now I am accepting of the fact that I should have been female, and have suddenly realised that its actually possible through medical intervention... but yet I'm still defensive of my current form and of being male, even though it blatantly isn't really me, and I'm actively pursuing HRT whilst being fully aware of the consequences. 

Why is that? Perhaps its because I've never felt affiliation to women. I've never been one of the girls and I've never understood women. Exactly in the same way that I've never understood other men and I've never felt truly one of them either. I genuinely feel like an outsider to both genders. People's rigid gender expressions scare me, I feel like my own internal gender has no power or validity. Therefore I have no sense of the "right" or "wrong" gender I should be. So maybe I'm just scared of the alternative - of taking on the female form and mindset, plus the whole monumental mind and life->-bleeped-<- that being trans usually is - and therefore try to find ways to get out of this having to make this decision, perhaps even subconsciously.

~ ~ ~

The NHS asked me what, if I could be anything, would I like to be? My honest answer - is I'd like to be what I feel I am inside: A person who fits femininity and femaleness,  and so needs to take on that form as the alternative all appears to be have been an illusion. However I'm a complete tomboy, so I'm not a binary. And just to thicken matters further... I am attracted to women and I care about my genitalia. But I realise now (& after talking to many men) that both still do not make me feel and identify as a cis male. My current form is a useful means to an end. Plus I cannot rely on the pleasures of sex and of relationships with women to "bolt me down" to my current form. Its not fair on them and its unsustainable for me in the long term. The external world isn't responsible for making me feel secure in my gender and identity as that to come from inside me. And inside, there is no drive to be male, other than to be male so I can date girls and get jobs without discrimination.

Naturally I'll be seeing if anyone responds to this thread, lol. Interestingly, being honest with myself some more: If posts were to suggest I'm not trans and not to transition, then I'd feel a deep need to defend that I AM trans and I WILL transition (to some degree or severity). However, if posts were to suggest that I must accept that I am indeed trans, etc, then as well as feeling a rush of positive energy, I'd also feel like I've failed in my mission to be a man and annoyed with myself for picking a life as difficult as a MTF's. Ultimately then, it seems I am sure but I also have many internal brakes and mental blocks, and perhaps people pick up on this. Ultimately though, I need to move forward and inviestigate HRT so the final conclusion can be made. Otherwise, it'll be....back to Level One all over again.


Thanks for reading :-) Biscuit?
There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
  •  

TessaMarie

Thank you for posting how you feel, Stella.

This sentence sent a few shivers down my spine:
Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on January 08, 2014, 06:37:51 PM
I was a boy and then a teen who didn't know or care enough about gender to realise that he didn't quite understand what being male actually meant. Therefore I've grown up being sure of my male identity, being ready to defend it...without realising that I'm not suited to that identity anyway.
Reading it felt like someone had just gone rummaging around in the darker recesses of my dusty brain, dragged out a little nugget of truth for which I had been searching for years without success, dusted it off, polished it up a bit & then presented me with the crystalised result of what they had found.

I seem to find myself in a very similar position to yourself regarding my gender identity:  Born male.  Emotionally female.  Feel a strong need for HRT without much (if any) desire for surgery.  Attracted to women.  Prefer presenting as male/tomboy/butch/etc..

I have been on HRT since June 2013, and yet am in no rush to present as a girly-girl, or even as female.  I do wear women's cut jeans and I got an androgenous hairstyle last Saturday.  That's about it. 

I am quite comfortable with where I am at the moment.  As time passes, I realise that it will become harder to present as male.  People who haven't seen me in a while are already beginning to fail to recognise me.  And yet even as my appearance gradually transitions from male towards female, my clothing is likely to remain as it is.  I wear what I find comfortable.

My personal situation does appear to be quite different to yours:  I am 16 years older than you.  I have been married for 12 years, and my wife seems to be staying for this journey.  I am living in Philadelphia, where we have the Mazzoni Centre willing to prescribe HRT on an informed consent basis, a strong LGBT community, and no gender discrimination tolerated at the city's largest employer (the city itself).  Reading about the experiences you & others are being subjected to by the UK NHS makes me glad I emigrated from Ireland years ago.

This:
Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on January 08, 2014, 06:37:51 PM
I've never been one of the girls and I've never understood women. Exactly in the same way that I've never understood other men and I've never felt truly one of them either. I genuinely feel like an outsider to both genders. People's rigid gender expressions scare me, I feel like my own internal gender has no power or validity. Therefore I have no sense of the "right" or "wrong" gender I should be.
For now, I am finding myself somewhere between the two binary genders.  Much as I have wished my lower parts to be different over the years, I have no desire to undergo surgery for anything.  Ideally, I would like to find myself in a position where I can choose on a daily basis which gender I am going to present to the world that day (yeah ... this may be more 'magic wand' thinking again ...).

I do not feel strongly that "I am a girl" ... the most was ever: "I want to be a girl", which is quite semantically different.  I have never felt a sense of belonging with either gender.  Always the outsider, the 'other'.  Taking HRT was partly an experiment to see if it would ease the pain I had been feeling for most of my life.  It has, &/but it is feminising me as well.  I am slowly coming to peace with this, but it is hard.  That part of me that has so staunchly defended my maleness against all thoughts of girliness throughout my life is still very much active.  It is only with difficulty that I am able to sidestep it.  I am nowhere near being able to leave that part of me behind just yet.  It is too strong.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on January 08, 2014, 06:37:51 PM
Ultimately though, I need to move forward and inviestigate HRT so the final conclusion can be made. Otherwise, it'll be....back to Level One all over again.
That is exactly where I needed to go.  My "Level One" included a trip to the ER as a result of self-medding.  Where I am now is better.  I am feeling much more at peace within myself since starting HRT.  The obsession & compulsion almost disappeared within days.  Emotionally:  It feels like, now that I am taking estrogen, my mind is finally going through the puberty it should have experienced when I was a teenager.  On testosterone it was only my body that matured.  My emotions remained stuck in pre-pubescent childhood.

There is very little of your post that doesn't seem to apply to me.  I'm not trying to say that you are right.  Maybe I just happen to be crazy in the same way that you are.  Who'd have thought I would find so much in common with an Englishwoman ?   ::)

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on January 08, 2014, 06:37:51 PM
Thanks for reading :-) Biscuit?
Don't mind if I do!  Hobnobs please.  Plain, mind - they're better for dunking in my Barry's tea  :)

I've read quite a few of your posts already.  The identification I feel is not just from this one post.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts & feelings.  I feel like slightly less of an alien when I read the words you are sharing from the home planet.

Bye for now,

Tessa
Gender Journey:    Male-towards-Female;    Destination Unknown
All shall be well.
And all shall be well.
And all manner of things shall be well.    (Julian of Norwich, c.1395)
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Stella Stanhope

Hello Tessa!
Seems like we're in our own minority in a minority, then :p

Wow, definitely seems to have been quite an emotive piece for you, as it was for me to type. I am glad its defined how you feel. It is a relief to realise that others can feel the same way, when how you feel might seem to be a complete fluke of nature. I read the odd post on this forum where I have to double check that the OP wasn't me, as  some posts are so spot-on with how I feel - that they could have been written by me! Its uncanny sometimes, isn't it!

QuoteReading it felt like someone had just gone rummaging around in the darker recesses of my dusty brain, dragged out a little nugget of truth for which I had been searching for years without success, dusted it off, polished it up a bit & then presented me with the crystalised result of what they had found.

Its VERY interesting that my feelings and experiences appears to tally so closer with your's! I wonder what this says about us, in relation to the why's and how's we have come to feel as we do. Also, for me personally, as you are on HRT and find it beneficial...its even further evidence that I'm barking up the right tree with regard to the action I need to take. Part of me feels excited, vindicated and hopeful when I read your post, and part of me feels scared, dismissive and thoroughly angry when I realise that I most likely am in the same boat as yourself.

Anywho, that's great that you're comfortable and being supported! I guess it helps that you still feel have a certain duty or care for your masculinity and male role, if that's the right way of putting it. May I ask, Are you on a low dose of HRT? And what was your deciding moment to take it? - When did you reach the point when you felt you had to explore HRT? I am intrigued as to how the HRT and general mental acceptance has made you feel more at home within yourself. It must be quite liberating to be increasingly able to reflect your non binary nature in your presentation. :)

Quotet feels like, now that I am taking estrogen, my mind is finally going through the puberty it should have experienced when I was a teenager.  On testosterone it was only my body that matured.  My emotions remained stuck in pre-pubescent childhood.

Also, that is VERY interesting. With me - my body has very slowly masculinised to the point where at 28 - classic adult male fat distribution has only just begun ( Grrrrr, this has really annoyed me). With my emotions, I've felt that the expression of them has increasingly been curtailed since puberty, so its very hard to formulate an emotional response. Compounding that - it feels natural to respond to life emotionally with the greater range of female than the narrower range of male and through the openness and expressiveness that female faces are capable of.

I feel emotionally censored, and despite the fact that not being able cry properly or feel deeply definitely has its perks (as I feel more resilient to stress), I still feel I can't express myself properly internally, and externally I can't express it either. Yet in my core, the expression and drive is still there, despite the benefits.

Logically speaking, I think its potentially harmful to want to feel more deeply and potentially more emotionally, as increasingly we live in a world where being tough, uncompromising, "masculine" and thick-skinned is expected, appreciated and ultimately is more beneficial. But annoyingly, it just doesn't feel like me, and I feel like my freedom of emotion has been stolen from me.

QuoteReading about the experiences you & others are being subjected to by the UK NHS makes me glad I emigrated from Ireland years ago.

Its not so much that the NHS is terrible or generally rubbish, the NHS is actually amazing - it offer free treatments, often state-of-the-art by professionals. With all the troubles in the world and the range of serious physical diseases, the NHS still manages to offer a service whereby it treats individuals who suffer from very personal conditions such as GID etc. The trouble with the NHS regarding waiting lists & such is down to the service being stretched beyond its means, and the trouble with having to pass outdated criteria & conform to stereotypes is down to current social thinking. The fact that there's still no scientific evidence to to overwhelmingly convince the skeptics (which could be 99% of the public) to suggest that transexualism isn't just a massive trick of the mind.   So with all those pressures, the non-suicidal and binary trans* patients (like myself) tend to get filed under the "not now" category.

Haha! Good to see there's a fellow feminine eccentric somewhere else in the world at least! Maybe we're crazy...with perfect sanity!

I'm at the stage whereby my internal femininity and increasingly physical masculinity have just passed each other going in different directions. So, I've got to act fast if I want to preserve some form of androgynous form to build on should I want to properly feminise.I loose one androgynous feature roughly every 6 months now. 2012 was my hair and skin masculinising and 2013 was male fat distribution increase and I think my facial stubble thickened. However....like you, there's still residual male pride and reservation over permanently removing facial hair and the prospect of gaining weaker muscles, potentially eradicated sex drive and and such when on HRT. Society likes the way I'm developing, the onset of MPB, the coarseness of skin and almost eradication of androgyny has been well received. I abhor every bit of it. I increasingly hate society for rewarding me for being what I don't want to be, and I increasingly get annoyed with myself for conforming to it, because their approval makes me feel wanted & relevant.

Got a bit heavy at the end, indeed! By Hobnobs! Excellent choice! I prefer mine with some frothy coffee of some sort, or Earl Grey (with milk as I like to vandalise fine tea).
:)




There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
  •  

TessaMarie

#4
Hi Stella,

I agree that the NHS is vastly better than anything available in Ireland.  Over here in the US, I suspect the quality of health care is much better than most other places if one has decent health insurance (fortunately my wife very good health insurance).  When I referred negatively to the NHS, I was specifically responding to the insanely cruel demand that transfolk spend a full year in RLE BEFORE being allowed take any HRT.  If that had been a requirement for me to get HRT, I would have either {a} self-medded, {b} killed myself, or most likely {c} killed myself by self-medding.  I would consider suicide preferable to walking around my neighbourhood in women's clothing while very obviously male.  Mind you, there is a strong possibility that doing that would effectively be 'suicide by proxy'.  (I don't live anywhere near Philly's gaybourhood.)

I have no problem answering whatever questions you want to ask.  But maybe we should take that to private messaging.  It might get a little too personal for a public forum viewable by anyone.

I'm glad to read that you find something of my experience might be useful to you  :)

Tessa

PS:    I don't just adulterate tea with milk, I add sugar too.  As the missus likes to remind me: I need a lot of sweetening.
Gender Journey:    Male-towards-Female;    Destination Unknown
All shall be well.
And all shall be well.
And all manner of things shall be well.    (Julian of Norwich, c.1395)
  •  

Stella Stanhope

Hellooo there!
I shall message ye, then. :)

Ahh yes, the infamous Real Life Test. I've noticed that most of the stages a transperson has to go through in their journey is just bullsh*t. The whole journey is farcial. Dysphoria should be treated by hormones and if the patient wants surgery then that's what eventually is provided. The end.

All the milestones and hoops to jump through, people to tell, name changes, marker changes all add a needlessly massive layer of complexity and difficulty to the whole endeavour. Transition and hormones should be about your body and yourself. It should involve no other hoops to jump through other than proving you are sane, not a criminal, are health-conscious and are aware of all the risks.

~                    ~                     ~

I have a special place in my dungeon of hate for the RLT.
The idea behind the concept of the RLT makes sense; "To understand the consequences of what you want, you must be put into that role first before changing your body".
But this makes sense only in a child's black and white world, where there are no other considerations.

The RLT is also supposed to hive a cis male the idea of what its like to be a woman, so they can experience what other cis woman on the planet experience. Once again, a clever idea thought up by naive people. I am amazed that intelligent doctors can also have the logic and common-sense of six year-olds. In the real-world, RLT is stupid. And why?...

Because there's a MASSIVE difference between a woman who's always been a woman and looks like one, and a man effectively dressed up as a woman. So how, in God's name can the pre-HRT transperson be expected to experience anything like what a cis woman might experience during her day. It's insane. Congratulations medical profession, you've taken a male socialised and physically masculinised person and put them into a situation of humiliation and danger in order to prove a point that doesn't exist. Cis woman have millions of combinations of experiences and the person doing the RLT won't be seen as being a woman anyway... so. There is no point. Adult transpeople are not children, and therefore should be given the respect and responsibility of making their own decision. If the transperson is themselves naive, hasn't thought it all through finds when on HRT that being the opposite sex its totally not what they expected - then that's there own problem. That's adult responsibility in action right there. When doctors plan to give an obese person an organ transplant, they don't first ask the obese person to do an RLT involving eating salads 24/7 to "prove" they understand the consequences and expectations of receiving a new organ. Nope, the doctors perform the operation and if the obese person continues eating pies and dies, then that's it. That's adult responsibility and freedom and accepting the consequences, in action.

~                    ~                     ~

Changing gender markers and name in order to claim HRT is another potential requirement that I have a special place in my anger for. Once again a requirement to change everything whilst you still look like a man. So you get to be in the hilarious situation of introducing yourself as a pretty name who's female when you're (according to cis people) obviously a dude in drag. An argument I heard supporting RLT and "standing up for being trans" being loud-and-proud, etc., is that the more visible we are the more accepted we'll become in the near future. Once again, an intelligent concept if it were coming from a smart 6 year old with no grasp of real adult life.
A man in a skirt with stubble is never going to be accepted by cis people as a positive & valid occurrence, its also personally humiliating for the transperson (as they themselves don't want to look like a dude with stubble), so it actually damages the transperson and gives a negative and stereotypical image of transpeople to the population. Thus setting our whole movement back, AGAIN.

All of the above requirements of why there are thousands of non-passing pre HRT transpeople (especially MTFs) loosing their jobs and having social scorn heaped upon them, because their doctors told them to change their names, markers and to turn up to work in make-up and skirts whilst they still look male. Of course that's going to turn out well, isn't it. And the sad thing is that so many are willing to go through with the requirements out of desperation and become blinkered to the reality of what will happen.
I'm fed up and upset (for the transexuals involved) to be reading story after story about people who've gotten into ever more social and financial trouble because they're following the requirements to the letter and are therefore now sitting ducks for discrimination.

~                    ~                     ~

In the case of MTFs and females, we live in a time where women have more social freedom to transgress gender norms and expectations. Alot of my straight cis girlfriends (when I was presenting as a cisnormative straight male whilst dating them) were petite, pretty and attracted to guys, but liked to wear male clothes, male deodorant and drink pint after pint of beer. Plus many women have traditionally male names. And why? Because they were secure enough as woman but liked to play with convention and liked to explore their own fluid expression. THAT is how a massive majority of Westernised woman are today. So the very idea of needing to experience the stereotypical stuff in order to appreciate your own trans-ness is complete bullsh*t.

A transwoman has just as much right to wear men's Saville row suits, call herself George and work as a ball-breaking ad-executive as much as a cis-female does. Thus current RLT is based on stereotypes and out-dated models of the female role and its presentation. And because cis woman have this freedom, then the RLT of a transwoman should be about just presenting however they damn well like so long as they personally understand the gravitas and consequences of what they are doing, like a proper adult.  The REAL issues a pre-hormone transexual needs to be taught is about how their body might respon on hormones - negatives and positives, and therefore how these might impact upon on their interaction with society. The actual requirements should be medical ones such as - don't smoke 50 industrial-strength ->-bleeped-<-s a day, etc.

....Ok, and now I'm calm :p









There are no more barriers to cross... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis... I gain no deeper knowledge of myself. No new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. This confession has meant nothing.

When you find yourself hopelessly stuck between the floors of gender - you make yourself at home in the lift.
  •  

LordKAT

I know a real life lady named George. What's in a name afterall.
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