Parting words and my feelings of betrayal from this community

[jebee]

Right this may cause some agro but i dont care, yes there are some stage fetish trans people out there, i was at a swing club the other night, i won't go into the details, but needless to say the things they said turned my stomach, seriously that person was not a transexual but a man doing it for sexual kicks.
But this was the first time i have ever encountered such a person, so they are pretty rare thankfully

[Just Shelly]

First off I do believe that many of the instances of what the original poster describes do happen....its part of society, you have many different types of people....some deranged...some strange and some psychopaths. unfortunately because the trans population is far fewer than the rest of the population these type will stand out more.

Secondly I find it hard to believe that someone ran into this many type of weirdo's.....and the fact she uses terms I wasn't even familiar with until I came to a site like this....and I researched all about who I was starting in libraries 20 years ago. But it doesn't matter if I believe or not, it matters that I am clumped together with many of these types....and for me that sucks.

This has nothing to do with not accepting another's motivation or reasons for transitioning but like sex and politics its something you talk about or do in private, or with others that are into that type of thing.

I will tell you this! I have become even more of a women I thought I ever could, much of this comes from how society perceives me and places me. Some of it bad, some of it good.  I have adapted many more feelings I may never had before. A man making a rude comment about a woman means something entirely different now....or something as little as a man spitting a goober on the ground is much more disgusting than before.

Then there are things I would never have put up with before my transition and even more now. If an MTF is in a public bathroom looking strangely at other women or possibly making sexual gestures. I will tell you right now, if I witnessed this I would either call the police or the store management.....and I am an MTF....the only difference between than and now is that I am the one in that bathroom!

Now if I was in the bathroom and an MTF came in that clearly didn't pass, I would let her go about her business if she acted like all other people do in society....but if I had young children that felt uncomfortable I may leave and come back. This doesn't mean I don't except her it means I am uncomfortable.

This is the one reason I remain stealth and have stayed away from meeting any other MTF's or attended support groups. I have heard too many strange stories. I have even been told by more than one therapist that I may not feel comfortable in some of the support groups they have attended, they felt I wouldn't fit in with the type that attended. Its not that they were strange or bad people, its that they were more about appearance than acceptance.

[Declan.]

This is not my subforum, so I apologize if posting in your space isn't encouraged. The most frustrating part about this isn't even the denial that these things happen sometimes. We're transgender, but we're still people, and some people are creeps. Pretending like we're "above that" implies that we're somehow different from other people and, in my opinion, that doesn't do us any good. No, the really frustrating part is the backlash and attacking that sometimes happens when someone shares an unpopular opinion. Feeling like opinions can't be shared without making enemies is not a good feeling on a support forum. There are ways to disagree, even strongly, without being condescending.

Abby, I will miss you. I hope you change your mind, but I understand if you don't.

[Ltl89]

Well, I'm glad we are okay, but it really upsets me to see you leave over that thread.  You have added a lot to this forum and have contributed much in the short time you were here.  If you need to leave, then I understand, but don't feel like you should.  Most people here support women's rights just as much as the next person, and I think there was a lot of misunderstanding and hurt caused from the topic that should have been avoided.  I think this place remains a safe and inclusive place for everyone.  Let's not let one conversation divide us.  And I'll say this I personally think it's nice when there is someone closer to my age group than most as age can be a bit isolating in these places. You probably talk and inspire more people than you think.   In any case, do what's the best for you and you know where I am should you ever need anything.  Good luck.

[Calder Smith]

I think that thread was totally blown out of proportion. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry you have decided to leave; you seem like a really nice girl. I think you shouldn't let one thread make you leave. There are people like myself who agreed with your posts in that thread.

[Calder Smith]

I think that thread was totally blown out of proportion. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry you have decided to leave; you seem like a really nice girl. I think you shouldn't let one thread make you leave. There are people like myself who agreed with your posts in that thread.

[Sarah leah]

I posted in that thread and I would hope that I was clear and concise in what I stated. I feel sorry for anyone who faces these things, and in my heart I would feel sickened and report it without a second thought. The issue I had was the terminology being used. Unfortunately the thread was closed and my PMs never got replied too on the matter. As I had wrote more to explain it in a polite way

As a "modern feminist" I look at the bigger picture and find issues that need addressed, which like many of my mothers, and grandmothers generation they had to address in the 60-80s. Now a days its about advancing the cause and moving away from the archaic notions of the past theoretical model, much like an scientific model or in this case sociological model should do.

In terms of you leaving, please take care and know I think you are brave for standing up for your opinion. It is never easy to do and we must always do what we think is right even when faced with adversity.

Love
Sarah

[stephaniec]

I think that thread was totally blown out of proportion. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry you have decided to leave; you seem like a really nice girl. I think you shouldn't let one thread make you leave. There are people like myself who agreed with your posts in that thread.

as it was said of one of my posts when I was someone else , It wasn't worth the casualties   

[Declan.]

To be fair, I don't really think it's just that one thread/conversation. From my experience, it does feel like you'll get attacked on all sides if you say the wrong thing on this site, and that can be a stressful atmosphere for some - especially if their life off the boards is already full of conflict. I've never felt attacked, but seeing it happen to others is even worse than if it happened to me. I don't want to imagine what could happen if someone who's already on the edge gets treated like that.

[locame]

Not trying to invade or invite debate.

Jussmoi, I am sincerely grateful for your kind responses. I've had enough experience having differing opinions from the radfem community, and being shouted down so I seriously take no offense to the negatives. It all just makes me feel kind of sad for hurt people out there in the world.

Sarah, I would be interested to discuss what part of my terminology was bad. I didn't get any private messages to respond to (not that I can anyways, not having enough posts to do so apparently) If it was, I honestly just don't know it. In writing the original post, I researched terms so as to try not to offend anyone, but still ask the questions.

I will excuse myself from your space as well folks, as it was never my intention to cause any issues. However, I still am open to listening to ideas on where I might be going wrong in my preconceptions and/or terminology. I can be contacted at my user name here by any at gmail.com.

Not just those persons, but many responded helpfully, kindly, and understandingly. Props for that.

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

We are a community of people with different opinions.  jussmoi4nao, you did jump straight to saying some broad brush harsh things. Just relax, we are going to disagree. A site like this is a valuable resource for you. really it is. really really. where are you going to go when you want advice on surgeries, or to ask people if this is normal, or to find out about new hormone information etc. NOt here because you left over an argument about who uses which bathroom?

I like Paris Lees' take on the matter.  Been as you're here Locame - you should read it too.
She is an authority you know. You can tell; she is even pictured with a toilet.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/can-everyone-stop-freaking-out-over-which-bathroom-transgender-people-use

[mrs izzy]

And we wonder why the community is still struggling for our rights as humans in 2014.  Playing to ones fears always works. Its at worked here.

Isabell

A good read. http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/08/19/this-is-what-conservative-media-think-a-transge/195448

A few lines from article.
Unlike Joseph's character, most people who are actually transgender make efforts to present and appear in a way that matches their gender identity. Transgender women don't typically walk around in men's clothing will full faces of facial hair. They don't typically refer to themselves as "a transgender." And they certainly don't stand outside of women's restrooms announcing themselves and asking passerbys for permission to "go in there... and change and shower and stuff."

For most transgender people, being outed in public - and especially in bathroom settings - can frequently result in harassment, discrimination, and even violence. Being identified as transgender can invite intense transphobic mistreatment, which is why "passing" - being regarded as a member of the sex that matches your gender identity - can be so important for many transgender people.

[eli77]

To be fair, I don't really think it's just that one thread/conversation. From my experience, it does feel like you'll get attacked on all sides if you say the wrong thing on this site, and that can be a stressful atmosphere for some - especially if their life off the boards is already full of conflict. I've never felt attacked, but seeing it happen to others is even worse than if it happened to me. I don't want to imagine what could happen if someone who's already on the edge gets treated like that.

There is a distinct difference between opinions about your own life and opinions about other peoples' lives. I've made that point before. That "opinion" does not magically protect abysmal behaviour. It is not a free pass to say whatever you please. And if someone says something nasty dressed up in an opinion like "you disgust me" then well, you get what you paid for. The end.

I don't have patience for people who essentially want to say incredibly nasty things about me, and then go "well it's just my opinion." If you are gonna go for radical free speech. Any one can say anything. And that means there aren't "attacks," just more, contradicting, opinions. jussmoi4nao said nasty things about people, and then some of those people said nasty things about her. That is all that happened. A flat failure of etiquette.

If it wasn't so fraught and stressful and distressing for so many members of our community. I'd be bored.

Not trying to invade or invite debate.

Jussmoi, I am sincerely grateful for your kind responses. I've had enough experience having differing opinions from the radfem community, and being shouted down so I seriously take no offense to the negatives. It all just makes me feel kind of sad for hurt people out there in the world.

Sarah, I would be interested to discuss what part of my terminology was bad. I didn't get any private messages to respond to (not that I can anyways, not having enough posts to do so apparently) If it was, I honestly just don't know it. In writing the original post, I researched terms so as to try not to offend anyone, but still ask the questions.

I will excuse myself from your space as well folks, as it was never my intention to cause any issues. However, I still am open to listening to ideas on where I might be going wrong in my preconceptions and/or terminology. I can be contacted at my user name here by any at gmail.com.

Not just those persons, but many responded helpfully, kindly, and understandingly. Props for that.

You. You got what you wanted. Good job. I hope the distress you've caused here has made up for the distress those trans women caused you. Oh WAIT IT CAN'T. Because we aren't the same trans people. Whoops. Guess two wrongs don't make a right after all.

[Jessica Merriman]

To our new members. This is an emotionally charged topic. Susan's is a very safe place and can be trusted. Things like this topic happen every once in a while just like in public. Please do not judge our site based on this subject. This is not representative of us at all. You are safe, accepted and we do care.

[jussmoi4nao]

There is a distinct difference between opinions about your own life and opinions about other peoples' lives. I've made that point before. That "opinion" does not magically protect abysmal behaviour. It is not a free pass to say whatever you please. And if someone says something nasty dressed up in an opinion like "you disgust me" then well, you get what you paid for. The end.

I don't have patience for people who essentially want to say incredibly nasty things about me, and then go "well it's just my opinion." If you are gonna go for radical free speech. Any one can say anything. And that means there aren't "attacks," just more, contradicting, opinions. jussmoi4nao said nasty things about people, and then some of those people said nasty things about her. That is all that happened. A flat failure of etiquette.

If it wasn't so fraught and stressful and distressing for so many members of our community. I'd be bored.

You. You got what you wanted. Good job. I hope the distress you've caused here has made up for the distress those trans women caused you. Oh WAIT IT CAN'T. Because we aren't the same trans people. Whoops. Guess two wrongs don't make a right after all.

Could you please quote the nasty things I said? I don't remember that. And I didn't see a whole lot of nastiness directed at me either, except by you, mostly, and a couple others.

I tried to be nice and graceful toward you because you have said kind things to me in the past, but this sidelining me and talking about me to other members on a topic *I* started? Not cool.

All I ever said was victim blaming (which is basically what this is a case of) was nasty and disgusting. Ironically, I'd been applauded for that in the past...when it related to transwomen. But now I'm hated for it because it's something you all have to deal with in YOURSELVES. Guess what? My opinions haven't changed. The things I said were directed at disgraceful, misogynistic behavior. I called NO one by name.

And you know what Sarah, the funny thing is, I'm not the one with a hero complex here. I am the arbiter of nothing. I am an opinionated bitch and I speak my mind. That's all. I have a perspective to offer just like anyone else...I think with all the attempts you make to shut down conversations that really should be had, you'd better back up and look in the mirror before you say that ->-bleeped-<- about me.

Sorry for the swearing, not sure if milder words like that are still banned.

[jussmoi4nao]

But anyway, yeah, this has all left me emotionally drained. All I did was try to stand up for someone who was getting a lot of backlash for sharing a personal experience of harrassment. If you wana hate on me for that, okay, I don't want you on my side anyway.

But yeah seeya guys, bye.

[stephaniec]

Not trying to invade or invite debate.

Jussmoi, I am sincerely grateful for your kind responses. I've had enough experience having differing opinions from the radfem community, and being shouted down so I seriously take no offense to the negatives. It all just makes me feel kind of sad for hurt people out there in the world.

Sarah, I would be interested to discuss what part of my terminology was bad. I didn't get any private messages to respond to (not that I can anyways, not having enough posts to do so apparently) If it was, I honestly just don't know it. In writing the original post, I researched terms so as to try not to offend anyone, but still ask the questions.

I will excuse myself from your space as well folks, as it was never my intention to cause any issues. However, I still am open to listening to ideas on where I might be going wrong in my preconceptions and/or terminology. I can be contacted at my user name here by any at gmail.com.

Not just those persons, but many responded helpfully, kindly, and understandingly. Props for that.

I'm sorry as long as we're still on this topic .Am  I misinterpreting something or is locame saying she's part of the radfem community , which doesn't matter I was just curious.

[MacG]

Even assuming that original post about fears of the trans community were genuine, it put us all on the defensive. It was an unfair premise for the op (of that other post) to lump everybody together as if we were one giant cohesive community. Sure, we all have one thing in common, but it's not like we're a corporation with mission statement and can hold all members accountable.
So we were put in an untenable position if defense.
And that's just not fair, regardless of the intention if the original post.

[locame]

No, Stefaniec, just the opposite. Asking why radfems take certain positions or behave certain ways causes a backlash of immense proportions. I could only expect the same in this topic, because it is all a very emotionally wrought subject from BOTH sides.

And yes, I realize now that the question was the same as if I asked "why do men just want to screw?" It is a generalization but I truly did wonder if it was the dysphoria itself that triggers an overcompensation effect, or if media plays a role in how someone not socialized female thinks that women act. I'm  glad to hear that it isn't a generalization to the whole trans community. But, you don't know until you meet those people. Done that now.

[stephaniec]

No, Stefaniec, just the opposite. Asking why radfems take certain positions or behave certain ways causes a backlash of immense proportions. I could only expect the same in this topic, because it is all a very emotionally wrought subject from BOTH sides.

And yes, I realize now that the question was the same as if I asked "why do men just want to screw?" It is a generalization but I truly did wonder if it was the dysphoria itself that triggers an overcompensation effect, or if media plays a role in how someone not socialized female thinks that women act. I'm  glad to hear that it isn't a generalization to the whole trans community. But, you don't know until you meet those people. Done that now.

I'm glad you realize that it not part of a dysphoric condition because if it was I would of blown my head of as a child.