cis fem confused about mtf issues

[eli77]

I so not condone, support, or otherwise feel any satisfaction at assault on trans women. For those of you having experienced that, I am deeply sorry. Sad to say, but the fatalistic part of me thought as I read those stories "welcome to the club" and to what too often is the female experience

Welcome to the club? No really. If you do your research (ex: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds) you'd understand that we are part of a super special exclusive club. The lowest of the totem pole women on the planet club. The club where I have more trans friends who have been sexually assaulted, than trans friends who haven't. Yes, thank you so much for your welcome. Thank you very much for your superior cis woman knowledge, like we don't have a damn clue. Please.

What happened to you is totally ->-bleeped-<-ty. Like absolutely, no question, those people were completely out of line and inappropriate and screw them for being disrespectful, disgusting jerks. But to paint an entire community of millions of humans from your own personal experience? The plural of anecdote is not data. And if you met me, you'd think I was just another cis girl, same if you met any of my trans friends. Cause we hide in plain view as a way to try to stay safe. Because you cis women, who have the political and social and legal power that I can only dream of? You are damn terrifying. Like totally. This story? It might set back trans rights in your state another decade, because ->-bleeped-<- trannies right? Who cares? Not important.

I'm 29 and a dyke and an editor. I'm disabled. I cut for nine years. I have a girlfriend I love to death. I've survived two suicide attempts. I have parents who love me and support me and look out for me and I go home every year for holidays and their birthdays. My sister is famous enough that I'm terrified it's going to accidentally out me at some point. I live stealth: my family and closest friends are the only ones who know my history. I'm a feminist. I've only slept with two different people in my life. I volunteer for the editorial board of a small socialist book publisher. I have green eyes and dark blonde hair and skin so pale it verges on translucent. I'm 6' tall and thin as a stick. I have 9 piercings and 2 tattoos. I wear glasses. I'm on an anti-anxiety medication.

You are probably thinking, what is the point of this? Why am I telling all this? Because I think that since you have decided to condemn me for the actions of others, that since you have decided that just my existence in your space is dangerous, maybe you should know something about me. Maybe you should consider the human being who you are condemning to "welcome to the club."

I would never wish such a thing on you. I would never want you to be unsafe or threatened. And I am extremely distressed and disturbed that you are so scared of me that you would knowingly condemn me to an unsafe environment (like seriously, do you know how few places have gender neutral facilities?). I don't think you are an ally. I think you are my enemy. I wish you weren't. But I think you are. And if I have to make you FEEL unsafe so that I can BE safe, I am willing to make that trade.

And like you said, in the end, my safety and the safety of my community comes first. Because who else is going to look after us? Nobody gives a ->-bleeped-<- about trannies. Duh.

[DrBobbi]

Fake post.

[locame]

Kia Ora Locome,

So now you have expressed your concerns and have received a number of responses, what will you take away from this encounter ? Are you 'more' or 'less' confused ?

Metta Zenda

Metta zenda,
Less in some ways. More in others. My initial emotional reaction having passed, I recognize that the trans community is more diverse than I've had experience withv(I knew this, sort of, but when you're in the midst of such a reaction its hard to see). More with regard to how the issue should be handled going forward. How do I reconcile the safety of others without endangering my own? In regards to facilities I am leaning towards regulations requiring private areas, period. Maybe the day for gendered facilities is over, period.

[Jamie D]

Interestingly enough the idea of legal action never even occurred to me. I reqd your comment earlier before speaking to a manager at the club. Maybe a weird part of my personality but while feeling violated in all of the circumstances I related, I never once sincerely believed someone was doing something to me intentionally. Assuming that the internet girl just had mental issues (she did which I won't get into), assuming that the two inappropriate conversationalists just really didn't get the boundaries, and that the last just had an uncontrollable physical response. With the caveat in the last case that the reaction when cilonfronted was less than understanding of anyone else's feelings which was intentional. Like, I'm entitled to wave my penis wherever I want.

I am glad you followed up.  I am glad the club has a policy.  Pre-op exposure in sexually segregated areas is a touchy issue in our community as well, as you stated earlier.

If it happens again, I expect you will do more that complain to the management.  I would have been equally offended if I had been in that locker room, or if a ciswoman had made lewd or suggestive remarks/exposure toward me.

You need to remember that much of the controversy surrounding this is cultural.  Take, for instance the ancient Japanese practice of hadaka no tsukiai; or the communal Roman baths.

[locame]

Sarah, again I'm sorry if that statement came off as callous. In no way did I mean that sexual assault of any kind was to be wished on anyone. My point was only that women are overwhelmingly the primary targets of sexual assault. I do not say that lightly as I have been victim myself. More... Resignedly that it is how the world unfortunately works, not how it should be.

[Alaia]

To the OP: So this person was just waving their exposed and erect penis around in the changing room without trying to be discreet at all? I just find that very difficult to believe. Perhaps I'm not reading the parts where you describe the experience right?

In response to your questions though, I will just say that I believe personal space should be respected. Also that everyone should have a right to feel safe in places like changing rooms and restrooms. But you can't judge all transwomen by the actions of a few bad apples. You punish the perpetrators, not put an entire group at risk because you think some of them might not be safe.

[eli77]

Sarah, again I'm sorry if that statement came off as callous. In no way did I mean that sexual assault of any kind was to be wished on anyone. My point was only that women are overwhelmingly the primary targets of sexual assault. I do not say that lightly as I have been victim myself. More... Resignedly that it is how the world unfortunately works, not how it should be.

And yet you are perfectly okay with dumping me into an extremely unsafe environment to take my chances.

Following this incident, if i were asked to vote on the issue, I would have to vote against inclusive restrooms, not because all trans persons are like that, but because it opens up the door to people who are. Like, when I leave my apartment I lock the door, not because the majority of people are going to break in, but because the fringe person might. Ultimately, I believe that all people should be safe from non-consensual sexualized situations of all forms.

Or am I supposed to read that in some other way than "go get raped in the men's locker room, you disgusting ->-bleeped-<-"? Because the dream of gender neutral rooms is just that: a dream. You think all the pre-existing buildings with only two sets of bathrooms are magically going to change overnight? Lolz. Or do you somehow imagine that a trans woman is gonna be safe in a men's room if she has a dick? Haha. Pre-ops and non-ops are MORE at risk of assault, not less.

I don't think you are "sorry" at all. I don't think you are here to find answers. I think you are here to give 'em. Because you got hurt, so you want to hurt back. But whatever. Maybe you'll prove me wrong. But the idea that you are an "ally" is comical at best, and rude at worst. My ally is my sis who took me into the women's restroom the first time, because I was too terrified to go by myself. You are just some person on the internet telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Such a new and exciting experience. Really.

And before you go for the "I'm sorry you are upset" line or whatever your next play for sympathy is. Lets be clear. I am responding because other people aren't gonna say this ->-bleeped-<-. Because they are too polite or too upset or too screwed up and broken. I am broken, but in different ways. So this is a thing I can do for them. I can protect them from bullies. From people who tell them what they aren't and how they shouldn't be. Me? I find you offensive and irritating, that''s about all.

And for the last time: Your prior sexual assault does not justify you threatening to place others in a situation liable to result in their own sexual assault. That is DISGUSTING. I guess I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

women are overwhelmingly the primary targets of sexual assault.

Not that its relevant, or I would expect anyone to know this, but actually male sexual assault is actually more common. Just the level of sexual assault against men in jails takes the level above female sexual assault. Again. It doesn't mean anything here I don't think, but still.

[Sarah leah]

If people do not like what I say then I am sorry, but I have a desire to speak up on this debate as healthy open discussion is vital to reducing barriers.

I honestly feel like being angry at the original post, (not the poster) but I cannot in all honesty as I feel bad for the OP as what is conveyed borders on obscene and cruel. However, I will not accuse anyone of being dishonest in their interactions, as I will not lower myself to the standards of a 4chan troll.

If there is even an iota or miniscule grain of truth to the arbitrarily stated accusations, and I say accusations as being of sane mind I would take legal action if I was being stalked or harassed! Then I too would have every right to feel upset. I know when I got my first 5 years degree at University I met some very diverse people, including women who took offence when I refused to engage in sexual contact with them, and a particularly violent lady who demanded I perform oral sex on her every time I walked in the room. Because and I quote, "you have such a smooth face I bet it would just slip right in there." Nevertheless, does this mean all women are perverse and socially defunct of understanding the simplest of social mores! No. In fact, the other 99.9% are much like me. We are compassionate, kind and have no desire to segregate others based on a 00.0001% section of the population. I have even met men who would frequently belittle my desire to work in a matriarchal dominated industry and call me ->-bleeped-<-got because I had no desire to engage in sex with said women. Does this mean all University students are misandric fools with little to no grasp of what it means to have empathy? No! 

Indeed, as a modern feminist, although I use the term 'feminist' loosely as it is not used by most modern European/Australasian scholars these days. I have come to learn that the actions of one person does not define the next, much like a single grain of sand does not make a beach. In fact, any notion of segregating a demographic based on an apparently perceived notion is archaic and a fallacy on the work of my collages and I who have worked hard to allow all people to be treated with respect.

In conclusion, do I disagree with your terminology and find your accusation horrifying? Yes. Does it mean I will not respect you for using said terminology and for speaking out so bravely? No. Do I hope you are treated with all the respect you deserve and justice is served? Of course, I do and I will fight for that right. Nevertheless, I feel upset that you addressed the topic as you did, it send the wrong message and that is repugnant.   

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

chances of problems with trans people in bathroom they identify as = very very small indeed.
Chances of problems with trans people in bathrooms they don't identify as = very very large.

I read recently that there have been no reported cases of inappropriate behaviour by trans people in bathrooms in the UK (where I live) but there have been multiple assaults on trans people.  Kinda stands to reason, which is why un the UK we have our bathroom rights protected.