ID inmate who castrated self in prison sues for estrogen therapy

[LostInTime]

The Columbian
Jul 11, 10:28 PM EDT
By REBECCA BOONE
Associated Press Writer

An Idaho inmate who considers herself a woman trapped in a man's body - and who castrated herself while in prison - is suing the state in federal court to get female hormone therapy for what she describes as gender identity disorder.

Jenniffer Spencer, who is biologically male and castrated herself using a disposable razor blade in her prison cell, claims the Idaho Department of Correction and its health care providers are violating her constitutional rights and subjecting her to cruel and unusual punishment by failing to diagnose gender identity disorder and treat her with the female hormone estrogen.

[Lori]

And who's constitutional rights did this "convict" violate to wind up in prison?

[Sandi]

And who's constitutional rights did this "convict" violate to wind up in prison?

I'm not following your logic on "constitutional rights," Jenniffer Spencer is in prison for breaking the law, then escaping a prison camp. Constitutional rights don't enter into it, unless you include the owner of the stolen car. She gets no sympathy from me, and can wait until she is out and can afford her own surgery.

The case began in May 2000, when Spencer - then still using her given name of Randall Gammett - was sentenced to prison for possession of a stolen car. She was sent to a boot camp prison program at Cottonwood, but after an escape attempt was ordered to serve her full sentence for possession of stolen property as well as time for the escape, a total of 10 years.

[Lori]

I'm not following your logic on "constitutional rights," Jenniffer Spencer is in prison for breaking the law, then escaping a prison camp. Constitutional rights don't enter into it, unless you include the owner of the stolen car. She gets no sympathy from me, and can wait until she is out and can afford her own surgery.

There is no logic. I'm just making fun of the convict saying their constitutional rights were being violated making the point that they inconvenienced somebody to get in the position they are in.

Not only do I not feel sorry for him/her or whatever they say they are, they should get added time for having a razor blade in the prison cell, and added time for destruction of state property.

[Melissa-kitty]

I do understand your points, but estrogen is cheap, not hard to follow for medical personnel, and it may result in this person doing much better, being less aggressive, suffering less, thereby making it more likely she will become a productive citizen.
They could follow the SoCs, even in the prison system.
Tara

[ssindysmith]

I agree, I have no sympathy for her. However, I would argue that if she already has a doctors script for E then the state is obligated to provide her, her meds.

[Melissa]

She is probably referring to the 8th amendment

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

However, I wouldn't say that withholding a GID diagnosis is unusual and it's certainly not being inflicted.

[Sandi]

I mentioned that she should wait until she is out and can pay for her own surgery. I have no problem at all with filling hormone scripts. Nor obtaining one through the proper channels.

[Thundra]

I am constantly shocked at the lack of empathy I see at this forum directed toward people much worse off than themselves. It is  a fact that transgendered individuals tend to be poor, and undereducated, and often run into problems with the law.

A good example was Brandon Teena. That boy was in all kinds of legal trouble, but all that anyone remembers is that he was murdered by a couple of whack jobs.

I don't know why this person was in possession of a stolen vehicle. But if they are trans-whatever, it is no surprise that they tried to escape a male jail establishment. Why would you stay and take the inevitable abuse?

And why the anger displayed about people trying to help this person? Jealousy? Because they might get something that you are working hard toward, or are being denied?  Don't project your problems onto other people. Having someone else in a position of pain and suffering does nothing to help your situation.

The best part of the feminine sprit is love and forgiveness. Try to be more like her.

[Jonie]

The mental torture this person went through to enable them to endure the pain of doing that to them self was surely enormous.

[Sandi]

[quote="="""]I am constantly shocked at the lack of empathy I see at this forum directed toward people much worse off than themselves. It is  a fact that transgendered individuals tend to be poor, and undereducated, and often run into problems with the law.[/quote]
Whether one is transgendered or poor is not an excuse to steal a car, then escape from prison. It is this persons own fault they are in prison, and not the fault of anyone else in society.

It isn't like she was stealing hormones, female clothing, or anything else to do with gender. I can empathize with a person who steals a loaf of bread if their family is hungry. I cannot empathize if that person steals a non-necessity.

[Thundra]

I cannot empathize if that person steals a non-necessity.

Judgment begats judgment.  I cannot empathize with all of the pain and suffering that trans-people endure, but I surely try my best to sympathize with their plight. People make mistakes.
I doubt anyone was killed to gain ownership of the vehicle, so I am willing to cut her some slack.

At least half of the neighborhood where I grew up were criminals or criminally involved in one way or another. You've got to give people a chance. Maybe if they help her with her "problem," she will become a more balanced citizen. I'd at least give them until "fool me once..." before I pull out the rug.

[Susan]

Whether one is transgendered or poor is not an excuse to steal a car, then escape from prison. It is this persons own fault they are in prison, and not the fault of anyone else in society.

Lets see what the SOC says about the matter.

Hormone Therapy and Medical Care for Incarcerated Persons.

Persons who are receiving treatment for gender identity disorders should continue to receive appropriate treatment following these Standards of Care after incarceration. For example, those who are receiving psychotherapy and/or cross-sex hormonal treatments should be allowed to continue this medically necessary treatment to prevent or limit emotional lability, undesired regression of hormonally-induced physical effects and the sense of desperation that may lead to depression, anxiety and suicidality. Prisoners who are subject to rapid withdrawal of cross-sex hormones are particularly at risk for psychiatric symptoms and self-injurious behaviors. Medical monitoring of hormonal treatment as described in these Standards should also be provided. Housing for transgendered prisoners should take into account their transition status and their personal safety.

Either the SOC is valid or it is not. We can't pick and choose which parts we like and support, with that which we don't

For example I fully agree with the following...

Sex Reassignment is Effective and Medically Indicated in Severe GID.

In persons diagnosed with transsexualism or profound GID, sex reassignment surgery, along with hormone therapy and real-life experience, is a treatment that has proven to be effective. Such a therapeutic regimen, when prescribed or recommended by qualified practitioners, is medically indicated and medically necessary. Sex reassignment is not "experimental", "investigational", "elective", "cosmetic", or "optional" in any meaningful sense. It constitutes very effective and appropriate treatment for transsexualism or profound GID.

[Hazumu]

I have to pick sides here, and I side with Thundra on this.

In addition, if you argue that she can be denied care for GID while in prison (because she's a bad person or because whatever,) then others can argue that WE can be denied medical care for our GID -- even if we can afford to pay for it, just because they see it as wrong.

And please don't start with the deserving/not deserving @^%#*-ola.  I'm proudly Liberal/Progressive/Empathetic/Nurturing, and I'm sick and tired of reading about Resident Bush  and his dittohead bushies reveling in denying equal treatment in marriage, preparing to veto the Matthew Shepard act and ENDA, and calling us all a bunch of sicko deviants---

---and then coming here to see more of the same directed by Susan's Place members on not one, but TWO different topics of incarcerees who some of y'all (gleefully, it appears,) render judgment that they don't DESERVE to have their medical condition (GID) properly treated while they're incarcerated.

Y'all want to make the U S and A a colder, crueler, more callous place than it's already become?

Karen

[Sandi]

Either the SOC is valid or it is not. We can't pick and choose which parts we like and support, with that which we don't

There was nothing I posted that is contrary to what you excerpted from the SOC. I'm all for providing hormone replacement, and also therapy as I indicated above. However I'm not for doing the gender surgery at tax payers expense, nor is the SOC.

[Pysgod]

I have to pick sides here, and I side with Thundra on this.

In addition, if you argue that she can be denied care for GID while in prison (because she's a bad person or because whatever,) then others can argue that WE can be denied medical care for our GID -- even if we can afford to pay for it, just because they see it as wrong.

And please don't start with the deserving/not deserving @^%#*-ola.  I'm proudly Liberal/Progressive/Empathetic/Nurturing, and I'm sick and tired of reading about Resident Bush  and his dittohead bushies reveling in denying equal treatment in marriage, preparing to veto the Matthew Shepard act and ENDA, and calling us all a bunch of sicko deviants---

---and then coming here to see more of the same directed by Susan's Place members on not one, but TWO different topics of incarcerees who some of y'all (gleefully, it appears,) render judgment that they don't DESERVE to have their medical condition (GID) properly treated while they're incarcerated.

Y'all want to make the U S and A a colder, crueler, more callous place than it's already become?

Karen

I agree. So she stole a car. Maybe she was going to sell it to a chop shop. Trying to get the money for hormones and other things she needed. Bear in mind please that I'm not saying she was right in doing it. But maybe the fact that she might have seen it as her only way out. Health care in the US won't pay for GID issues. Especially not the stuff a person gets from welfare. People often forget that in destitute areas, getting out of them is actually harder than it looks. And saying that she doesn't deserve to have her GID treated with the things she needs, hormones being one thing. Well that just smacks of elitism. Do people really deserve things? They might think they do. The idea of deserving something has always been to me a sign of someone whose family never had to worry about keeping a roof over their head or food in their bellies.

[Nero]

Not only do I not feel sorry for him/her or whatever they say they are, they should get added time for having a razor blade in the prison cell, and added time for destruction of state property.

Whoa! That's pretty callous.

[Sandi]

I agree. So she stole a car. Maybe she was going to sell it to a chop shop. Trying to get the money for hormones and other things she needed.

Very possible, or maybe she needed to sell it to a chop shop to feed her family, or maybe she just liked, and wanted the car. However, now that's getting into pure speculation to make excuses alleviate or increase the harshness crime.

Unless her reasons were given in the article, which I didn't see, we are chasing the wind with speculation.

[Thundra]

Quote from: Lori on Today at 01:05:55 PM
Not only do I not feel sorry for him/her or whatever they say they are, they should get added time for having a razor blade in the prison cell, and added time for destruction of state property.

Whoa! That's pretty callous.

It's misdirected anger. Been there, done that. Part of being a victim. Misery loves company and all that good stuff.

[Lori]

Well he/she stole a car then escaped from prison. Where do you bleeding hearts draw the line? Do we say yes to murderers as well? What if it had been your car? A crime is a crime regardless of the persons mental/physical condition. I still say add more time. I don't care if it sounds callous or not, it is my opinion and I stand by it. I don't care either what the reason was for the theft. There are other ways of getting what you need without commiting a crime.

I dont care if this person was trans, gay, bi, mental, or whatever. The fact is they commited a crime then escaped from jail. They are there because of poor decisions they made.

If what you all are saying is right, then why in the hell am I working hard to save money for surgery? I should just go commit some crimes, escape from jail, go back and then make the state and taxpayers pay for everything. Gee, why didn't I think of that first? I could be getting everything for free. 


This has nothing to do with misdrected anger. If you feel so strongly for this individual why don't you take up a collection and pay for the surgery yourself. I have zero sympathy for thieves or criminals. Any assumptions you make about why this person is there is just that. An assumption. The point is it was a personal choice to commit the crime then escape from jail. They have nobody to blame but themselves. Sooner or later, personal responsibility for one's actions has to come into play. Sorry, but compassion for a criminal?  My compassion is for the person who's life was upset by some idiot who decided to steal their car.