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ID inmate who castrated self in prison sues for estrogen therapy

Started by LostInTime, July 12, 2007, 07:34:07 AM

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Lori

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 09:53:14 AM
Empathy is a virtue I guess not everyone has been gifted with.

And some have too much. I will never feel sorry for a felon/convict/criminal. My empathy is only for victims and their families.
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Nero

Quote from: Lori on July 13, 2007, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 09:26:24 AM
Ok, now you're just sounding ridiculous here. I'm assuming you didn't intend it this way, but now you sound as if you are equating the sick desires of pathological monsters to GID.

Who are you to decide that one persons mental anguish is different from anothers? According to many people here, criminals in prison should not have to suffer mental anguish because they are convicted. It is a well documented fact that those with sexual mental issues live in anguish for not getting what they need. If you want to be so politically correct and bleeding heart, don't pick and choose who's suffering to ease. Help them all or dont' help any of them.
The difference is that 'easing the mental anguish' of a child molester would make one party to the crime, not to mention the harm to the victim. Treating a person's GID is not a crime.

Sure, child molesters, serial killers, cannibals, etc. suffer deep anguish. They'd have to to commit the atrocities they do - but their paraphilia is not the same as GID. Unless you view GID as a paraphilia and not a biological condition.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Lori

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 10:01:38 AM
The difference is that 'easing the mental anguish' of a child molester would make one party to the crime, not to mention the harm to the victim. Treating a person's GID is not a crime.

Sure, child molesters, serial killers, cannibals, etc. suffer deep anguish. They'd have to to commit the atrocities they do - but their paraphilia is not the same as GID. You're making it sound as if it is.

I'm just trying to draw the distinction that if you want to be so pollitically correct and fair, if you help one prisoner for mental anguish, you should help them all. Obviously there is no way to ease the suffering of a child molester or a rapists that is morally correct with the exception of putting a bullet in their head wich I am all for. So they have to suffer because we cannot do that either and they must live and deal with their mental anguish. Too bad for them right? To me fair is fair. All prisoners should be treated equally. Yet we choose to help one prisoner because it doesnt hurt anybody, and let the others suffer.

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Manyfaces

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that child molesters and rapists in prison do receive treatment, in the form of counseling, psychotherapy, rehabilitation programs, and even, in some cases, chemical or surgical castration (maybe I'm tripping, but it seems to me I've heard of this happening) in an attempt to suppress their desire to commit the crime again, because some of them are going to be released back into society just because of the way our justice system works, so it is in the best interest of society to at least try to treat them to reduce recidivism.




 
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Nero

Yeah, they do recieve that and sometimes chemical castration.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Hazumu

Quote from: Rob on July 13, 2007, 10:34:32 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that child molesters and rapists in prison do receive treatment, in the form of counseling, psychotherapy, rehabilitation programs, and even, in some cases, chemical or surgical castration (maybe I'm tripping, but it seems to me I've heard of this happening) in an attempt to suppress their desire to commit the crime again, because some of them are going to be released back into society just because of the way our justice system works, so it is in the best interest of society to at least try to treat them to reduce recidivism.

Strangely enough, I grew up with a kid who went on to be featured on the Megan's Law website as a registered sex offender.  My sisters and I have been kind-of following his case since we spotted his name in an article in the paper.

Recently, I found he'd volunteered to be castrated in order to curb his compulsion.  The article mentioned a study that concluded that castration -- either real or with drugs -- did reduce or eliminate the compulsion the sexual predators feel.  The article also mentioned mental health professionals and family members who had seen a marked change in his personality.  Even his sister, who had before argued for his permanent incarceration, was now arguing for his release based on this change.

But there wer naysayers who argued that even if he had an orchiectomy AND a penectomy, he was still a pervert sex offender who could 'still use his hands and mouth' and would be to his dying day and should be incarcerated for just exactly that long.

They said he was born that way, AND he had a choice.  Folks, ya' can't have it both ways.  EITHER he was born that way, and can't help it because his system is out of whack relative to 'normal' people, and we need to find some treatment that actually reduces or eliminates the urges he is feeling that provoke him to act, OR he could choose not to do it just as easily as you, I, or most anyone else could choose not to do it.

I can't think of harming a child but a cold, sickening shudder races through me.  Most people are that way, but some few are not.  Can a normal person even remotely entertain doing what we do without thinking it's one of the stupidest, most scary things they could ever do?  Could you talk someone into transitioning if they're not trans?  Can you talk one of us into NOT transitioning?  I rest my case...

Karen
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Thundra

QuoteShould we give children to child molester's because that is what they need and we should have "empathy" for their mental state of being and under governmen incarceration, it could be viewed as cruel and unusual punishment to them because they do not have access to kids? Hell no. Let them suffer.

Should we give women to rapists because that is what they must have to feel or be normal? No, let them suffer as well.

I will simply chalk this up to an emotional outburst, because I know. Yes, I know that you are not really trying to make an analogy wherein:

SRS is to a transgendered person, as child victim is to pedophile.

-or-

SRS is to a transgendered person, as woman victim is to rapist.

I think that you can see where I am going with this.  Apples and oranges.

SRS is not a crime, and child molestors and rapists are not in need of a surgical correction for a physical deformity. But I think you already know that.

You are lashing out in anger. Been there a good deal of my life.

Here is what I had to learn. Feeling good, or even vindicated by forcing someone else to undergo the same pain, suffering and anguish as you, does nothing to improve your situation, or their's. Advocating that someone else be denied a service you cannot have, whether out of resentment for their good fortune, or because of misguided ideology does nothing to help them or you.

If someone cutting on themselves, possibly leaving them with the inability to have the surgery they desire in the future, does not move you to some kind of the smallest amount of compassion, than I am afraid that you are not in a place to clearly hear anyone on this forum.
You are too caught up in your own pain and anguish right now.

QuoteAnd some have too much. I will never feel sorry for a felon/convict/criminal. My empathy is only for victims and their families.

And that is your right, to hold that belief. But consider this.

Does it make sense to lump in a car thief with a rapist or a pedophile?

A pedophile attacks and harms a child, affecting him/her for the rest of their lives. I personally would pull the trigger if I caught someone harming a child. Seriously. We agree there.

A rapist attacks and brutalizes a woman, possibly turning her into a victim for the rest of her life. It's like being in a prison. My belief is that rapists should be chemically or physically castrated. Seriously. We agree there too.

But a person that boosts a car where no one is hurt, maimed, or killed is not the same thing.
Sure, I can see where it might have made life more difficult for the person whose vehicle got jacked. But if that person was not in the vehicle, and was not harmed, odds are that it was someone that had a nice car, and insurance ~ which means that they were momentarily inconvenienced. It's an inantimate object for Pete's sake. Do you really want to make a case where the pain and suffering caused to a woman or child is on the same level of the inconvenience caused by stealing someone's car?  I don't.

Now, this person that "took things into their own hands" might be feeling the same things as you -- be just a tortured as you. They made a bad decision. But, I would also ask you to consider this. Did anyone ever show them a different way out? You are being responsible and working hard, which is a positive attribute for sure. But maybe she can't see that. If she can't, than is slapping her away with a bunch of men where she will be abused or worse be solving anything? In my experience, and I am older than dirt, no it will not. It will make them become even more crazed and bitter about their situation, and possibly motivate them to elevate their crime the next time, because when a person feels that they have nothing to lose, one of us usually does.

Finally, I ask you this. If the US had the same kind of insurance system as our sister-nations like G.B or Canada, would you still be so upset? I mean, if your SRS was going to be paid for, just as her's would be while in prison, would you still be upset? As upset? Only you know the real answer to that question.

Life is hard. We all bear it's scars. Some are deeper than others, and some are covered in them. I for one do not want the karma of helping someone else deal with more than they already have. WE as a nation spend billions and billions and billions killing, maiming, murdering, brutalizing, oppressing, and occupying other people around the world. Compared to the cost of spending a little money to help one person in pain, I am not too concerned about breaking the bank. You capiche paisan? I come from a world that is meaner and starker than anything Hollywood can imagine. I walked away and want no part of it. If this person has experienced a part of that world, than it would be to the advantage of everyone to help them escape.

Pay me now, or pay me later. But someone will ultimately pay. Unless someone is able to nreak the circle of violence and crime. This topic started out as a news story about treating a prisoner, but the more important story here, is whether compassion is a good or a bad thing.
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ChildOfTheLight

I believe that those who show mercy when harshness is needed will show harshness when mercy is needed.  Neither is justice.

I'm just not sure which side of this case that belief puts me on.
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tinkerbell

Well, since transsexualism is a medical condition, I believe that she should get HRT in the same way that a diabetic inmate receives insulin.

tink :icon_chick:
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