I'm going to more than likely kill myself.

[Jamie D]

So unfortunately because I like to think about my problems until I come up with a solution or a reasonable compromise, I have reached the conclusion that if I don't transition I will forever be unhappy and will more than likely end up kill myself, or the alternative I wait for my degree while serving, out myself as Transgender, begin my transition and because I wasted so much time in a military that unknowingly hates me come up with unsatisfactory and irreversible results and again kill myself. The thing is this isn't a 'I can't deal with the pain of living so I'm going to end it' sort of suicide, It's more of a logical 'Why waste my time in this life, time to move onto the next' kind. I don't really WANT to kill myself because it would devastate my family and I KNOW my mother wont be able to handle it, but in the end she's the one who has more or less stolen the precious years of my life from me because when her son who never comes to her with problems finally has one that leads him crying into her room to explain he doesn't want to be a boy anymore, and she 'Just doesn't see it'. God I'm so angry over this I'm literally thinking about coming out tomorrow and getting that ticket home so the USAF can kick me out and I can get on with this meaningless existence and the inevitable pressing of the Skip-My-Life-Button. Jesus, what the hell do I do?

How much time do you have remaining on your enlistment?

[Riven]

How much time do you have remaining on your enlistment?

about 3 years, which will put me at 24 years old. Too long for me to wait.

[Jamie D]

about 3 years, which will put me at 24 years old. Too long for me to wait.

Well, declaring you are trans may, or may not, get you discharged.  I know of some cases where they turned a blind eye to the situation because the transperson was highly trained and essential to the functioning of the unit.

I am not sure if military psychologists or counselors are bound by doctor-patient privilege.  We have several other active duty personnel on the site.  I can put you in touch with them, if you wish.

Just don't do anything drastic quite yet.  There are always better solutions than suicide.  Trust me on that one.

[Riven]

Any doctor / counselor employed by the Military is unfortunately required to report anything that would result in the patient being unable to serve and the reg that keeps transgenders says it would render me 'unable to perform my duties'. This doesn't extend to Chaplains however who have 100% confidentiality the backside of that coin is that they is literally nothing they can do other than sit and nod.

[skin]

Here's my experience with coming out while in the Navy:

Ultimately, I got discharged for it.  I said I wanted to finish my 2 years left before I transitioned, I just wanted to get ready for it before my contract ended.  The therapist said she was bound to recommend my discharge.  She said that beyond it being regulation (NAVMED P-117, article 15-58), that it would be best for me to stop hiding anyway.  However, before she wrote the recommendation for discharge, she put me on limited duty for six months for "depression." She said she was doing that so I had time to process everything and save money before I went home. And while she was completely supportive and did a lot of homework on the issue because of me, she also got it approved for me to see a civilian therapist who had experience with trans clients as I was her first one.  About four months later I told her I was ready to move on and she wrote a recommendation to my command for my discharge due to a gender identity disorder diagnosis in accordance with NAVMILPERSMAN 1910-120 and DODINST 1332.14 enclosure 3, 3((b)

I was then contacted by the command's personnel office and they asked me to request to separate as it would make it much quicker for me if my separation was voluntary instead of involuntary.  I consulted Navy Legal to make sure they weren't trying to screw me by making it voluntary and I was told they were not, and then I spent days in military manuals and instructions to confirm that.  I then wrote the request to separate to the CO and made it clear in the remarks that I did not really want this nor did I think the diagnosis inhibited my ability to be a sailor in the slightest, but I had come to accept that this would be easiest for both parties.  Four days later the CO granted my request and gave me an honorable discharge. 

I was treated with respect by everyone who found out.  A nurse who is an O-3 in the Army is the one who convinced me to stop repressing everything and embrace my true self.  The Navy therapist I had was also an O-3 and like I said, though she was a bit inexperienced on the subject, put in a lot of effort to support me.  Every time I saw her I could tell she spent a lot of time between sessions getting caught up on it and I actually liked her a lot more than the civilian I saw.  The security manager (E-7) who I had to disclose to in order to try and keep my security clearance back when I thought I had a chance at staying in was nothing but supportive.  While I never spoke in person with the CO, he did give me the honorable, and the one that I actually had face-to-face contact with was a salty old E-9, and he had very kind words for me. 

I know that it's likely different between the services.  Especially considering I was on a large base with a lot of mental health resources. I have no idea what the USAF equivalent of the manuals and instructions I was discharged under are, but if you think it would be any help I could email some of the letters and forms I have. 

[Riven]

Well, declaring you are trans may, or may not, get you discharged.  I know of some cases where they turned a blind eye to the situation because the transperson was highly trained and essential to the functioning of the unit.

I am not sure if military psychologists or counselors are bound by doctor-patient privilege.  We have several other active duty personnel on the site.  I can put you in touch with them, if you wish.

Just don't do anything drastic quite yet.  There are always better solutions than suicide.  Trust me on that one.

WILL get me discharged.

Here's my experience with coming out while in the Navy:

Ultimately, I got discharged for it.  I said I wanted to finish my 2 years left before I transitioned, I just wanted to get ready for it before my contract ended.  The therapist said she was bound to recommend my discharge.  She said that beyond it being regulation (NAVMED P-117, article 15-58), that it would be best for me to stop hiding anyway.  However, before she wrote the recommendation for discharge, she put me on limited duty for six months for "depression." She said she was doing that so I had time to process everything and save money before I went home. And while she was completely supportive and did a lot of homework on the issue because of me, she also got it approved for me to see a civilian therapist who had experience with trans clients as I was her first one.  About four months later I told her I was ready to move on and she wrote a recommendation to my command for my discharge due to a gender identity disorder diagnosis in accordance with NAVMILPERSMAN 1910-120 and DODINST 1332.14 enclosure 3, 3((b)

I was then contacted by the command's personnel office and they asked me to request to separate as it would make it much quicker for me if my separation was voluntary instead of involuntary.  I consulted Navy Legal to make sure they weren't trying to screw me by making it voluntary and I was told they were not, and then I spent days in military manuals and instructions to confirm that.  I then wrote the request to separate to the CO and made it clear in the remarks that I did not really want this nor did I think the diagnosis inhibited my ability to be a sailor in the slightest, but I had come to accept that this would be easiest for both parties.  Four days later the CO granted my request and gave me an honorable discharge. 

I was treated with respect by everyone who found out.  A nurse who is an O-3 in the Army is the one who convinced me to stop repressing everything and embrace my true self.  The Navy therapist I had was also an O-3 and like I said, though she was a bit inexperienced on the subject, put in a lot of effort to support me.  Every time I saw her I could tell she spent a lot of time between sessions getting caught up on it and I actually liked her a lot more than the civilian I saw.  The security manager (E-7) who I had to disclose to in order to try and keep my security clearance back when I thought I had a chance at staying in was nothing but supportive.  While I never spoke in person with the CO, he did give me the honorable, and the one that I actually had face-to-face contact with was a salty old E-9, and he had very kind words for me. 

I know that it's likely different between the services.  Especially considering I was on a large base with a lot of mental health resources. I have no idea what the USAF equivalent of the manuals and instructions I was discharged under are, but if you think it would be any help I could email some of the letters and forms I have. 

Same for the USAF, the only difference is my CO will laugh himself silly at my request for an honorable discharge.

[Jess42]

Don't take me the wrong way Riven and I know how looong time seems when you are young but 24 is still young. 3 years is not that long of a time even though it may seem so but you are 21 now. You have plenty of time to transition. If I were in your position I would find a therapist off post, therapy is really not that expensive ( around 80 to 100 dollars per session) and search your feelings with the therapist. Also a therapist can refer you to a psychiatrist that can prescribe medication. Both a therapist and Psychiatrist off post shouldn't be able to share information with the military unless they are contracted to the military. So make sure you ask them about that first off.

As for urinalysis, there is a five point and a ten point. Five point checks for the normal stuff like opiates, THC, narcotics and amphetamines. A ten point checks for a whole lot more such as benzos like Xanax and other things that I really can't remember. I'm not sure which one the military does but don't take any chances. Make sure that whatever you take you have a prescription for.

If you are in mental distress and suffering from anxiety due to GID go to the military mental health department but just use the excuse of anxiety and depression and leave out the GID issues. They may prescribe you something to at least get you through the next three years and you will have a prescription for it and in no way can they bust you on that. If you actually feel suicidal, by all means mention it. But if you are just blowing off steam and not actually considering it don't mention it because they can commit you involuntarily into the hospital for that. But again if you are actually feeling suicidal definitely tell them, we don't need to lose anymore sisters or brothers because of society's stupidity, by their own hand or someone else's.

I have been where you are now hon, and believe me you can make it through. Like I said in an earlier post look at transitioning as something to look forward to. Use this time to search yourself internally and make sure it is something that you want. Fantasize about who you will be when the three years are over. Use this time to hone that personality, in private start voice conditioning, practice walking, talking and female mannerisms and so on. I know this sounds a little crazy but use this time to get to know Riven and what Riven wants when Riven can be herself instead of the shell she is in now. At 24 you will still have a lifetime ahead of you and don't deprive yourself of that.

[MugwortPsychonaut]

Why would you want to be part of an organization who actively dislikes you for who you are? All you have to do is tell them, and you're free. Then you get to live your dreams.

[skin]

Why would you want to be part of an organization who actively dislikes you for who you are? All you have to do is tell them, and you're free. Then you get to live your dreams.

It's not that easy. If I would have been given a general discharge instead of honorable, things would be really tough.  Right now i am living of my gi bill which I could not have gotten with a general. I also had to pay back my enlistment bonus which wiped out my savings.  Transitioning is expensive and having the freedom to be yourself doesn't mean much if you can't afford to.

[Jess42]

Why would you want to be part of an organization who actively dislikes you for who you are? All you have to do is tell them, and you're free. Then you get to live your dreams.

The main reason for me was fooling myself. Macho soldier and all that stuff. It lasted for about 6 mos. until I figured out it didn't change me one little bit. The macho man wasn't really there as much as the scared little girl that knew she made a mistake and had to go through another 3 1/2 years suppressing who I am.

It's not that easy. If I would have been given a general discharge instead of honorable, things would be really tough.  Right now i am living of my gi bill which I could not have gotten with a general. I also had to pay back my enlistment bonus which wiped out my savings.  Transitioning is expensive and having the freedom to be yourself doesn't mean much if you can't afford to.

Exactly. It is way harder to find a job with a general discharge or a lot of questions from potential employers. An honorable discharge on the other hand, perspective employers goes a long way. As for the enlistment bonus I would have been in the same boat ' cause at twenty someodd I spent every last dime before it had time to sit in the bank long enough to draw any interest.

[Riven]

Why would you want to be part of an organization who actively dislikes you for who you are? All you have to do is tell them, and you're free. Then you get to live your dreams.

It's not that easy. If I would have been given a general discharge instead of honorable, things would be really tough.  Right now i am living of my gi bill which I could not have gotten with a general. I also had to pay back my enlistment bonus which wiped out my savings.  Transitioning is expensive and having the freedom to be yourself doesn't mean much if you can't afford to.

The main reason for me was fooling myself. Macho soldier and all that stuff. It lasted for about 6 mos. until I figured out it didn't change me one little bit. The macho man wasn't really there as much as the scared little girl that knew she made a mistake and had to go through another 3 1/2 years suppressing who I am.

Exactly. It is way harder to find a job with a general discharge or a lot of questions from potential employers. An honorable discharge on the other hand, perspective employers goes a long way. As for the enlistment bonus I would have been in the same boat ' cause at twenty someodd I spent every last dime before it had time to sit in the bank long enough to draw any interest.

Like they said, service with no GI bill at the end of it is essentially worthless unless you're a lifer. I just feel trapped in this stupid job and I'm the one who smiled like an idiot and signed the stupid paper. I don't understand why the USA is so behind on this whole military inclusion thing, I don't care if they don't want to pay for the big surgery but at least let me live openly and seek the help I need.

[Jamie D]

You never know what the next day might bring.  Have hope.  I think the world is a better place with you in it.

[MugwortPsychonaut]

I think the world is a better place with you in it.

This! This! This!

Yes! Thank you! More people need to hear this, because it's true.

[Jess42]

Like they said, service with no GI bill at the end of it is essentially worthless unless you're a lifer. I just feel trapped in this stupid job and I'm the one who smiled like an idiot and signed the stupid paper. I don't understand why the USA is so behind on this whole military inclusion thing, I don't care if they don't want to pay for the big surgery but at least let me live openly and seek the help I need.

Because the military is fully controlled by the government itself. There are no representatives of military people that advocate self expression and freedom to be who we are like the US Postal System Federal employees, and state employees. Yes gays can now serve openly but we got left out of the mix and until we have a trans movement in Hollywood much like the gays coming out and forcing Hollywood and therefore the rest of the country to take them seriously, we on the other hand seem to be fighting a losing battle. The old bathroom debate and rooming with cisgenders and all the mental problems that seem to accompany us and the list goes on. By the way the same crap that causes us mental distress is the same crap that the military uses against us, one big circle. Regardless I don't believe the military will ever change its stance on transgenders until we are accepted socially as a true gender variation. Until we are portrayed in a good positive light in movies and shows and people come to the realization that we are not sexual deviants or the equivalent of Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs ( I hated that freakin' movie ) then we may be socially accepted and therefor serve openly as ourselves in the military.

As an afterthought, I wonder just how many of us have given our lives throughout the years and wars so that society can be free without that same society knowing that these brave souls were trans? No matter spiritual beliefs I truly hope they are in spirit who they truly are now or in the case of atheism and other beliefs of non afterlife, that their last moments truly felt who they were without the bondage of physical gender. Regardless, thinking about this last paragraph that I wrote and I do think about it quite a bit, brings tears to my eyes.

[Riven]

I appreciate all the love and sentiment, but I just don't see any real hope for myself on this. Sure I can practice the walk and talk for three years, but then where does that get me? my bone structure and voice will be way beyond repair. I should have stayed true to my course when I first felt this instead of joining the military. but on the other hand, my mother would never allow me to take estrogen under her roof and I didn't have any means of making it to college OR paying for what I needed. If our military could just stop being so proud for just a while and look at other countries to maybe validate ourselves I wouldn't be stuck in this stupid predicament. I could be happily transitioning and never know what it feels like to have suicidal thoughts. I'm disappointed and angry to the point where I don't want to deal with it anymore. I can leave now and hope to god my future employer doesn't know anything about the military or I can stay in and let me body mindlessly destroy itself for the next three years until I'm out and decide it's not worth the attempt and waste all that time anyways. It is so tempting to just do it, and show my mother and the military the pain they're going to cause a family because of their own proud ignorance.

[LordKAT]

It wouldn't show them anything of the sort. Stay strong, you can do just as well in 3 years.

[Rachel]

Choices,

A) stay the course and get your degree and a job then $35,000 later FFS and vocal folds.
B) leave the military get a job and transition. Probably need $35,000 to fix your face and vocal folds.

Suicide for me is something I have chosen not to do since I was 11 (now 51). I think of it every day as one of 3 choices:
1) drugs, alcohol, smoking and food addiction, risky sexual behavior and risky car events. I was close to killing myself through these activities,
2) eating super healthy, maintaining my weight, being straight edge, dealing with fear and hiding and HRT and becoming me.
3) suicide outright.

I have done #1 and #2 and it is tuff for me to stay away from #1. I love #2. #3 I have had the plan since 11 and been close quite a few times. From a lifetime of these 3 choices I can share with you that #2 is fantastic and so much so that the more I go the further I am from 1 & 3.

So my dear, you have choices. The choices are difficult and require you to expose yourself, commit and actively do something to better yourself. Make a plan, Suicide is not the only option and #2 is a fantastic journey in self actualization, HUGS.

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi Riven,

I feel your pain. As do many others here. Never underestimate that.

I appreciate all the love and sentiment, but I just don't see any real hope for myself on this.

Thank you. And there's a lot of love and support here for you. If you can't see the hope, that's fine. There are plenty of people here who can see it or you. We've all done it, in our own individual way.

Borrow our belief in you until you can see it.

Sure I can practice the walk and talk for three years, but then where does that get me? my bone structure and voice will be way beyond repair.

Being a woman is more than just voice and bone structure. It takes tenacity, guts and integrity to be a woman, in a man's world, whether you're in the services or not. If you can "practice the walk and talk for three years", that proves you've got what it takes. It's only three years. There's many here that would glady swap. Some here don't have the hope of being free in three years, yet they persevere. Just do it.

It is so tempting to just do it, and show my mother and the military the pain they're going to cause a family because of their own proud ignorance.

Sadly there is no guarentee that will happen. There a really good chance, they won't see it that way. Therefore wouldn't this permanent solution to a temporary matter be just a waste?

You have family here. You chose to be loved by us. Hang in there. You can do this.

Huggs
Catherine

[Jess42]

I appreciate all the love and sentiment, but I just don't see any real hope for myself on this. Sure I can practice the walk and talk for three years, but then where does that get me? my bone structure and voice will be way beyond repair. I should have stayed true to my course when I first felt this instead of joining the military. but on the other hand, my mother would never allow me to take estrogen under her roof and I didn't have any means of making it to college OR paying for what I needed. If our military could just stop being so proud for just a while and look at other countries to maybe validate ourselves I wouldn't be stuck in this stupid predicament. I could be happily transitioning and never know what it feels like to have suicidal thoughts. I'm disappointed and angry to the point where I don't want to deal with it anymore. I can leave now and hope to god my future employer doesn't know anything about the military or I can stay in and let me body mindlessly destroy itself for the next three years until I'm out and decide it's not worth the attempt and waste all that time anyways. It is so tempting to just do it, and show my mother and the military the pain they're going to cause a family because of their own proud ignorance.

Hon, I know exactly how you feel and like I said earlier, three years is not that long even though it may seem so at such a young age. The little girl inside me thought the same thing with about the same amount of time you have left. The woman inside though figured out that if I took that course of action, Jessica would never get to be. What I suggested to you is what I did even though I am not on the same transition path. There are plenty who have made it through the same circumstances and please don't be a fallen sister due to lack of patience. At twenty four it won't be too late. Oh God how I wish I could be 24 again or even 30. Never consider suicide to spite anyone or anything. In the end life still goes on and all you'll be doing is hurting people that love you (family) even if it seems they can't accept you or become another suicidal statistic to an entity that could care less and won't change anything it is doing now. But the main thing is that you would be denying yourself to the life you deserve when the three years is up. And don't forget about your family here and how much it would hurt us to lose you.

Like Catherine Sarah said, you have family here. There are many of us here that went through the same hell you are going through and made it through the other side. In my opinion we are an elite group, all transgenders whether serving, have served or not. We face things that other's don't even give a second thought to. We know who we are inside when, in my opinion only, others in society haven't a clue who they are. It takes real courage, not false bravado, to proclaim to be transgendered so please hon, use that same courage to make it whether you stay the three years or get out early. We really need all of us in order to change society and if missing even one takes away from our numbers but more importantly we lose a loving sister (or brother) who is indeed loved like family by the rest of the community.

If it really gets bad, forget the GI bill and a general discharge is better than a dishonorable and save yourself.

[Jessica Merriman]

my bone structure and voice will be way beyond repair.

Riven I started transition at 47 years old after a 28 year career as a Paramedic/Firefighter. I had the build of a M1A1 when my career ended due to injuries in the line. I have had a great time and pass well in public since going full time January 1st. You can transition and be very successful and look great, especially at your age. I had to live with Dysphoria for 40 years and know how it effects you every single day. I could have and almost did end my life at one point. I am so glad I did not because I never would have had the joy and sense of happiness I do now. Please look forward to a life of happiness and not the conclusion of it, please.