Susan's Place Logo

News:

Based on internal web log processing I show 3,417,511 Users made 5,324,115 Visits Accounting for 199,729,420 pageviews and 8.954.49 TB of data transfer for 2017, all on a little over $2,000 per month.

Help support this website by Donating or Subscribing! (Updated)

Main Menu

question about "the left wing"

Started by kariann330, January 11, 2014, 12:46:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Colleen♡Callie

Quote from: Shantel on March 03, 2014, 11:13:27 AM
Another question about the Left Wing why the disparity while so self-righteous?



To be fair, the parties were realigned much later in American history and during those amendments listed, the Republicans were considered the more liberal party. 

The ideologies of the democratic party back then doesn't match that of the democratic party today, and the same goes for the republican party.  I've heard a lot of history professors summarize it as says they were basically flipped, but I tend to think that is an overly simplistic way of looking at it. 
"Tell my tale to those who ask.  Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly.  The rest is silence." - Dinobot



  •  

michelle

Then why did the President Bush of the United States send State National Guard troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.    How does this law apply to President Roosevelt nationalizing the States National Guard Units and sending over seas to fight in World War II?     President Wilson also nationalized the National Guard and sent them over to fight in World War I.   Presidents  Harry Truman and Eisenhower  sent the states National Guards over to fight in the Korean War.

Just what does the Dick Act of 1902 have to do with anything?   The Dick Act of 1902 has not been used by the courts to invalidate the existing gun control laws.     The United States Congress passed the Dick Act of 1902 and the United States Congress and the President can repeal this law since it is not a part of our Constitution it does not require and states voting to invalid it.   Any law can be repealed by Congress and the President of the United States.

Ex post facto only applies to criminalizing activities after the fact.    Repealing the Dick Act of 1902 would not criminalize any previous activities.   And from the fact that since World War I the President of the United States has had the power to Nationalize every States' National Guard and send them over seas to fight in both declared and undeclared wars is seems that a good part of the Dick Act of 1902 is dead.

Respect, and not, guns create a polite society.   Ownership of a gun, does not give anyone the right to kill anyone, just because they are afraid.   The right to own a gun, means you the responsibility to see that it is used legally, and also the responsibility that it is not used to kill anyone senselessly.

And yes privately run militias are dangerous to a democracy.
Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
  •  

skin

Quote from: Shantel on March 03, 2014, 11:13:27 AM
Another question about the Left Wing why the disparity while so self-righteous?



To expand on what Colleen said, the Republicans were the Left Wing at the time of those votes, so there is absolutely no disparity if you are addressing the "left wing."  In fact, in the era of Teddy Roosevelt, the Progressive Party split off from the Republican party. It wasn't until the New Deal that the Democratic Party became more liberal than the Republican Party.  Beyond that, your picture is wrong anyway - the 15th amendment did not have 100% Republican support, though the 0% democratic support is correct.
"Choosing to be true to one's self — despite challenges that may come with the journey — is an integral part of realizing not just one's own potential, but of realizing the true nature of our collective human spirit. This spirit is what makes us who we are, and by following that spirit as it manifests outwardly, and inwardly, you are benefiting us all." -Andrew WK
  •  

michelle

The Democratic Party stopped being the party of segregation in the 1960s and 1970s when it became the party of equal rights and opened itself up to membership of all ethnic groups.    The Segregationalist Democrats quit the Democratic Party and joined the Republican Party creating great divisions within the Republican Party and many of the conflicts that are dividing that party today.   

Equating the voting record of the political parties for the passing of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the passing of Obama Care is utterly ridiculous.  It is broadening the rights protected by these Amendments that gives members of every single citizen of the United States their civil rights except for Native Americans who were put in a special category, and they had to have their civil rights granted to them  under separate legislation and also these Amendments only guaranteed women their civil rights after the they were given the right to vote by the 19th Amendment.

It is these Amendments to the Constitution that will guarantee the civil rights of the GLBTQ community once the courts accept the fact it is illegal to discriminate against anyone for whom they are.

The Affordable Care Act is protecting the peoples rights to health by limiting and regulating the control insurance companies have over our health care because we pay for our healthcare through private insurance companies.   Medicare and Medicaid coverage is even provided through private insurance companies.   In the state of Florida's Managed Medicaid Program all of the individuals on Medicaid have to chose from a private insurance company plan.  This year it is being applied to all of the Medicaid recipients in Florida.   Someday the Affordable Care Act may be used to insure that all members of the GLBTQ community have the rights to have their healthcare needs covered.

I am on Medicare through Florida Welcare which is a privately run health insurance company.

The Federal government is not controlling all health insurance in the United States.   The Federal Government only sets the standards of healthcare and the minimum coverage for all health insurance coverage.

The left does not lay claim to self righteousness, the right does.    The left lays claim to diversity,  and there is not any unified system of thought on the left.

  Take it from an old lefty when I say that the left of the 20th Century is dead today, for the most part,  however the right of the 19th century is a live and well.   When it comes to government control of property hardly anyone on the left believes in it today, because it is pointless  in the world dominated by world wide public stock companies which have sold their stock on the world market.   This stock is held by individuals and maybe even some countries around the world.    The Chinese Communist party has evolved into the old traditional Chinese bureaucracy, and politburo is just a committee that has replaced the Emperor of China, who thought the wealth of China belonged to him or her.  This communist party  does not have as much power as it thinks it has.  Think of all of the crappy products the government run companies have exported around the world.   The communist parties of Cuba and North Korea are a joke.   So what's left for the left:   equal rights for all,  climate change,  healthcare for all,  women's rights to make their own healthcare decisions,  environmental protection,   the earth revolves around the sun,  the theory of evolution,  the end of a patrilinical domination,  the United States is the government of the people and not the government of the corporations or businesses.   Why isn't the right for all of these?
Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
  •  

amZo

Not true.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act passed the House with 80% of the GOP vote, compared with support from only 61% of Democrats. In the Senate, 82% of Republicans voted for it; only 69% of Democrats did. When the Voting Rights Act passed one year later, Republicans again outpaced the Democrats.

BTW, the 20th century may be officially in the history books, but it's alive and well in Russia and Ukraine today.
  •  

Shantel

Quote from: skin on March 03, 2014, 11:50:27 PM
To expand on what Colleen said, the Republicans were the Left Wing at the time of those votes, so there is absolutely no disparity if you are addressing the "left wing."  In fact, in the era of Teddy Roosevelt, the Progressive Party split off from the Republican party. It wasn't until the New Deal that the Democratic Party became more liberal than the Republican Party.  Beyond that, your picture is wrong anyway - the 15th amendment did not have 100% Republican support, though the 0% democratic support is correct.

Yeah, I pm'ed Nikko and said some leftie would spin it, you're all so predictable!  :D :laugh:
  •  

Hideyoshi

Quote from: Shantel on March 03, 2014, 11:13:27 AM
Another question about the Left Wing why the disparity while so self-righteous?



Disingenuous.  It is well known that the parties switched ideologies. 

I'm at work on my phone or I'd give you a few links explaining that, but really you just need to look at the people making the votes, not the semantics.

Conservatives voted against slavery abolition
Conservatives voted against interracial marriage
Conservatives voted against desegregation
Conservatives vote against voting rights
Conservatives vote against gay marriage
Conservatives vote against anti discrimination laws

I've said it before and I'll be GLAD to repeat it

Any transgendered person who votes conservative is beyond mistaken.  It's one of the deepest forms of cognitive dissonance of which I know.

  •  

Shantel

Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 04, 2014, 12:32:23 PM
Disingenuous.  It is well known that the parties switched ideologies. 


Oh please, save it! The liberal disinformation machine has been turning out tripe for years knowing that if it's repeated often enough it becomes believable. I'm not a Republican but an independent fiscal conservative and responsible social advocate, I've been around a long time and watched this building over the years until the day is close at hand where we shall see a societal meltdown created intentionally by those who would use disinformation to create division, this will signify the demise of a once great country that no-one, not even the armies of the world can save.
  •  

amZo

QuoteAny transgendered person who votes conservative is beyond mistaken.  It's one of the deepest forms of cognitive dissonance of which I know.

I pay my own way, I can't afford to vote liberal.
  •  

Shantel

Quote from: michelle on March 02, 2014, 04:27:42 PM
Respect, and not guns, create a polite society.    Respect does not come from the barrel of a gun, death, fear, vengeance,  and misery come from the barrel of a gun.    In a society that is not based upon the respect for the life of every person in that society,  guns create chaos, destruction, and death.   Protecting yourself with a gun does not give anyone the right to kill every individual that you fear.   We don't change politics in the United States with the bullet, we change it with the ballot.   When you are denied your ballot, you go to the courts.


Uh-huh, tell that to these folks!

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9RABZq5IoaQ?feature=player_embedded
  •  

amZo

Quote from: Shantel on March 04, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
Uh-huh, tell that to these folks!

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9RABZq5IoaQ?feature=player_embedded

I guess you and I aren't alone is suffering extreme cognitive dissonance.  :D

Ya know, when people start speaking this way, that somehow we're not 'right' as they determine it, I feel I'm about to be told "yor kind aint welcome 'round here".

(No offense Hideyoshi  ;) )
  •  

Hideyoshi

Quote from: Nikko on March 04, 2014, 01:05:14 PM
I pay my own way, I can't afford to vote liberal.

Which implies that I somehow don't pay my own way?

Or that my mom doesn't?  Or my fiance doesn't?

Do I not pay my own way because I got healthcare through the ACA?  I got subsidies, yes.  I guess I don't pay my own way if I get public assistance to help pay for healthcare.  Just like how you don't pay your own way when you drive on roads paid for with tax dollars, eat food and take drugs regulated by the FDA, and store your money in banks backed by the FDIC.  You don't pay your own way as much as you'd like to believe, because you have this entire ->-bleeped-<-ing society around you that supports your every facet of life. 

So you can't afford to vote liberal... must be a strange job you have to be on the streets if a liberal is in office. 

You can't afford to vote liberal, but you can afford to vote for someone who votes against your rights, and wholeheartedly rejects your identity.  If not yours specifically, they vote against the rights and opportunities of people who are in the same social position as yourself (LGBT)
  •  

amZo

If you're on ACA subsidies, then I'm helping pay your way. It's not my desire to do so.

I pay for my share of the roads, etc. I'll pay more into SS than I'll ever get back, etc. I pay Medicaid and unemployment insurance that I've never and never will use. No, I pay much more than just my way thru life.



  •  

Hideyoshi

Quote from: Nikko on March 04, 2014, 02:25:34 PM
If you're on ACA subsidies, then I'm helping pay your way. It's not my desire to do so.

I pay for my share of the roads, etc. I'll pay more into SS than I'll ever get back, etc. I pay Medicaid and unemployment insurance that I've never and never will use. No, I pay much more than just my way thru life.

Because you're part of a society.  If you don't like it, try the Congo, where there's no government or taxes and everybody's so free to do whatever they want.

edit: I read your post again.  You seem rather confident in your financial security.  Wouldn't it be ironic (I don't wish this upon you) if you lost your job because of an unforeseen accident or illness, and then required public aid or would die?  Would you refuse public assistance at that point to remain consistent in your ideology? 
  •  

skin

Quote from: Shantel on March 04, 2014, 10:54:24 AM
Yeah, I pm'ed Nikko and said some leftie would spin it, you're all so predictable!  :D :laugh:

That's not spin, it's a well-established truth.  But if you continue on insisting that the Republican Party was always a conservative party, I would love to hear you try and spin the actions of the party in the late 19th/early 20th century as anything but liberal  :laugh:
"Choosing to be true to one's self — despite challenges that may come with the journey — is an integral part of realizing not just one's own potential, but of realizing the true nature of our collective human spirit. This spirit is what makes us who we are, and by following that spirit as it manifests outwardly, and inwardly, you are benefiting us all." -Andrew WK
  •  

amZo

Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 04, 2014, 02:37:56 PM
Because you're part of a society.  If you don't like it, try the Congo, where there's no government or taxes and everybody's so free to do whatever they want.

edit: I read your post again.  You seem rather confident in your financial security.  Wouldn't it be ironic (I don't wish this upon you) if you lost your job because of an unforeseen accident or illness, and then required public aid or would die?  Would you refuse public assistance at that point to remain consistent in your ideology?

Are you sick or disabled? If so, I'm not talking about you.

Really? I'm part of a society? Ya know, I'm aware and THAT is the reason I pull my weight. I believe a healthy society requires responsible adults pulling their weight.

Something else, having so many people on the public dole puts the truly needy like the true disabled at risk. So I think I'm doing a pretty good job of being a good citizen.

You're jumping to a lot of faulty conclusions.
  •  

amZo

Quote from: skin on March 04, 2014, 03:08:23 PM
That's not spin, it's a well-established truth.  But if you continue on insisting that the Republican Party was always a conservative party, I would love to hear you try and spin the actions of the party in the late 19th/early 20th century as anything but liberal  :laugh:

See my previous post regarding republican versus democrat vote percentages of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. This is just simple fact and you've been sold nonsense. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not you're own facts.

BTW, the movement to end slavery was a religious movement. It was Christian principles that brought about the republican party and brought about an end to slavery, not current day liberalism. That didn't exist back then.

Classical liberalism has more commonality to today's conservatism or perhaps today's libertarianism.
  •  

Hideyoshi

Quote from: Nikko on March 04, 2014, 03:17:35 PM
Are you sick or disabled? If so, I'm not talking about you.

Really? I'm part of a society? Ya know, I'm aware and THAT is the reason I pull my weight. I believe a healthy society requires responsible adults pulling their weight.

Something else, having so many people on the public dole puts the truly needy like the true disabled at risk. So I think I'm doing a pretty good job of being a good citizen.

You're jumping to a lot of faulty conclusions.

I never said you weren't a good citizen.

I have ulcerative colitis which is maintained on a drug which, without insurance, costs $1500 a bottle.  Without that medication, I would be bound to a toilet, anemic, and unable to work and contribute to society.

What faulty conclusion did I jump to again?
  •  

skin

Quote from: Nikko on March 04, 2014, 03:25:46 PM
See my previous post regarding republican versus democrat vote percentages of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. This is just simple fact and you've been sold nonsense. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not you're own facts.

At the time the Democratic party had two separate ideologies, similar to how there are Republicans and Tea Partiers under one party today.  Back then it was the northern Democrats and the Dixiecrats. Congress at the time was made up of almost entirely Dixiecrats representing the former Confederate states, very few Republicans were in the south.  Now if you look at just the northern states, 93% of Democrats voted aye compared to 85% of Republicans in the House, and it was 98% and 84% in the senate.

Quick statistics lesson: if you compare just two variables, before you declare there is an obvious relationship, it is wise to add a third control variable.  In this case, the control variable is region.  If the relationship between the dependent variable (party) and independent variable (% voting yea) changes with the addition of the control variable (it did), then the original relationship between the dependent variable and independent variable you analyzed is considered spurious.

"Choosing to be true to one's self — despite challenges that may come with the journey — is an integral part of realizing not just one's own potential, but of realizing the true nature of our collective human spirit. This spirit is what makes us who we are, and by following that spirit as it manifests outwardly, and inwardly, you are benefiting us all." -Andrew WK
  •  

amZo

Quote from: skin on March 04, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
At the time the Democratic party had two separate ideologies, similar to how there are Republicans and Tea Partiers under one party today.  Back then it was the northern Democrats and the Dixiecrats. Congress at the time was made up of almost entirely Dixiecrats representing the former Confederate states, very few Republicans were in the south.  Now if you look at just the northern states, 93% of Democrats voted aye compared to 85% of Republicans in the House, and it was 98% and 84% in the senate.

Quick statistics lesson: if you compare just two variables, before you declare there is an obvious relationship, it is wise to add a third control variable.  In this case, the control variable is region.  If the relationship between the dependent variable (party) and independent variable (% voting yea) changes with the addition of the control variable (it did), then the original relationship between the dependent variable and independent variable you analyzed is considered spurious.

OMG, are you serious??

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.  Read the following linked article all the way thru and be sure to listen to the Malcolm X audio, I think he likely nailed it.

http://www.black-and-right.com/2010/03/19/the-dixiecrat-myth/
  •