_

[Jessica Merriman]

Are those actually helpful?  I think their legal meaning is basically zero.  But I wonder if people find them useful in practice.

Not where I live. It carries the same weight as Doctor's orders. Legal authorities give you any grief or disclose and they name the Department after you. Well, and give you a nice paycheck as well.

[ThePhoenix]

Not where I live. It carries the same weight as Doctor's orders. Legal authorities give you any grief or disclose and they name the Department after you. Well, and give you a nice paycheck as well.

I'd need to see some legal info (like a citation to the authority that says so, or at least an article from a reputable source) before I could accept this as true.  I am a lawyer and I do follow the law in this area.  And although I certainly don't know everything, I am pretty confident that this is not true anywhere in the US or, indeed, the world. 

If a policeman were to conclude that a trans person using the restroom was an arrestable offense, then the carry letter does not immunize from that.  In a practical sense, it might be helpful in the ways others have identified.  For example, a commonly used charge for arresting trans* people in the bathroom is disorderly conduct.  I can see how a carry letter might help persuade a policeman that the person was either not being disorderly or was not meant to be disorderly.  I can also see how that might persuade the officer to drop the whole thing or let someone off with a warning.  If you did get arrested, it might even be evidence in your defense.  But if an officer really wanted to go ahead and arrest the person, they could do so, carry letter or not.  If a doctor orders a person to do something illegal, the doctors orders do not suddenly make it legal. 

Even if the law did require them to let a person with a carry letter alone, you wouldn't get a big check if they broke it.  You would get compensatory damages that might vary depending on how much you were actually damaged or they might be set by statute, if such a statute existed.  You might get some lost wages or some compensation for the distress of being arrested, but not a big payday.  Sorry. 

[Eva Marie]

Okay . . . So how long is one meant to carry around the carry letter?  Surely that can't be a permanent thing?

Probably as long as your gender marker on your ID does not match the gender that you are transitioning to/presenting as. My letter explains that I have gender dysphoria and that I am under proper medical supervision and that I am following the conditions that are required of me for the treatment of gender dysphoria and lastly that I am not up to anything nefarious. It has my therapists contact information too in case someone wants to verify that the letter is valid.

[ThePhoenix]

Probably as long as your gender marker on your ID does not match the gender that you are transitioning to/presenting as. My letter explains that I have gender dysphoria and that I am under proper medical supervision and that I am following the conditions that are required of me for the treatment of gender dysphoria and lastly that I am not up to anything nefarious. It has my therapists contact information too in case someone wants to verify that the letter is valid.

I did not think this was done very much anymore.  Until now I've met exactly one person who had one--not that I usually ask people about that.  Thank you to everyone for making me a little bit smarter, more clever, and better looking.

[Jessica Merriman]

I'd need to see some legal info (like a citation to the authority that says so, or at least an article from a reputable source) before I could accept this as true.  I am a lawyer and I do follow the law in this area.  And although I certainly don't know everything, I am pretty confident that this is not true anywhere in the US or, indeed, the world. 

If a policeman were to conclude that a trans person using the restroom was an arrestable offense, then the carry letter does not immunize from that.  In a practical sense, it might be helpful in the ways others have identified.  For example, a commonly used charge for arresting trans* people in the bathroom is disorderly conduct.  I can see how a carry letter might help persuade a policeman that the person was either not being disorderly or was not meant to be disorderly.  I can also see how that might persuade the officer to drop the whole thing or let someone off with a warning.  If you did get arrested, it might even be evidence in your defense.  But if an officer really wanted to go ahead and arrest the person, they could do so, carry letter or not.  If a doctor orders a person to do something illegal, the doctors orders do not suddenly make it legal. 

Even if the law did require them to let a person with a carry letter alone, you wouldn't get a big check if they broke it.  You would get compensatory damages that might vary depending on how much you were actually damaged or they might be set by statute, if such a statute existed.  You might get some lost wages or some compensation for the distress of being arrested, but not a big payday.  Sorry.

I am a certified Police Officer in my state (Oklahoma). Trust me here they are valid as a medical prescription is. I will track down the state statute citation for you in a little while. The only thing they could arrest you for is a felony or misdemeanor not related to using the bathroom or locker facilities such as Battery, Stolen property, rape, murder, etc. O course the letter has to be witnessed and notarized to be a legal document, mine is.

[ThePhoenix]

I am a certified Police Officer in my state (Oklahoma). Trust me here they are valid as a medical prescription is. I will track down the state statute citation for you in a little while. The only thing they could arrest you for is a felony or misdemeanor not related to using the bathroom or locker facilities such as Battery, Stolen property, rape, murder, etc. O course the letter has to be witnessed and notarized to be a legal document, mine is.

If there really is such a statute, I'd really like to see it.  It would be very useful info.

[Just Shelly]

First off to the original OP....I think your concerns are natural....but not because of how you look but because its a new space and one that's a intimate place. I get no more the strange looks (my thoughts) now as I did the first time using one. In fact this is how it is everywhere...you will get strange looks everyday.....its life in general. If your getting more than 5 strange looks a day then you may have something to be concerned of...or it may be that its that kind of day.

Now....the carry letter is a joke in my belief!! I know I have a similar letter somewhere but just filed it away. I think if you are relying on a carry letter then you are rushing things to fast. Why carry around a letter when you can just change your name or DL....even if you can't get the right gender on your DL the name change will be sufficient enough to ward off any confusion.....but this is if only if you are confronted. That's the main question though....why would anybody be confronted for using the wrong restroom, even if they didn't appear 100% female. But I have seen quite a few trans that think this doesn't matter....they can use the women's room because "they have a letter" !!!

If you need a carry letter to use the women's room then maybe you should be using the unisex or the men's until its time you get strange looks using the men's room. I'm sorry but too many trans rush to use the women's room....just like many CD's do!!

I avoided using the restroom altogether until after I was basically kicked out of the men's room....this shouldn't mean that I could use the women's room if I had a carry letter...to me it means that I have to get more comfortable in a more intimate space. Once I finally used the women's room I didn't fear I would be caught using the wrong room because I was legally not the correct gender...I feared I would be talked too and not know what to say. Its a big difference....just as in life...you have to own who you are!!

I honestly think if more trans dealt with the bathroom situation the same as I and other women do, there would be less issues of people condemning trans for using the wrong bathroom. Too many trans view this as the holy grail of acceptance....I view it as cramming acceptance down peoples throats!!

Now a workplace restroom situation can be a different animal???

[ThePhoenix]

I honestly think if more trans dealt with the bathroom situation the same as I and other women do, there would be less issues of people condemning trans for using the wrong bathroom. Too many trans view this as the holy grail of acceptance....I view it as cramming acceptance down peoples throats!!

You're probably right.  But it is not feasible for everyone.  Your method seems to assume that everyone passes eventually.  Not everyone does.  But they've still got to take care of the basic biological function.  And the men's room is a very dangerous place for them.

I'm not sure the carry letter is a joke.  I agree that it seems to overvalued.  It is not a figurative or literal get out of jail free card.  But it seems to at least boost some people's confidence.  And it might help with giving explanations that might be a little awkward for the person.  Surely that's helpful, right?

[Missadventure]

I asked my doctor to write me a letter for use with the social security administration and the BMV for getting my gender markers changed, and he wrote me a carry letter instead. I didn't actually read it to discover that until I had gotten home (2 1/2 hours away)...

I haven't had need for it yet. Small town + big bladder = I always go home to use the restroom. But, I dunno. Reading this thing it really doesn't seem like a legal document at all. To me it reads like my doctor saying "dear random police officer. Please be nice to this person. She's a patient of mine". Also, I imagine it's a pain in the rear to actually carry. I mean, it's a full sized paper. It would be awesome to get it on something credit card sized so I can just put it in my wallet.

Also, I dunno. I feel like if a cop is going to be a jerk me having a doctors note wont stop him, and I can't imagine it carries a lot of weight in court, at least here, being that there are no state laws (to my knowledge) protecting trans rights. (there are a handful of cities with their own laws on the books. Mine doesn't, but the city across the river does)

[E-Brennan]

If there really is such a statute, I'd really like to see it.  It would be very useful info.

Lawyer here too.  I'd like to see it as well because I can't find it.

The "carry letter" has very little legal weight (as do doctor's orders in general, to be honest - they aren't judges, they aren't legislators, and they don't make the law regardless of what they might like to think).  In fact, I'd advise my clients that a carry letter has absolutely no legal weight absent statutes, regulations, or established legal precedent to the contrary.  If I can't show them a law on paper, then it's wise to tread very, very carefully.  The law is the law, and a doc or therapist can't exempt someone from complying with the law except in very few limited circumstances - an example being some states allowing drivers to not use a seatbelt if a doctor says that it will interfere with a medical condition.  (This goes for notarized documents too - the notarization process is only there to verify the signatures on the document, not to give the content of the document any legal force whatsoever.  I could get my shopping list notarized if I wanted to, and all the notary would be attesting to is that I was the person who signed it at the bottom of the page.  It wouldn't suddenly give me legal authority to go shopping.)

If you have to show a carry letter to someone - a cop, for instance - then something has gone very wrong long before that.  In many cases, and you all might not like to hear this, it's because you personally did things that escalated the situation.  Think about it.  If the cops are there, I would say it's already been a fifteen minute verbal confrontation with somebody about a frickin' toilet.  The cops don't just show up, and they aren't going to rush there with lights and sirens for this kind of issue either.

Me?  I'd strongly advise using the bathroom that most closely reflects your external gender presentation at that time, and if you're looking ambiguous or androgynous, use caution and find a bathroom more secluded or plan ahead accordingly.  And if confronted, back down.  Apologize, explain, then leave.  (Unless you're an activist trying to push boundaries - but most of us aren't.) 

But in jurisdictions where a "carry letter" is actually defined - if there are any - then that'll help.  It won't stop the underlying problem though, which is people getting offended and feeling threatened or violated because they perceive someone unauthorized intruding into their private space.

[Ms Grace]

I used the women's rest room in a large theatre for the first time as Grace the other night (I remember using them when I was Julie, but nothing as large as this one). Remarkably I felt utterly relaxed and walked past a couple of women. Neither of them looked twice. In part they were too busy having a conversation with some gal pals who were in the stalls on the can. Any type of chatting between guys at a urinal is generally seen a weird and inappropriate, the fact that women do this so casually was kind or remarkable to me!

Anyway, can I add it was refreshing to walk into a large rest room and not see a row of men pissing against the wall!