Transitioning from a senior position in a large multinational

[Evolving Beauty]

Hi Julia, well if Carla Antoneli succeeded as deputy, I don't think it'd be that big problem for you. Moreover you know how big advantage we have and all the rights possess here.

[Julia-Madrid]

You know, Cindy makes exactly the point that I think is important.  If you are comfortable in your skin and assertive about who you are, this is such an important part of the battle already won.  When I did step one of my transition - becoming openly gay (yup)- it was a huge difference and I felt massively more comfortable.  That gave me license to no longer act straight, wear some elements of female clothing (I'm only 5'4" - getting girl stuff is quite easy for me  ), talking about my boyfriend to my close colleagues... and everyone is very accepting. 

But I am quite blunt if people challenge me, and I don't take nonsense from anybody.   Maybe I am terrrribly naive, but I don't have any issue in theory with becoming a trans standard-bearer in my work - leadership in company social issues is almost as important as business leadership.

Or am I being way too naive?

[Julia-Madrid]

Well, there is only one way to find this out, isn't it? I wonder how things would go in very Catholic-minded country? I was told that given my area of expertise and things what I am doing - this could be used as an example to change people's minds - and society is very divided and highly intolerant, people are idealising patriarchal rural society here, which makes me very sceptical about any changes possible until a generation or two would fade out. But being a standard-bearer puts You out in the open and chances are - You will be alone there, at least for some time. Everyone can strike standard-bearer and Your hands are taken with standard You hold... Plus, people will know and remember who You are and who You were - unless You have settled personal life or dont have much expectations about that - this would seriously limit Your possibilities. And once You start the HRT, personal life becomes much more important as You cant shut down and withdraw from Your inner feelings anymore (testosterone has this side-effect or maybe that is a primary, but estrogen does quite the opposite). Are You ready for that?

Well, Emily, while Spain is still tranditionally Catholic, there is a growing support for alternative lifestyles. In Madrid and Barcelona these days, you literally fall over same-sex couples in the street.  And as our friend EvolvingBeauty notes, there are a few high-profile transwomen in Spain - in politics and the arts.   

As far as withdrawing from my inner feelings goes, honey, I am such a damn sensitive boy that this is already an impossibility, so heaven knows what HRT will do!!  But still, I think the journey will show me with enough time which actions to take regarding being a standard-bearer.  Rule 1:  over-deliver in your work, then deal with the other stuff.   I'm not scared of challenges, so yes, I am ready!

BTW, where are you from?  I have some guesses (Poland, Netherlands), but could be way off :-)

[Cindy]

Julia after coming back from WPATH where many of the big players are TG or genderfluid one thing came out. The successful people are because we are damn good at what we do. We make sure that we have stuff covered and we are better than our colleagues. We don't give room for attacks and cover them as well.
OK that may not be 'fair' but nothing in life is; and I'm not going to use the 'you shouldn't discriminate against me because discrimination is wrong' card, I take it full on (as do others) and bury them.

I take the attitude that I'm different and I'm proud of being me. I don't look for favours, I take myself seriously and I will stand as equal to all. I think it is important that those of us who are fortunate to be leaders, lead. That helps our brothers and sisters immensely in the long term.

Oh and my apologies Julia, welcome to the site, it is so nice to have you on board.

[Julia-Madrid]

Thank you Cindy for the warm welcome. 

To everyone, I have truly been surprised by the response to this thread, and to the carefully considered and intelligent replies from all of you, especially those for whom English isn't your first language.

Since I think this is a very comfortable little oasis I really want to stick around, but for some reason I seem to be stuck in "visitor" mode and unable to modify my profile.  Can anyone tell me how I change this?

Hugs to everyone!

[Julia-Madrid]

Hi girls

Here's one that got my brain going when I was talking with my psychologist today, and it's to do with the pros and cons of doing a gradual transition at work versus doing it as a Big Bang??  Would really like to know your feelings here...

OK, it's likely that after however many months on HRT, and whatever else, that there will be some more-or-less subtle changes (facial softening, less noticeable beard growth, some breast growth), but my experience is that people don't notice these things much, and you can conceal them quite successfully if you want to. 

So what's "better", if I can use such a term?:  to gradually make my work persona more and more feminine ("Hey, is that's a girl's suit your're wearing?") or to hide this and get to some point where it just makes sense to turn up presenting 100% as a woman ("Wow, is that really you?").  Of course I would at some point talk to HR, senior managers and close colleagues to brief them, but there's a real difference between how they and I would deal with a message like "I'm gradually going to turn into a woman and you will see changes little by little" versus "I'm trans and next Friday there will be a new girl in the office".

Thoughts?

Yours perplexedly... 

[peky]

Hi girls

Here's one that got my brain going when I was talking with my psychologist today, and it's to do with the pros and cons of doing a gradual transition at work versus doing it as a Big Bang??  Would really like to know your feelings here...

OK, it's likely that after however many months on HRT, and whatever else, that there will be some more-or-less subtle changes (facial softening, less noticeable beard growth, some breast growth), but my experience is that people don't notice these things much, and you can conceal them quite successfully if you want to. 

So what's "better", if I can use such a term?:  to gradually make my work persona more and more feminine ("Hey, is that's a girl's suit your're wearing?") or to hide this and get to some point where it just makes sense to turn up presenting 100% as a woman ("Wow, is that really you?").  Of course I would at some point talk to HR, senior managers and close colleagues to brief them, but there's a real difference between how they and I would deal with a message like "I'm gradually going to turn into a woman and you will see changes little by little" versus "I'm trans and next Friday there will be a new girl in the office".

Thoughts?

Yours perplexedly... 

and that is my story, slowly but surely...

I work for a 75,000 people company with interests and offices in many countries. I wear many hats but the main one is to push technology development... I am one of the senior technical person in the company.

several years ago I had a trusted boss make inquires as what the consequences of transitioning would be... well the word that come back was..."let us know how we can help"

Well, because other issue in my personal life (kids, debts, divorce) I could not afford to do a fast change. So, I went slow: letting my hair grow, dressing more androgynous, perfume, dash of make up; and slowly told my close associates at work. Later on I began the legal change of name follow with initiating HRT. Once my breast become noticeable, about a year later, I went full time as female. The last step was to change my gender marker in my legal papers.

I was not demoted, nor my chances of achieving lead positions have been diminished, even on the face of having to represent the company in public situations (conferences, trade presentations, marketing efforts, etc.). To my astonishment both costumers and lead figures in my company have not batted an "eye lash" when I have brief...now, I am saying this because I am quiet an stunning looking middle age woman (a fashionist) but with a rather deep voice...


Another thing that surprises me is that my 'hassle-free" experience does not only includes my country, USA, but extends to Latin America and Europe (my areas of responsibility). Now, I must confess that my experiences wherever I go is with the intelligencia and the upper class, and in very exclusive and classy venues... and thus I have not been exposed to the raw parts of any country or city..

[Julia-Madrid]

Hey Peky

Very interesting indeed!  I must be honest that my preference would also be for a gradual transition, since there are things in my head that also need time to evolve. 

I do know about a woman in a senior role at a massive, very paternalistic and macho company here in Spain who did her whole social transition in just 6 months.  I am going to try meet her, since we're in the same industry, and try to understand her challenges.

The very first thing both my endo and psy asked me was whether I worked in a public-facing role - i.e. the implication being that transition tends to scare the customers.  How did you deal with this, since I am sure there must have been times when you confused them?

Just thinking aloud here, with a slightly indelicate question: since you present as an attractive woman, to what extent do you think that the "girl who was once a guy" thing is actually (surprisingly) a positive and visible marketing message for you within your company.  I mean, it does kind-of get you noticed, doesn't it...?

Questions, questions...
Gracias!
Julia

[Cindy]

Possibly my situation was a little different as I work in Pathology and my colleagues are medics or Professorial level. They tend to be very accepting, well at least in Australia.

I went slowly then reached a point that I couldn't keep doing slow changes, not for any physical reason, just that it was time for me to accept myself fully. So I announced it on a Friday and the new girl started on Monday.

I received no negative comments to my face. I obviously don't know what was said behind my back but it couldn't have been too terrible.

I was well known before and that went through the roof, I was instantly recognized by the senior executives who went out of their way to talk to me and make sure I was OK.

Chairing meetings was very easy, my personal confidence was dramatically increased and I believe that I am more effective in my role than he was.

When job and budget cuts began to occur I was instantly known as a person whose opinion had to be taken into account. Because of this my sections were protected as I had a voice.

Teaching has not been a problem, students seem to be very accepting of gender differences and it was inconsequential to them. If anything there was a sense of pride of being the student of the TG professor.

I am very aware that my position may be unique, but I have taken pains to make sure that I support everyone who has gender issues and helped a few 'come out' as Gay or Lesbian. They know my door is open to discuss private and personal issues.

I have had no problems with patient interactions but then again my patients tend to be very ill and in shock of dealing with their situations, and a caring person is often the one who is important to them in their journey.

My male colleagues have become very protective of me, to a point that I notice them drift past my office if I am meeting a new male business contact. Which is very sweet.

Physically I pass well, vocally I do not, my voice has been destroyed into a male one. But no one has made an issue of it.

I can summarize my experience by a recent comment from a colleague who I have not met prior to my change. He asked for a coffee meeting to discuss a new project. I agreed but warned him that I had undergone a sex change. His reply was 'Good on you, you do still drink coffee though?'

I have lost nothing except a life time of depression.

[Julia-Madrid]

So Cindy, undoubtedy in your case you took an already high visibility role and your change almost certainly resulted in improved marketability for you!  Good on ya girl!!

I have only been in my company for a year, but have been noticed, thankfully for the right reasons!  So it is important for me to keep advancing, despite, ahem, present but vital distractions.  But my psy has cautioned me to say nothing and do nothing in a work environment until things are clearly underway, and for me to manage the contradictions between work and social worlds and how I present in them.

On a slight tangent, the comment from your male colleague regarding coffee is interesting.  Over the past few weeks I have been gradually socialising my desire to transition to female with many of my closest friends (no family yet!).  The women have been very supportive indeed.  The straight male friends have all been massively, incredibly supportive, which I found surprising.  But the group which surprised me most was my collection of gay friend, one whom is a past lover.  While I have not lost their friendship, their first reactions were very strongly negative.  I have my theories, but I'm still trying to understand it...

Hugs
Julia

[Julia-Madrid]

Hey Emily - I don't think it's cynicism at all, just reality.  Effectively it means that I am lost to the "brotherhood".   For girls, I would be joining them; for straight guys they're either indifferent or potentially even interested.  But for gay guys I'd be doing all the wrong things...  yup!  However, there is a contradiction, since many gay guys say that girls are their closest friends...

[Julia-Madrid]

Thanks Cindy and Peky for your really illuminating observations and experiences.

Hugs
Julia

[Rachel]

I am a Director at a Hospital. I want to become a Vice President within 3 years and I think I can earn the position but it will require 2 to 3 weeks per month travel and a lot of sacrifice. I want to earn the position as a trans woman. I am 51 and I am realistic as to my potential physical realities on HRT.

I am out to HR, Benefits, my EVP, my Operations manager and a colleague.

I have been on HRT for 8.5 months and my breasts are starting to show through work shirts and my hair is below my collar. I came out to those above at work May 2013. At that time I told them I will present male until I give them 3 months notice of dress and or name change. This will allow them time to plan and me to make a fantastic presentation to all the Departments.

My company is unique, we have a LGBT policy and transition covered through health insurance, including therapy, lazar, hair transplants, breast implants and prescriptions and GCS. Our President is female as well as 80% of the employees and management. I live in a city that has specific legislation protecting trans* identity. I meet with my boss last week and we discussed me and the transition. He said, "I know we have LGBT policies but I am worried". He went on to say when I come out he wonders how the executives will respond. He said he knows there are policies but then there is reality. He also said the same about my staff. He said, "I fear they will not follow you".  I told him I think everything will be fine and if not I will work someplace else. He did not like the answer. Did he think I was going to say I will stop transition.

I present to the organization Leadership and at professional conventions. I am presenting in a National Convention in the Spring. I know one thing for sure HRT or therapy or coming to terms has altered my confidence. I use to get so nervous I would not be able to see the audience, it was just black with some gray shades. Now I see the people, colors and am at total ease. I still prepair and rehearse like there is not tomorrow but now it is vastly different. I am confident and at ease.

Something else happened, last Thursday at work at the end of the day. I was going to the bathroom, finished and was fixing my pants. I was light headed (need to drink a lot more water and skip the coffee). I awoke on the floor. After a bit I realized my head hit the toilet bowl and I was laying there thinking what to do. If I called for help they would call a code blue and a team would be there in 2 minutes. I would be checked head to toe and transported. I chose to regain my thoughts and later leave the bathroom to my office ( drank a lot of water). I had a concussion and am just today feeling better. If I was not hiding I wonder if I would have called for help. I had a radio, cell phone and 2 way pager and fear. Things happen and things can get out of control. Transition and lack of control of the unknown or unforeseen go hand in hand.

[Julia-Madrid]

Hi Cynthia Michelle

You are most fortunate to have such comprehensive medical cover for your transition; almost certainly none of this is covered by my scheme here in Spain!

So, from your final paragraph, you're highlighting a common enough fear that I think many of us have:  we're in transition and trying to balance multiple contradictions in the workplace and outside it.  We're moving to another gender and always lightly "pushing the envelope".   But we want to control when and what other people might notice, which is not always so easy.   However you look pretty much in control, so good on you, and go get that VP position!!

Hugs
J

[Lara1969]

I am out to my approx. 100 employees and to my boss. I am part of a large German automotive company. I took two weeks off and I just recover from FFS and hair extensions :-)
When I am back I will present myself as woman. First reaction of my outing was positive and I hope the second reaction stays positive. I am very open regarding questions and prepared background information for my outing. HR was also very supportitive.
I think it helps to be very open and to stand for ourselfes. Like your mayor here in Berlin said: I am gay and is right!

Lara

[Julia-Madrid]

Hey Lara

Yay!  Excellent news.  How are you doing with the FFS?   It's great to know that you're advancing and that the initial outing at work went well.  Comparatively I have a very loooooong way to go still, but we all have to start somewhere I guess.

Tell me about your hair exensions - I'm really interested to know what you've done there, since it's something that I've also started considering, but I really have no idea what is possible to achieve with hair extensions these days.

Huge hugs from Madrid!!!  Do let us know how you progress as you recover from the FFS.

Julia

[Greeneyedrebel]

I envy those of you with supportive workplaces that have LGBT policies!!!!!

I'm in the US Bible Belt, at an annoyingly conservative company. I'm just beginning to break into junior management roles project by project, and the potential reaction to a trans* individual in this company scares me.

My little department just (last week) moved from an outlying building to directly IN the corporate HQ, so I'm still trying to learn the ropes of the new environment.

Does anyone have any tips for the conservative corporation? Or perhaps I should rethink that "Get out of Dodge as soon as I finish grad school" idea.

[Julia-Madrid]

I envy those of you with supportive workplaces that have LGBT policies!!!!!

Yeah, those kinds of things do help, but of course you still have to deal with difficult and obstructuve colleagues, because I'm sure I am going to find those in my company as soon as I make things happen...

All the same, good luck!!

J

[Julia-Madrid]

Hi girls

So here's an update... Yesterday I started the conversation in my company.  First stop was our in-house doctor.  She kind-of knew that something wasn't all as it seemed late last year.  But she's now pretty much behind me, although I am her first case in the company.   She will open up a direct line to the HR department, and I'll probably start that next week.   So far so good...

An interesting side note:  I was at a meeting with my extended group of colleagues in Milan some weeks ago, and as I was about to leave for lunch with one of them, we passed the "rest rooms", at which point he jokingly indicated I should go to the ladies side.  (At work I still present as male).  And by mistake I replied "Not yet," and he stopped in his tracks and said to me "Are you serious?  In your case that would be so cool..."   So yeah, I fessed up and now have a colleague who really wants to go out one night with the new girl.   An unexpected result :-)

[barbie]

An interesting side note:  I was at a meeting with my extended group of colleagues in Milan some weeks ago, and as I was about to leave for lunch with one of them, we passed the "rest rooms", at which point he jokingly indicated I should go to the ladies side.  (At work I still present as male).  And by mistake I replied "Not yet," and he stopped in his tracks and said to me "Are you serious?  In your case that would be so cool..."   So yeah, I fessed up and now have a colleague who really wants to go out one night with the new girl.   An unexpected result :-)

Yes. Restroom is always a thorny issue. In public restrooms, I enter women's, but it is difficult at my work place (university) as everybody knows that I am a dad. Peeing at men's room while wearing mini-skirt is embarrassing to both students and myself. I sometimes use the room for handicapped.

Transgender tend to be introspective, thinking too much about the reactions of others. They can be surprised at your new image, but are anyway busy doing their own business.

barbie~~