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Should I mention being transsexual on graduate application

Started by MikeG500, February 24, 2014, 12:53:51 AM

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MikeG500

Well basically, I am completely stealth in all aspects of my life, work, and school. I'm 22. I am about to graduate with a bachelors in mechanical engineering next year and am thinking about grad schools. I am not going to a well known undergrad school so I am thinking of things that could make me stand out. I have never once brought up being a transsexual man in any academic or job setting. I want to apply to some top schools such as Boston University, Berkeley, Caltech, etc to get my masters in mechanical or control systems engineering. My odds seem low because I am not attending a well known school so I was thinking maybe adding in the essay something about being transsexual and overcoming odds and all that kind of stuff could somehow help me. It could also hurt me. I am unsure of what to do. I have never done this before, and i'm not really sure i'd want to out myself like that. BUT If it helps me stand out, at least I could use it in some type of positive way. Anyone have any advice on the matter? Thanks

-Mike
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Kaitlin4475

Ya know in this day and age I do t think it would hurt.. It would be a huge weight off your shoulders but of course you are stealth, so could this haunt you later... If it was me I would because I couldn't ever live a stealth life. I want to be a trans advocate! And as for control engineering hot damn that i$$$ a good job. I want to be a network engineer so I will be pursuing schooling later this year
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tgchar21

If you'd prefer to get the proverbial weight off your shoulders like pp said, then go ahead and bring up your trans* status; but if you'd prefer to assimilate and not be out with your past then go ahead and don't mention it.

Note that this assumes any records you'd need to submit or they'd check are all under your post-transition name and gender - as with applying for a job if any of them aren't changed you'd need to out yourself.
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Michelle123

I would wait until the interview myself.  That way, they can see how well you pass and make an informed decision about the issue. 
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GnomeKid

hmm I went to a no-name state school and applied to grad programs in theatre (at art schools no less) and I didn't feel it necessary to mention I was trans.  I'm also not stealth, and not afraid of anyone knowing I'm trans. 

Maybe I should have?  Either way I got in, but maybe I'd have gotten more scholarship money or something?  who can say.

If you want to try to use it to your advantage I say f-ck yea.. Go for it, but its often hard to tell if it will be seen as good, bad, or indifferent.  Without seeing the people or knowing their process and criteria its a hard bet to make that the results would be positive. 
I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

"Oh what a cute little girl, or boy if you grow up and feel thats whats inside you" - Liz Lemon

Happy to be queer!    ;)
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Arch

Are you talking about Cal Berkeley? That's a very progressive school, and the whole UC system is very trans-friendly.

I was pre-transition, but I opened my grad school personal statement with a trans-related story from my childhood and wrote about being male-identified. In my case, it was relevant because I intended to do grad research in trans studies, gay studies, or intersections of the two. But I expect that it also made me stand out quite a bit. My cohort was pretty queer--at least twenty percent of the incoming MA class was LGBT--but T was pretty rare, and a trans man wanting to study homosocial topics must have seemed pretty interesting. I guess I was a good fit.

Nowadays, I wouldn't do it because I am stealth, but I'm not at the beginning of my grad career, either. You do what you need to do to stand out...but it can work against you.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Catherine Sarah

Hi Mike,

It's a known fact, in the process of transitioning, we all have the answers deep down inside. With proper guidance and reaching down deep within ourselves, you can find your answer.

Quote from: MikeyG500 on February 24, 2014, 12:53:51 AM
........... so I am thinking of things that could make me stand out.

Think about something you fully understand about the course you're considering, will probably be more relevant.

Quote from: MikeyG500 on February 24, 2014, 12:53:51 AM
I have never once brought up being a transsexual man in any academic or job setting.

You display such wisdom. As oil and water don't mix, neither does your gender and study/employment.

Quote from: MikeyG500 on February 24, 2014, 12:53:51 AM
..........  so I was thinking maybe adding in the essay something about being transsexual and overcoming odds and all that kind of stuff could somehow help me. It could also hurt me.

Again, a very wise conclusion. Why would you want to deliberately jeopardise your study AND future employment. You need a good job to pay for your transition.

Quote from: MikeyG500 on February 24, 2014, 12:53:51 AM
.........  and i'm not really sure i'd want to out myself like that. ............... BUT If it helps me stand out, at least I could use it in some type of positive way.

Further wisdom yet again. Even if YOU take a positive spin, doesn't mean whoever is reviewing your application is going to. They may take the opposite.

Huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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JennX

Don't do it. Your admission to grad school has zero to do with your gender identity and/or sexual preference. Focus on your future, not your past.
"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain."
-Dolly Parton
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missy1992

Quote from: JennX on February 24, 2014, 08:34:27 PM
Don't do it. Your admission to grad school has zero to do with your gender identity and/or sexual preference. Focus on your future, not your past.
My feelings exactly.
If your going to mention being trans it should be used to explain perhaps a low GPA (extenuating circumstances) or something like that. I know I just applied to a prestigious university and mentioned it in my application to explain a few lower marks (I was depressed from my dysphoria). I never mentioned being trans in my other two university applications however.
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MikeG500

Thanks everyone for the thorough replies!
Catherine: You have made me see I have answered some of my own questions! Aha, but really that does help me analyze what I really should do.
JennX and Missy, I agree that it has zero to do with my gender identity, and that is how I live my life, but I have just been pondering the thought of using this fact about myself that mostly causes anguish in a way that could benefit me. After thinking about it more, I do agree that since I am going for engineering, it would probably not help much if at all and could possibly hurt me.
And yes Arch, Cal Berkeley.
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michelle

I feel that you should think about what your discission would mean to your life five years from now.   Will you be still hiding your gender identity and pretending that you are some one you are not.   You are at a transition point in your life.    You are writing your life's story when you make your decisions.   If it is possible for you to start legally putting in to your official history your chosen name and your gender identity, you may be able to graduate from graduate school and gain employment as who you really are.   I really don't know how coming out will affect your gaining entrance into graduate school and getting a job afterwards.   But what I do know that finally acknowledging to myself that I was really a woman at 53 years old that up to that time my life's history had stamped me as a male.   All of my educational history from kindergarten to my Master's degree has male stamped all over it.   I had 25 years of teaching heaven knows how many children with a male's gender identification stamped all over it.   I had been married for 25 years and fathered 5 children,  four of them adults, who had only known me in my male identity.   On the job for the next eleven years I taught still taught school with a male identity while in my home life with my immediate family I presented myself as my female self.   It wasn't until the last year or two that I changed my Facebook identification to female,  my name to Michelle (Mike) H........, and posted a picture of myself as my female self.   I was out to all of my children, old friends, and students, many of which had been my kid's personal friends,  and had been in my family home many times.   I dress as you see in my picture when I go to my present children's school dressed like you see in my profile picture.   

With all of this history, plus the fact that male hormones have left my physical characteristics with male characteristics, I have to accept that no matter whatever changes I make to my body,  I am out as a trans woman.  I will never expect to pass as a cis woman, because too many people know my history.    I have 67 years as a legal labeled male, to have everything changed to female, even if I take hormones, have surgery, and have all my current legal documents changed.

My point being,  that if coming out to your graduate school means that you can't get into any school or permanently damages your chances to get a job in your chosen field,  then for survival purpose, there is a good argument for you staying in the closet.   On the other hand balance it with the fact that every day you are in the closet you create more of a history as a person you aren't, and it makes it harder to change and disappear into the your the gender that you really are.    Either way its a gamble.   If you are extremely talented in your chosen field its highly likely that there are employer's in your field that will find you indispensable and coming out on the job will just be a convenience.    However,  if there are lots and lots of competition for each job in your chosen field,  getting your first job and keeping it may be difficult if your employer becomes aware that your transgender, and you will be stuck in the closet for years or unemployable.

Only you know, what your own personal emotional needs are.   If you can't live with staying in the closet for years, then it is better to deal with it now and find a graduate school and a profession where being a transgender is not a problem.    However if you can stand living in the closet the next 5 to 10 years because that is probably how long it will take for you to become established in your field and gain enough credit with your employer's that your being transgender is not an issue for them, then stay in the closet.

I really can't make your discission for you.  I know that for myself, I was thirteen, when I first realized that I identified more with being a female, then I did with being a male.   Because at that age and at that time, 1959, I saw no way of transitioning to my female self and surviving to old age, I discided to put it off until I was much older.  When I was older,  I realized that yes trying to be a male all these years did insure that I had an income on Social Security that was livable and could then transition with an income, I had sacrificed 40 years of living as my female self.  I had lost the chance to a body that was more naturally female because I had not taken female hormones when I was young and male hormones had damaged my female body.   I had lost my chance to pass as a woman with anybody ever suspecting that I had been born with a male body.    For practical purposes I will be accepted as a trans female, or at the very least as a male who cross dresses 24/7/366, leap year.    I just keep being my female self, and hope that other's will give up with their insistence that I can never be a true female.

Whatever your chose is, there are no wrong choices, only choices we can live with, and choices we can't live with.  When we can't live with our choices, then we modify it somehow, so that we can deal with it.   I just came to the point in my life when I had to accept that I was not a man and had never been one, and I had to give it up and be my female self, and accept the consequences of waiting to long.   It really doesn't matter what others think about me, because I can't change that.    For me the worst thing for me to do was to try and hide my female self period.  I had to be my female self even when it might be awkward for myself and the people around me.    No one has threatened my life or shown any visible anger,  though, I find that am not crowded on the city buses I ride because because people chose not to take the empty seat next to me except when the bus is crowded.   This works for me.
Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
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MikeG500

Quote from: michelle on February 25, 2014, 12:31:57 AM
I feel that you should think about what your discission would mean to your life five years from now.   Will you be still hiding your gender identity and pretending that you are some one you are not.   You are at a transition point in your life.   

Only you know, what your own personal emotional needs are.   If you can't live with staying in the closet for years, then it is better to deal with it now and find a graduate school and a profession where being a transgender is not a problem.    However if you can stand living in the closet the next 5 to 10 years because that is probably how long it will take for you to become established in your field and gain enough credit with your employer's that your being transgender is not an issue for them, then stay in the closet.


Thank  you for your thoughts Michelle. I have a question because I am unsure what you mean about hiding your identity and pretending you are someone you are not. I am unsure if you are aware that I meant I am a transsexual man who has already physically transitioned and all my college documents, state ID, passport, etc, have male identity. The earliest that would contradict that would probably be the first community college I went to a few years ago, but that really isn't brought up anymore since all of my engineering school records are at my current university all with male identification. The only surgery I haven't had is "bottom surgery" and that is only because I can't afford it right now. I "pass" 100% all the time.

So I would say that I don't think if I were to not disclose that I am transsexual I would not be pretending i'm someone i'm not (Since I know I am  male, just born a little different unfortunately).

Mainly the reason I asked about disclosing was to write a very inspiration graduate admission essay, and it could possibly help stand out over the many other applicants. I've pretty much come to the conclusion though that it's probably not what I will do, thanks to all the input i've gotten.
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michelle

Sorry I misread your situation.   If you have already transitioned, I see no reason to bring up your past, just live in your present.   Bringing up your past unnecessarily just keeps it alive.   There will probably be competition for any job you apply for in the future.    The company personal director will be looking for excuses for eliminating people from the list of applicants.   Keeping your history alive as a transgender may just give the company a reason not to consider you for a job.   There is only a limited chance that bringing up that you are transgender will put you in the considered for a job list in lots of companies.

When I share my experiences I just try and point out the different sides of my decisions in life,  all of which have their positives and their regrets.    I don't see right and wrong when it comes to decisions in life, because it really comes down to the consequences in our own personal lives that result from these decisions.    We all occupy differing locations in the matrixes of life and these locations on the matrix change with time and circumstances, so that the consequences that come from my decisions are rarely the same as the consequences others have in their lives even if we make similar decisions.   

In my life many of my decisions were based upon me trying to avoid and or minimize conflicts, hassles, and stresses in my life, and to reach my golden years in a more settled state of being.   Looking just at this life's goal and not considering any other parts of the life I have that I would not want to change or disappear which they would have had I transitioned as a teenager or the beginnings of my adulthood,  I feel that had started my transition to womanhood at 13 or 20 my life would have reached the same point as it did when I did begin my transition at 53.   Not transitioning did not reduce the conflicts, hassles, and stresses in my life,  nor did it protect me from the failings in my personal relationships and my inability in dealing with other people,  that eventually occurred.   I just lost all of those years that I could have lived as my female self and yes I might have evolved in such away as to have had better and more relaxed relationships with others, and if not that part of my life would not have been any worse.

However, if I had of transitioned,  my children and grand children would not have existed, and I wouldn't want that.    But emotionally and physically, they live on the other side of the continent from me, and I am as distant from them as if they did not really exist.   But I do have many good memories of the times we spent together.   

I have just come to realize,  that I did not take care of myself in my life's decisions and my personal powersharing with others,  I sacrificed too much, and giving and sharing too much of the power financially and emotionally with others is just as bad as being too selfish and not sharing at all.   When you give too much, many others take advantage of you.   They don't want to share with you their power of their finances and emotions, and expect to make all of the decisions over mine.   So in my live control becomes Ours and theirs, and they control both.   Then, I have to battle and create a storm over having anything for myself, even a share in the decisions.

But if I cannot take care of myself,  I can't take care of others.   Therefore, I have to become more forceful and asserting that, it is my decision, and mine alone over how fast and when I take the step in transitioning.   I have the right to spend a reasonable amount of my money on counselling and hormones,  as my partner does on things she thinks is important for her to have.  We will be together or we won't and my giving up any more of my life won't change this outcome.   It didn't the last time.      We can't avoid the outcomes in our lives, by voiding ourselves.   Outcomes happen anyway.

Sorry,  when I get into replying, to others, I sometimes get too personal in my thinking,  I just hope that something I say strikes a chord with others, and helps them out in some manner.   

Sorry again that I misread your situation.   
Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
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Arch

Mikey, make sure you have altered your name and sex marker on all college records, including community college records. I was required to submit transcripts of ALL college work with my grad school app, and I had to do the same with any academic jobs I applied for. Even if you don't need to supply such records in your particular case, it's best to be safe.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Arch

Quote from: Michelle123 on February 24, 2014, 11:39:32 AM
I would wait until the interview myself.  That way, they can see how well you pass and make an informed decision about the issue.

I've never heard of an interview at the master's level...maybe some PhD programs will do that, but I've never heard of any (not that I'm a great authority on all PhD programs). Maybe you're thinking professional school? Do med and law schools conduct in-person interviews?
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Nero

Quote from: MikeyG500 on February 24, 2014, 11:54:40 PM
After thinking about it more, I do agree that since I am going for engineering, it would probably not help much if at all and could possibly hurt me.


So you will be applying as male? I wonder if mentioning being trans could help because it's engineering - for diversity reasons. Most in that field are probably the average cis male.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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MikeG500

Michelle, no problem for not being clear about my situation! It's good to process our thoughts and lives!


Quote from: Arch on February 25, 2014, 10:52:25 AM
Mikey, make sure you have altered your name and sex marker on all college records, including community college records. I was required to submit transcripts of ALL college work with my grad school app, and I had to do the same with any academic jobs I applied for. Even if you don't need to supply such records in your particular case, it's best to be safe.

Arch, how do you go about changing sex and name markers on records such as old community college or high school? I Still have to give my university my high school record because of taking two years of language. If you could share how you did that, i'd really appreciate it.


Quote from: FA on February 25, 2014, 11:10:00 AM
So you will be applying as male? I wonder if mentioning being trans could help because it's engineering - for diversity reasons. Most in that field are probably the average cis male.

I've never considered not applying as male. I was just thinking of writing something about my transsexual history in my grad application essay for a reason to stand out or diversity factors. Like you said, most in the field are average cis male so I was thinking it could help possibly. But I've gotten a lot of feedback that made me think twice about it.
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Thylacin

Being trans doesn't seem to have anything to do with applying for grad school, so I would leave it out. It's not something that you should have to disclose so it doesn't come up later either, because it shouldn't factor into anyone's decision at any point.
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GnomeKid

Quote from: Arch on February 25, 2014, 10:54:54 AM
I've never heard of an interview at the master's level...maybe some PhD programs will do that, but I've never heard of any (not that I'm a great authority on all PhD programs). Maybe you're thinking professional school? Do med and law schools conduct in-person interviews?

I had an interview for an MFA program in Theatre at a Maryland state school.  I wouldn't say its too much of a stretch for any variety of program to have an interview process.
I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

"Oh what a cute little girl, or boy if you grow up and feel thats whats inside you" - Liz Lemon

Happy to be queer!    ;)
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tgchar21

Quote from: MikeyG500 on February 25, 2014, 12:13:23 PMArch, how do you go about changing sex and name markers on records such as old community college or high school? I Still have to give my university my high school record because of taking two years of language. If you could share how you did that, i'd really appreciate it.

Since I'm the other one who brought up this possible issue, I'll answer it. Your best bet is to visit the school's website and/or contact the registrar to see if the school will let you change your records and if so what you need to do. Unfortunately not all schools will change a past student's record upon request (some argue that FERPA would require them to*, but that would require a court case to test), so if a school won't change your records and you need to submit a record from there when applying you will have to explain the name/gender change. *Assuming it's a public and/or non-religion-based institution. FERPA only applies to schools that get federal funding, and religious schools can use the First Amendment as a justification not to be bound by laws that secular institutions are.

A tip I heard from someone (non-trans-related, but not for marriage) looking to change the name (particularly for K-12 public school records) is to present your new/amended birth certificate (and not just the court order or surgeon's letter). Many primary and secondary schools have a policy that a student's name must match what is shown on the birth certificate, and if you've changed that you may have more leverage to get your record updated.
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