Quote from: HughE on February 10, 2014, 06:40:15 AM
No, the "eunuchoid" body type I've described is the result of having below normal male levels of testosterone during childhood and puberty, and is something that's commonly seen in intersex conditions such as Klinefelter's syndrome or Kallman's syndrome. The low testosterone alters the way your bones and muscles grow, so you end up with a build more like a woman's than a man's. I'm one of the ones affected btw. Although I've got normal male genitals and don't seem to have any of the usual causes of intersex, nonetheless I have (or at least had until I started taking hormones a couple of years ago) all the things mentioned in that list. If you look at photos of me when I was younger, my body shape is much more like that of the female members of my family than the male ones.
I'm not aware of any formal scientific studies looking at pre-HRT body structure in trans women, but going on what I've seen and been told, trans women in general seem to have a much higher incidence of having a "eunuchoid" (or more female -typical) body structure than is the case for the cis male population.
Although no one seems to have done the research on trans women, there are several studies of trans men showing that they have much higher rates of PCOS (an endocrine disorder associated with abnormally high androgen levels) than cis women, and that they tend to have a more male typical build too (e.g. see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9101031?dopt=Abstract).
Obviously, if there are often detectable hormonal and physical differences between trans people and the cis population then it proves that transness isn't a purely psychological condition at all, there's an actual physical basis for it.
Eunuchoid proportions are not an intersex condition. :S Klinefelter's is a rare chromosomal abnormality and only a very teeny portion of the trans population has it. It's not on a spectrum, ya either have it or you don't. Eunuchoid proportions are bc of a long pubertal growth window due to low estrogen. The reason that has anything to do with low T is because low T means lower estrogen... but so does just simply being skinny (an ectomorph) because T is converted to E in fat cells. So if you are naturally skinny, you will also probably have sort of eunuchoid (skeletal) proportions, no matter what your T level is.
None of this has anything to do with intersex conditions except in the presence of a chromosomal abnormality. Looking feminine is not an intersex condition, but also, eunuchoid (skeletal) proportions are actually the opposite of feminine. Women's growth plates fuse very early because of estrogen so they have proportionately shorter legs and arms.. eunuchoid limbs fuse very late and are long. Long limbs, long faces, big jaws, big hands, big feet, big everything. XXY people look feminine only because they have severely low T. Basically, they look unmasculine. It's hard to call it feminine either though. They are not usually skinny though. Ectomorphs OTOH, who are skinny, do look especially masculine.
Not that MTFs typically have eunuchoid shapes. Cuz eunuchoid shapes also have low masculinization and lots of bodyfat. Again, eunuchoid people are tall because they have low T (which means low E) as per the name, which makes a more distinct shape. But you can be tall from having low bodyfat as well, and have high T and low E. And afaik this is the case for most tall MTFs.
So, just trying to reiterate that there is not a spectrum from tall male to XXY. They are unrelated. XXY is all or nothing and very few MTFs are XXY and very few MTFs are intersex. Low T is also never a form of intersex when it doesn't interfere with genital development or fertility. Intersex is a term that refers to a specific type of physical disorder, it's not just an adjective. It only takes a little T during development to significantly masculinize a brain. Most males need to be severely insensitive to androgens, or severely underexposed, to reliably develop a female gender and sexual identity. Most MTFs do not fit the same model and were sufficiently exposed to T to masculinize their brain and you can see that in MTF sexuality for example which is overwhelmingly gynephilic.
Umm.. now to be fair, I'm sure if you did a complete statistical study, trans people would have a higher incidence of intersex condition than the general population. But that doesn't say much about the average trans person. It just means that the people who do have intersex conditions are much more likely to transition than the general population (though you can't take that out of context either... the vast majority of intersex people do not reassign their gender and never express an interest to do so.)
I'm sorry this was so longwinded, I'm just frustrated with this uncomfortable attachment to IS issues from the trans community. The IS community is overall fairly hostile towards the trans community and ya can't blame them. If you have symptoms of an IS condition, then that is perfectly reasonable... you should definitely get tested and try to get your concerns addressed. But don't try to turn the trans community into an extension of the IS spectrum. Trans people already have more and better legal and medical support/awareness/documentation/representation than IS people so there is nothing to gain by saying trans people are some form of IS. It's just needlessly burying issues (infant genital surgery/mutilation and forced assignments, mismanagement and poor awareness of unique health concerns) that already desperately struggle for good advocacy.
