Another Yeson thread - I'm booked for Feb 26

[Jennygirl]

Jenny, do you still raise your larynx and resonate from your mouth now? I asked Dr. Kim about that and he said I should just be able to just use my chest resonance but a higher pitch. I'm not sure I really buy that though. He seemed to say that the whole raising your larynx and constricting your throat was bad for your vocal cords so he told me to just use falsetto (none of the larynx stuff) at the beginning, and then move to chest voice in a few weeks when I'm allowed to start speaking short conversations.

Honestly I have no idea what I'm going to have to do mechanics-wise to sound normal in a couple weeks. Right now when I say a single word it kind of just sounds the same as my old voice to me.

I do but less so than I used to have to in order to produce a female sounding voice before.

You are so soon after surgery I wouldn't worry about it. You had botox too so that is still wearing off (it makes your vocal cords super loose and groggy).

According to Yeson, the pitch will gradually increase over the course of 2 months so I'm sure you shouldn't worry about it. Just take it super easy on your voice.

Don't worry megan, you are all good! TRUST ME!

[megan2929]

Megan,

First off,  its really soon so be patient (easier said than done).

What do you mean it sounds the same? Same as your feminized trained voice or something else? Are you speaking normal but getting the feminuzed sound?

Aside from being concerned about how your feeling, I know I speak for many of us who are close  to our surgery dates and your feedback is crazy important.

Thanks for sharing and I really hope you get where you are hoping to be.

Lisa

Hi Lisa. So I'm only allowed to say a couple words per day so today I tried twice: Once in falsetto, and once in my original chest voice (my old manly voice). Basically the falsetto one sounded a little bit higher I think than I was able to do before, but the chest voice kind of sounded just the same as my old original manly voice. It might have been slightly higher, but it definitely didn't sound feminine.

Having said that, Jenny's right that it's still really early, and I also had the botox injection just 5 days ago which they said can make my voice lower and hoarse sounding at the beginning. I'm hoping that's all it is.  I've been going really easy on my voice so I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything to damage my vocal cords. Other than the couple words I've tried the last couple of days, I haven't made any other noises except sneezing twice.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress though, good or bad.

[Jennygirl]

Good work Megan! Yeah 5 days after botox your vocal cords are like noodles. Don't even worry about it.

In another week and a half you should have a much better idea of where your voice is headed

[Boca.Lisa]

Megan,

Keep following the post op instructions. Im sure you will start to see improvement very soon!

I know im speaking for everyone when i say we're all pulling for you and so want to hear your angelic new voice when the time is right.

Fingers and toes are crossed for you!

Lisa

[anjaq]

Was it the same for you Jenny? I remember the first time you put up a recording it was already really amazing sounding, but that was already after that waiting period. Did you have the same worries and experiences as Meghan there?

I wonder one thing - how the heck do you really avoid sneezing and coughing at all. I have tried to take notice a bit on that and found that I sneeze at least 2x a day usually and I cannot really stop it. I have to clear my throuat several times a day as well and sometimes when I eat something I need to clear it out of the wrong parts. This all sounds not like something I would want if I was to have a surgery there, but I dont know yet how to really avoid this. How did you all manage?

[megan2929]

I wonder one thing - how the heck do you really avoid sneezing and coughing at all. I have tried to take notice a bit on that and found that I sneeze at least 2x a day usually and I cannot really stop it. I have to clear my throuat several times a day as well and sometimes when I eat something I need to clear it out of the wrong parts. This all sounds not like something I would want if I was to have a surgery there, but I dont know yet how to really avoid this. How did you all manage?

For coughing and clearing my throat, I just quickly grab my water bottle and drink for as long as I have to to make the feeling go away. For sneezing, I quickly pinch my nose shut with my fingers and press my tongue hard against the roof of my mouth and that can usually stop the sneeze from happening. Drinking water also helps sometimes. Unfortunately there have been a couple sneezes escape that I just couldn't stop. Oh well. c'est la vie.

I tried saying a word today with my trained voice and it sounded very similar to how it sounded pre-op (which wasn't that bad really) but it kind of cracked in the middle of the word so it's hard to get too much of an idea yet.

[Jennygirl]

Was it the same for you Jenny? I remember the first time you put up a recording it was already really amazing sounding, but that was already after that waiting period. Did you have the same worries and experiences as Meghan there?

I wonder one thing - how the heck do you really avoid sneezing and coughing at all. I have tried to take notice a bit on that and found that I sneeze at least 2x a day usually and I cannot really stop it. I have to clear my throuat several times a day as well and sometimes when I eat something I need to clear it out of the wrong parts. This all sounds not like something I would want if I was to have a surgery there, but I dont know yet how to really avoid this. How did you all manage?

At 3 weeks, I could barely make a noise. The words that I did record were very very quiet. I was surprised the mic picked it up to be honest.

Megan please don't push it. You have to be very careful with how much you use your vocal cords right now because it could affect the healing. What Dr. Kim told me was to consider how quickly vocal cords vibrate... It is really very violent. The best thing you can do right now is to not talk at all. When you get to a month you can start using your voice.

[Expressgirl]

Thank you for posting all your details. It definitely helps me feel more at ease. I almost feel like I have been through it already. I am 4 1/2 hours away from surgery and I am so anxious. I definitely did not sleep much tonight, even though I am still jet lagged. Dr. Kim told me I have a tremor so I will need the botox injection. I also have vocal cord A-symmetry so Dr. Kim that for the rest of my life if I sing or yell it will cause damage to my vocal folds/cords. Oh well, I was always a terrible singer so it will just be doing the world a favor not to sing. I even bought the face masks, on your recommendation. Dr. Kim said my average natural voice is 125 hertz, so hopefully it will be in the female range (just barely). Just thinking about being able to speak naturally with no effort and being in the female range is super exciting. Can't wait for the results, I definitely think that not speaking for a month will be the most difficult part. Thank you all for your posts, by having details of every aspect of the procedure and recovery the unknown scariness is gone. Dr. Kim even showed me a video of the exact procedure, it helped make my partner feel a lot better.
BTW-Jennie you are his star patient, he showed me your before and after. LOL, but who can blame him your results are amazing.

[Boca.Lisa]

I think that every person who go want what Jenny got....the perfect voice.

Good luck XpressgIrl. See you next week.

[megan2929]

At 3 weeks, I could barely make a noise. The words that I did record were very very quiet. I was surprised the mic picked it up to be honest.

Megan please don't push it. You have to be very careful with how much you use your vocal cords right now because it could affect the healing. What Dr. Kim told me was to consider how quickly vocal cords vibrate... It is really very violent. The best thing you can do right now is to not talk at all. When you get to a month you can start using your voice.

Jenny, that's really interesting actually. I have actually decided to stay quiet for at least a couple more weeks (I've only tried 3 words in total so far over a couple days) but the instructions I got from Dr. Kim said I could be saying 2-3 words/day already. I was just staying silent as my own decision to help them heal faster. I wonder if it's different because you had 50% sutured while I only had 30% and I didn't have any asymmetry. I actually talked to him quite extensively about your voice because I really love it but he was pretty clear in steering me away from 50% and only getting 30% even though my starting pitch was lower than yours was. His main point was that 50% takes longer to heal and is much more difficult to recover from, and he felt that 30% would still give me a nice sounding voice. In the end I just had to trust that he knew what he was doing and I agreed to 30%. Anyway, I'm resting the vocal cords for now and just letting them heal without trying any more words. I've kind of gotten used to not talking and it's not as hard as it was at the beginning. I gesture a lot!

[Ginny]

Megan,
Congrats on your surgery, I hope that you will feel better in another few weeks.

Barbie,
What time would you recommend going to Seoul to best avoid air pollution/dust, as I tend to be pretty sensitive to those things?
----    ----    ----    ----    ----

Does anyone think Dr Kim would compromise to a 2/5 suture instead of a 1/3 or 1/2?
Also can anyone point me on how to determine the base frequency of my voice? So far I've been doing this:
1. open pratt -> Record Voice -> Save -> Go to View & Edit
2. once the bottom with the blue notes populates I stretch across the top.
3. I choose the middle number that appears on the bottom left between 75 and 300Hz.
*Using this method (not sure if its right) with the Rainbow passage I usually get 190-220Hz when false speaking, and 150-170Hz in my normal voice.
I could upload the files a .wav or is there some other type I should save them as so they can be analyzed?

[Expressgirl]

Hey everyone,

I don't mean to thread hijack, just wanted to let anyone who cares know I am out of surgery and recovering. No issues, other than my tongue being a little numb and swollen (totally temporary). As far as asking Dr. Kim how much to suture you really must let the expert do what he does best. He is very soft spoken and so sweet, so I can't imagine pushing for something he doesn't advise. But just like everyone else says it is like having a sore throat, nothing I haven't had before from a cold.

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Expressgirl,

I don't mean to thread hijack, just wanted to let anyone who cares know I am out of surgery and recovering. No issues, other than my tongue being a little numb and swollen (totally temporary).

Glad you made it safely! Have a happy and easy recovery! I can't wait to have mine next month!

Best,

Amy

[anjaq]

Great to hear another one went well! This is becoming a frequent message nowadasy and I am happy that this is workign out. Take good care of yourself int he next days.

Meghan - sound like a good idea to rest a bit more. What was your starting pitch if he recommended only a 30% and still thinks it is going ot be ok? I am a bit worried that in my case he would try the 50% as he already wrote me back that he may not even be able to properly feminize my voice as it is so far off.

How much increase in pitch does a 30% give compared to a 50%?

[Jennygirl]

Whoooeee this place is exploding!

Thank you for posting all your details. It definitely helps me feel more at ease. I almost feel like I have been through it already. I am 4 1/2 hours away from surgery and I am so anxious. I definitely did not sleep much tonight, even though I am still jet lagged. Dr. Kim told me I have a tremor so I will need the botox injection. I also have vocal cord A-symmetry so Dr. Kim that for the rest of my life if I sing or yell it will cause damage to my vocal folds/cords. Oh well, I was always a terrible singer so it will just be doing the world a favor not to sing. I even bought the face masks, on your recommendation. Dr. Kim said my average natural voice is 125 hertz, so hopefully it will be in the female range (just barely). Just thinking about being able to speak naturally with no effort and being in the female range is super exciting. Can't wait for the results, I definitely think that not speaking for a month will be the most difficult part. Thank you all for your posts, by having details of every aspect of the procedure and recovery the unknown scariness is gone. Dr. Kim even showed me a video of the exact procedure, it helped make my partner feel a lot better.
BTW-Jennie you are his star patient, he showed me your before and after. LOL, but who can blame him your results are amazing.

So glad to hear everything went well for you Expressgirl! I like how we learn a little bit more with every patient that shares their experiences with Dr. Kim. It's so nice to hear the different things he says.. I have a feeling that his recovery procedures and knowledge have become even greater than they were when I saw him for my VFS. I really hope to go back someday and I just might!

The numb tongue took about 2.5 weeks to completely go away for me. It is annoying but a small price to pay, and in less than a day the pain will be negligible. It sounds like you have read a lot and know exactly what to do- and that's just great!!

Thanks for sharing your experience with him And I know I'm not alone as I wish you a speedy and successful recovery! SO COOL that he showed my video! Apparently he wanted to use it for a conference too, but I don't know if he did... I kindly asked for some more money back because I am saving for SRS and could use all the help I can get

Jenny, that's really interesting actually. I have actually decided to stay quiet for at least a couple more weeks (I've only tried 3 words in total so far over a couple days) but the instructions I got from Dr. Kim said I could be saying 2-3 words/day already. I was just staying silent as my own decision to help them heal faster. I wonder if it's different because you had 50% sutured while I only had 30% and I didn't have any asymmetry. I actually talked to him quite extensively about your voice because I really love it but he was pretty clear in steering me away from 50% and only getting 30% even though my starting pitch was lower than yours was. His main point was that 50% takes longer to heal and is much more difficult to recover from, and he felt that 30% would still give me a nice sounding voice. In the end I just had to trust that he knew what he was doing and I agreed to 30%. Anyway, I'm resting the vocal cords for now and just letting them heal without trying any more words. I've kind of gotten used to not talking and it's not as hard as it was at the beginning. I gesture a lot!

Good girl, definitely take it way easy. And when they say 2-3 words they really mean it. It's not like you can say the same 2-3 words as many times as you want. I means you could say "Yes" twice in one day and that's it... I had Jessie confirm & clarify because I was so eager... I just wanted to SPEAK!

Yeah I think the lowest amount of suturing probably sounds like the best idea. For me, I had a small hemorrhage on the small side (I was damaged there, probably from straining in choir) at around the 2/5 point. He decided to suture above that which took any strain off of it and nullified it. Otherwise I think he would have gone with 1/3 for me, but I also had huge behemoth vocal cords even compared to a cis male (kind of how he described it). Honestly I'm pretty sure I used to speak normally in the 120-130hz range pre-op so I'm sure you'll be fine with 1/3.

Does anyone think Dr Kim would compromise to a 2/5 suture instead of a 1/3 or 1/2?
Also can anyone point me on how to determine the base frequency of my voice? So far I've been doing this:
1. open pratt -> Record Voice -> Save -> Go to View & Edit
2. once the bottom with the blue notes populates I stretch across the top.
3. I choose the middle number that appears on the bottom left between 75 and 300Hz.
*Using this method (not sure if its right) with the Rainbow passage I usually get 190-220Hz when false speaking, and 150-170Hz in my normal voice.
I could upload the files a .wav or is there some other type I should save them as so they can be analyzed?

I bet if you brought up a preference to a length you wanted sutured after telling him you've done your research, he might be open to considering it.

Also here is a step by step screenshot tutorial for Praat if you haven't already tried it:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html

Hope that helps but I think you already have seen that!

It sounds like you are doing it right

Great to hear another one went well! This is becoming a frequent message nowadasy and I am happy that this is workign out. Take good care of yourself int he next days.

Meghan - sound like a good idea to rest a bit more. What was your starting pitch if he recommended only a 30% and still thinks it is going ot be ok? I am a bit worried that in my case he would try the 50% as he already wrote me back that he may not even be able to properly feminize my voice as it is so far off.

How much increase in pitch does a 30% give compared to a 50%?

Indeed, it must be bustling over there. I love it! The diversity of people going through that office must be pretty crazy. It's easy to imagine, though, for some reason. I really like Seoul.

I dunno if you can really predict it completely, there are so many factors that can influence a voice. As time goes on I'm sure Dr. Kim will become even better at predicting the right thing to do. It certainly seems like he's getting a ton of experience now. I love that man! I hope you can meet him someday too Anja!

[megan2929]

Hey everyone,

I don't mean to thread hijack, just wanted to let anyone who cares know I am out of surgery and recovering. No issues, other than my tongue being a little numb and swollen (totally temporary). As far as asking Dr. Kim how much to suture you really must let the expert do what he does best. He is very soft spoken and so sweet, so I can't imagine pushing for something he doesn't advise. But just like everyone else says it is like having a sore throat, nothing I haven't had before from a cold.

Congratulations! Hopefully you'll be up and able to explore the city by tomorrow. Eat some Kalbi and try on a Hanbok

[anjaq]

I also have vocal cord A-symmetry so Dr. Kim that for the rest of my life if I sing or yell it will cause damage to my vocal folds/cords. Oh well, I was always a terrible singer so it will just be doing the world a favor not to sing. I even bought the face masks, on your recommendation. Dr. Kim said my average natural voice is 125 hertz, so hopefully it will be in the female range (just barely).

Hi. This worries me a bit now. I was told i have assymmetry as well. Can you elaborate on what he was saying there? Does an assymmetry mean one is not able to sing or yell even in the long run???
Also, is 125hz really alreadly in the lowest range where it is possible to feminize the voice? What base frequency is this to you? Your original voice or one already altered with training? My original is 100hz, my effortless trained one is 130hz, the 100 is below what you described as the lower limit

I dunno if you can really predict it completely, there are so many factors that can influence a voice. As time goes on I'm sure Dr. Kim will become even better at predicting the right thing to do. It certainly seems like he's getting a ton of experience now. I love that man! I hope you can meet him someday too Anja!

Hi jenny, if your chords were "behemoth" at over 120hz, whaz do i have at 100hz then
What worries me now a bit is the part about not yelling or even singing. I did fix a lot of my voice now, but i think i will not put the video to dr kim yet and rather wait more rehab hours. What totally confuses me is the whole thing about original voice, trained voice and what happens to that post op-which kinds of voices one can use, how they will change, mainly that whole resonance thing and which frequency to use as a basis for a judgement,m in my case 100hz or 130hz..

[barbie]

Barbie,
What time would you recommend going to Seoul to best avoid air pollution/dust, as I tend to be pretty sensitive to those things?

Please refer to the following figure in the right panel (monthly-averaged frequency of yellow dust in South Korea).



1 is January and 12 is December.

barbie~~

[Jennygirl]

Hi. This worries me a bit now. I was told i have assymmetry as well. Can you elaborate on what he was saying there? Does an assymmetry mean one is not able to sing or yell even in the long run???
Also, is 125hz really alreadly in the lowest range where it is possible to feminize the voice? What base frequency is this to you? Your original voice or one already altered with training? My original is 100hz, my effortless trained one is 130hz, the 100 is below what you described as the lower limit
Hi jenny, if your chords were "behemoth" at over 120hz, whaz do i have at 100hz then
What worries me now a bit is the part about not yelling or even singing. I did fix a lot of my voice now, but i think i will not put the video to dr kim yet and rather wait more rehab hours. What totally confuses me is the whole thing about original voice, trained voice and what happens to that post op-which kinds of voices one can use, how they will change, mainly that whole resonance thing and which frequency to use as a basis for a judgement,m in my case 100hz or 130hz..

I used to bottom out at E2 (82hz) and had power singing at F2 (87hz). Dr. Kim said that the muscles were not only long but very massive. Actually the whole voice box is huge.. I used to have a NOTCH of an adam's apple to prove it, too. It really didn't come as a surprise to me.

He told me that he would try to correct asymmetry and bypass the blood hemorrhage at the same time as shortening the vocal cords, and he would temporarily treat the vocal tremor (also noted that it would aid in healing by relaxing the vocal cord muscles).

He told me I would have a satisfactory result, but maybe not the "best" because of those issues. As well he warned me that I might not get the full increase because of the excessive thyroid cartilage shaving I had needed.

My best recommendation is for you to just go there, and he will fix whatever you need. Chances are if I had sent him a bunch of information about my vocal cords he might have recommended against it. Honestly Anja, I would just go or tell them that you want to do it anyway. I had worse issues than you did!

[Expressgirl]

Hi. This worries me a bit now. I was told i have assymmetry as well. Can you elaborate on what he was saying there? Does an assymmetry mean one is not able to sing or yell even in the long run???
Also, is 125hz really alreadly in the lowest range where it is possible to feminize the voice? What base frequency is this to you? Your original voice or one already altered with training? My original is 100hz, my effortless trained one is 130hz, the 100 is below what you described as the lower limit

I cannot say for sure what the lowest would be, but he averages an increase of about 74 hz. So if you are starting off at 100 hz you will hopefully end up at 175 and then if your effortless trained voice pushes you up another 30 hz you will be in female range. He told me my sustained voice for a sound is at 100 hz, so if I say ah for a few seconds I will have to use my trained voice or my voice will drop. Everyone is different and he has you do a bunch of tests and shows you the results on the computer. It makes is very easy to see tremors, average hz or other issues. As far as the singing or yelling, because one vocal cord is a lot thicker and stronger than the other any abuse of my vocal cords will cause the weaker cord to be damaged and the stronger one will try to compensate. He did not say I should never sing or yell, but obviously any abusive actions to your vocal cords is not smart, so I took as don't do it. I also had a big issue with the amount of air I was using to speak. I was using 5-7 times more air than the average person to speak and this was because my A-symmetry was letting a lot of air escape and my vocal cords were not coming into complete contact with each other. They only contacted each other in the middle.

As far as the pain, it is all but gone. I only feel a dull ache when i swallow, which actually makes it difficult to remember to be quiet. My partner had to insist to come back to the hotel this evening because I forgot the my surgery was only yesterday, I feel great. The worst part is the phlegm.