Jet Injectors

[Arilikewoah]

Hey everyone!

So, I just this week made my first appointment for gender therapy for the 13th of January. If everything goes according to plan, I can be on T within the next five months.
However, cost is an issue, because the insurance I'm on doesn't even cover things like couples' counseling (Christian Brothers, if anyone has experience with them). With that in mind, I've been looking into different methods of administering T, and unsurprisingly injectable T is about 10 times less expensive than transdermal options. I have a serious phobia of needles, to the point where, even now at 18 I sit on my mother's lap at the doctor's office. Because of this, I have been looking into pain-free options of injection methods, or methods without needles that still use injectable meds.
In my searching, I have come across Jet Injectors, such as the PharmaJet, and am curious if any of you have experience with them, if they are preferable to needles for guys like me, and if they can even be used with T?

Thanks in advance!

[Cindy]

I'm not sure and for obvious reasons have never injected T, but I believe the T injection is quite 'thick' and has to be intramuscular which would make jets impracticable.

[Sir Wafflinton]

Seconded what Cindy says, also, although they may seem daunting, learning to inject is really easy. That means, you can go to the Dr for the first few shots, and believe me you get desensitized to the idea of injections pretty quickly. The Dr can teach your mother how to do the shots and then they can be done at home by your mother.

BTW, the actual physical damage from having a small gauge needle in you is very small. If your T shot is done right you shouldn't be able to tell after 30 mins of it going in that you had a shot at all. I did my first self-administered shot the day before yesterday, and I know there is quite a big psychological barrier but even with no experience it went off without a hitch and apart from the tiniest pricking sensation when it broke the skin (to the extent that if I hadn't have been concentrating on it I would never have noticed) it was completely pain-free.

That being said, I know a guy who still gets his doc to do his shot every 3 months because he can't do them himself. That is completely fine too. But please believe me, after every shot the next one is less of a big deal. If the thought of having the first one at the doctor's is so bad then you could take something like medication that makes you sleepy so you stay calmer throughout the whole thing. Just split into tiny little baby steps and don't feel any pressure to rush yourself. Before you know it you will be 6 months on T (and on your 13th shot) and you won't even remember why this seemed like such a big deal at the time.

[Arilikewoah]

I really appreciate they help, thanks!

Sir Wafflington: The problem with getting other people to do it for me is that I'm away at school. I mean, realistically I'm sure I could ask the nurses here on campus, but I see that as a last resort. May I ask what gauge needle you used?

[overdrive]

I read on an FTM blog a while ago about a transguy using Testopel. He had started on injections but hat some issues with them, dont recall if it was cost, needle phobia or what, but he switched to Testopel with no issues and was happy with that method claiming no changes vs injectable T. I did some very brief reading on this after I read his blog out of curiosity, but thats about it as I inject my T and have no prob doing so. But, you may want to look into this and see if its a better option for you or not.

http://www.testopel.com/

[aleon515]

I am personally VERY against the macho philosophy. As a matter of fact, I think cismen would have the same issues with needles (and some of them do, if you look around). I do not think it is helpful to use the kinds of devices that some cis men have used to deal with situations as I think they are essentially unhelpful and negative.

There are a few options: Any of which are good.

1. I have heard of a video on youtube which (it might be a trans woman) but she shows how to do this bouncing technique with the needle. I have heard some people find this helpful. You can look for "painless injection" or getting over fear of needles".

2. Find someone else to do the injection (fellow transguy, nurse where you get the T, neighborhood nurse or family member).

3. Look into subQ. Some people find that the shorter thinner needle isn't quite as daunting. It does still sting though.
Not all or even most doctors know about this.

4. You could go on compounded cream (or Androgel). Androgel is very pricey but the compounded cream is less so (seems only to be an option in the US, but then again we are most likely to have to pay for it out of pocket). Price is still higher than injectables. I've heard a range of $25- $150/month.  I really like the t-cream. Might be slower but after awhile it is kind of moot. 



--Jay

[Declan.]

I looked up PharmaJet. To be honest, that looks much more uncomfortable than a needle, and I think oil-based medications like testosterone are probably too thick.

I have a needle phobia too and I'm still not used to it eight months in. Subcutaneous feels too much like a shot to me; so does going slow, etc. It's the "shot feeling" I don't care for, not the pain. I did try the "bouncing method" and that was much, much worse - it took longer and made me much more aware of the needle than I am when it's just jabbed in as fast as possible and taken out right away. Done that way, it hurts more, but it's not a pinching/sharp/nasty needle feeling. Feels more like getting snapped by a rubber band than anything. It's the only way that works for me without unnerving me to the point where I'll put it off. Don't know if that helps you any.

[aleon515]

I think that the idea that T is too thick is probably right. Btw, the bounce technique is not a slow technique (or fast) just to fool yourself into giving yourself into giving yourself a shot kind of.
SubQ isn't necessarily less stingy, the idea is that the needle is very thin and not into a muscle. Sometimes is easier to give a shot that isn't as deep.

--Jay

[Cindy]

Moderation: I am removing an early post which I think is unhelpful.


I bleed people on a daily basis and needle phobia is very real for many people. It does not discriminate in anyway at all!!!!

To be honest in my experience fer of needles is more common than lack of fear, a bit like dentists!

One thing I have found is that people who end up having to be bled or inject regularly do get use to it with time.

Try some of the relaxation techniques that are common on the internet. It is a matter of relaxing and basically getting into a mind set where you don't even think of the needle any longer.

It will happen, try not to worry about it, that reinforces the fear.

Cindy

[aleon515]

Note: Thanks Cindy. I modified my post accordingly.

--Jay

[Sir Wafflinton]

I use a 23g needle for injecting and a 19g for drawing. I have heard of guys using smaller though.

If the campus nurse is free (I wouldn't know) then they might get a bit sick of seeing you but it wouldn't be too much of an issue as giving a shot only takes 5 minutes and you don't have to get them that often.

[Declan.]

I use a 23g needle for injecting and a 19g for drawing. I have heard of guys using smaller though.

If the campus nurse is free (I wouldn't know) then they might get a bit sick of seeing you but it wouldn't be too much of an issue as giving a shot only takes 5 minutes and you don't have to get them that often.

I think I use a 22g 2" needle. I used a 25" last time and it was terrible... way too pinchy for me. It's the pinching feeling I hate about shots.

[Sir Wafflinton]

It's the pinching feeling I hate about shots.

I have never got a pinching feeling from having a shot so I wouldn't know (nor have I ever used a 25g for that matter). What injection method are you using? I have heard most guys take the "grab a hunk of leg flesh and inject" approach (I don't know if it has an actual medical name) which was actually suggested when I first started. I'd recommend giving the Z track method a go if you haven't already, it is starting to be used more and more for standard IM delivery and it is meant to be less painful.

[Declan.]

I have never got a pinching feeling from having a shot so I wouldn't know (nor have I ever used a 25g for that matter). What injection method are you using? I have heard most guys take the "grab a hunk of leg flesh and inject" approach (I don't know if it has an actual medical name) which was actually suggested when I first started. I'd recommend giving the Z track method a go if you haven't already, it is starting to be used more and more for standard IM delivery and it is meant to be less painful.

Really? Maybe I'm not using the right word then. "Pinchy" is all I can think of to describe it. I don't do the "grab the chunk of flesh" technique - my partner spreads it out with his palm, between his index finger and thumb. Hurts less IMO. What's the Z track method?

[Sir Wafflinton]

The way I was first taught to inject does confuse me a little. The nurse was a diabetes specialist so I just brushed it off (if you are doing subq insulin it makes sense that you'd want to give yourself lots of fat to inject into haha) but I have seen quite a few people do their shots like that so their must be a medical reason for it.

My shots feel just like a pinprick, not even a sensation you'd notice in a different situation. That's not to say I haven't had bad ones before but they usually hurt after not during.

Z track is where the skin is pulled taught at the injection site and released after the injection is given. This means the needle's track is disjointed so medication can't leak out completely or into subcutaneous fat. If you are pulling the skin and fat away it means you don't have to go through as much stuff to get to the muscle which is a bonus.

It is easiest to explain with a diagram, and info and tutorials are all over the internet so I'm sure you'll be able to find what you want if you just google z track IM or something

[Declan.]

The way I was first taught to inject does confuse me a little. The nurse was a diabetes specialist so I just brushed it off (if you are doing subq insulin it makes sense that you'd want to give yourself lots of fat to inject into haha) but I have seen quite a few people do their shots like that so their must be a medical reason for it.

My shots feel just like a pinprick, not even a sensation you'd notice in a different situation. That's not to say I haven't had bad ones before but they usually hurt after not during.

Z track is where the skin is pulled taught at the injection site and released after the injection is given. This means the needle's track is disjointed so medication can't leak out completely or into subcutaneous fat. If you are pulling the skin and fat away it means you don't have to go through as much stuff to get to the muscle which is a bonus.

It is easiest to explain with a diagram, and info and tutorials are all over the internet so I'm sure you'll be able to find what you want if you just google z track IM or something

Ah, yeah, that's what we do. You explained it well. It's much less painful than any other method, IMO.

[Arilikewoah]

Thank you all so much for all the help! I agree, though, it's the pinchy feeling that freaks me out. I've got two tattoos, and am stretching my ears. In short, pain isn't too much of an issue for me. I guess the issue is the idea of a longer needle going deep.

I've still got a while to go before anything with starting T is even a remote reality (at least 3-5 more months), but this has all given me something to think about.

I am personally VERY against the macho philosophy. As a matter of fact, I think cismen would have the same issues with needles (and some of them do, if you look around). I do not think it is helpful to use the kinds of devices that some cis men have used to deal with situations as I think they are essentially unhelpful and negative.

There are a few options: Any of which are good.

1. I have heard of a video on youtube which (it might be a trans woman) but she shows how to do this bouncing technique with the needle. I have heard some people find this helpful. You can look for "painless injection" or getting over fear of needles".

2. Find someone else to do the injection (fellow transguy, nurse where you get the T, neighborhood nurse or family member).

3. Look into subQ. Some people find that the shorter thinner needle isn't quite as daunting. It does still sting though.
Not all or even most doctors know about this.

4. You could go on compounded cream (or Androgel). Androgel is very pricey but the compounded cream is less so (seems only to be an option in the US, but then again we are most likely to have to pay for it out of pocket). Price is still higher than injectables. I've heard a range of $25- $150/month.  I really like the t-cream. Might be slower but after awhile it is kind of moot. 



--Jay

I have been looking into topical applications of T, and the main problem is cost. I'll look some more into compounding, though it seems that because of the cost it's unlikely to be a viable option. Thanks!

I think I use a 22g 2" needle. I used a 25" last time and it was terrible... way too pinchy for me. It's the pinching feeling I hate about shots.

I have a friend a couple states away from me who said he uses a 27 gauge now. He said it takes much longer, but that there is virtually no pain. Does anybody have experience with a needle that thin?

[Declan.]

I have a friend a couple states away from me who said he uses a 27 gauge now. He said it takes much longer, but that there is virtually no pain. Does anybody have experience with a needle that thin?

Yeah, once. It wasn't painful, but felt really pinchy, scratchy, and nasty. The thicker needles (I use a 22, like I said, but have used anything from an 18 to a 21) feel more like something is hitting you (provided you do it fast) as opposed to piercing your skin. It just doesn't feel like a shot at all to me (bee sting would be a better analogy, but without the burning and itching) which is why I don't really care. Doesn't make sense for more pain to be an easier experience, I guess, but that's a phobia for you, lol.

If I were you, I'd go with a 22-23. It's much faster. The 25 took a little while. 27 would be torture with oil this thick. Also, the longer it's in and the more pressure you have to use to force the oil through the needle, the more the needle will wiggle around, which feels nasty.

[overdrive]

Personally I prefer 23 or 25 for injecting and they don't pinch. I'll draw with 23 or larger.

One thing I wanted to mention is the brand if needles will make a difference as they aren't all as sharp. BD, Nipro and Terumo are all good. I've tried several others that aren't nearly as sharp and think they do pinch so keep an eye on that as well.

[Declan.]

Personally I prefer 23 or 25 for injecting and they don't pinch. I'll draw with 23 or larger.

One thing I wanted to mention is the brand if needles will make a difference as they aren't all as sharp. BD, Nipro and Terumo are all good. I've tried several others that aren't nearly as sharp and think they do pinch so keep an eye on that as well.

Hadn't heard that before. I use Luer Lock. Is that any good?