Gay prejudges against transgender

[Godiva]

Can someone tell me where we are on this issue today? Thanks.

Godiva


TRANSGENDER ACTIVISTS SEEK ALLIES AMONG OFTEN-RELUCTANT LESBIANS AND GAY MEN

It happened every time Jamison "James" Green tried to enter a lesbian bar in the '70s and '80s. The bouncer would try to stop him from entering because of the way he looked. "This is a women-only bar," the bouncer would protest.

"Do you want me to show you my tits?" Green would respond.

Only after the bouncer engaged in a brief and hushed huddle with a manager would Green eventually be admitted to the bar.

For 22 years Green had sex with women and identified as a lesbian. "But [the discrimination] wasn't about whom I was sleeping with, it was about my exterior gender traits. Being challenged like that was painful," he recalls.

But once inside the bar, Green was still uncomfortable. "I felt left out in women-only spaces," he says. "The fact is, I was more male than female."

Although born with a female anatomy, Green felt like a man. In 1988 he began medical treatment to transition from female to male. Today the 50-year-old writer is president of the San Francisco-based organization Female-to-Male International. "My orientation is still toward women, so today I'm heterosexual," he says. "But I still consider myself part of the queer community."

However, many gay men and lesbians don't consider Green and others like him, referred to as transgendered
1. Appearing as or having undergone surgery to become a member of the opposite sex.
2. Of or relating to a transgendered person or transgendered people., or transsexual
1. A person with the external genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics of one sex, but whose personal identification and psychosocial configuration is that of the opposite sex.
2. A person who has undergone a sex change.
adj.
1. Of or relating to such a person.
2., to be part of their political and social movement. Those skeptics look on transgendered people as part of the fringe, oddities who are a potential embarrassment to the push for mainstream acceptance. Only in the past few years have transgendered people begun winning acceptance as part of a larger alliance of gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. And while many gay and lesbian political organizations on both the local and national levels now officially recognize transgendered people in their mission statements, an often-divisive debate continues around the question of how closely connected the gay and lesbian movement and the transgender movement are and should be.

[Shana A]

I live in a rural area, so don't know if things have changed in places like NYC or San Francisco. Here on this board I've noticed significant reluctance among many (not all) trans people to associate with GLBT, stating that our needs are different. This attitude hasn't helped us gain allies in the queer community. I believe LGBTIQetc need to work together to attain equality for all people, hate, discrimination and oppression affects all of us.

zythyra

[Hazumu]

 I attended a focus group recently.  A group called Breaking Barriers wanted to add services for the TG community.  They already provided services to the Gay/Lesbian community.  And in fact the focus group was conducted by two guys who introduced themselves as Gay.

They invited TG as well as crossdressers and drag queens. (Yes, I know crossdressers fit under the TG umbrella.  My point is, they didn't understand what the distinction was.

I wish I'd kept the list of 16 questions/topics we discussed.  It contained a whole host of misconceptions.

There was a semi-professional drag queen who challenged their misconception that being in drag led to an increase in sexual contact and especially in risky sexual behaviour.  The t-guys (2) and t-women (3) got the point across that we were NOT doing this for sexual purposes.

And the night went on...

At the end, the facilitator admitted that he had learned a LOT, and that he and his organization had many misconceptions of what trans was all about.

Yes, there are pre-judgements out there...

Karen

[ellen b]

I never used to (in years gone by) understand why I wasn't accepted by gay men more than I was, but put it together over time. I never was a gay man, so they couldn't relate to me except possibly in brief encounters. Being born with a male body, wanting to be female, sexually attracted to males = confusion on many people's part. Basically, I wanted to always be with a straight guy in a genuine relationship, but that wasn't going to happen, now was it!

[LostInTime]

Where I live, the GLB community only gives a minor bit of lip service for T individuals. Many that I have talked with simply do not know the variances under the TG umbrella and do not care to at all. I ignore them and try to have a good time with those who are more open minded.

Oh the local equality group does actually listen to and has actively supported the T community. Every so often I will even go in and do some volunteer work.

[gothique11]

GL subscript B and sometimes T for lip service. That's what it's like in a lot of places.

[Hypatia]

I have been involved with LGBT activist groups for almost two years, and everyone I have worked with has not only been welcoming to trans people, they have been pushing for trans issues along with gay & lesbian issues and including trans equality on the agenda. I have no complaints toward any of the gay & lesbian groups I have personally been in contact with. I perceive a refreshing new spirit of inclusion for transgender these days. In fact, I went to a meeting of Equality Virginia last year, hosted by the Arlington Gay & Lesbian Association, and they were expressing happiness that they had us trans people finally joining in. HRC, which used to discriminate against trans equality, has reversed itself and is now pushing for transgender rights along with gay & lesbian rights. I live in the Washington DC area, if that makes any difference. I don't know if the recent positive developments I've noticed are happening in other parts of the country. Apparently may timing was good, I began showing up when attitudes had changed for the better, because I don't feel I've ever been discriminated against as a trans person. They want us now.

I think we can trace the new spirit of inclusion to an organization called the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, which has been working at persuading other gay activists to treat us as equals. They withdrew support for ENDA until Barney Frank agreed to fight for transgender protection along with gay. I think credit should go to NGLTF for this.

A couple of my gay friends told me that they feel gay identity has become so bland and normal, assimilated into mainstream American life, they miss the radical activism they used to enjoy -- and now they look to transgender as the up-and-coming radical scene. This is being talked about all over: Is Transgender the New Gay?

[Shana A]

now they look to transgender as the up-and-coming radical scene. This is being talked about all over: Is Transgender the New Gay?

Alright! Our 15 minutes of fame 

zythyra

[louise000]

now they look to transgender as the up-and-coming radical scene. This is being talked about all over: Is Transgender the New Gay?

Alright! Our 15 minutes of fame 

zythyra

I'd like to think that was true. Gays are more and more accepted these days, even in the parochial and narrow minded patch of earth where I live, and it would be nice to think that transgendered individuals will eventually gain at least some acceptance in the world at large.
Louise

[katia]

i'm a lesbian transsexual, and i'm in a relationship with a M2F transsexual. All of my gay and lesbian friends have been very accepting and supportive. i've found that generally acceptance is pretty common, but like any community, there is some small-mindedness ( i.e. there are a few who seem to take issue with transsexuals, or with my partner and i considering ourselves to be lesbians) yet,  i agree with you, i find it very hypocritical. homosexuality challenges gender roles in many ways, and to be a homosexual and criticize transsexuals for their gender identity is rather backwards in terms of logic. it supports the notion that there is only one [real] way to be a man or woman, and that gender roles should be fixed as opposed to fluid, a notion that homosexuals have always challenged.

[Thundra]

And now for something completely different.

You didn't think I could leave this one alone, did you?   >

Here is my POV. If you identify as a str8 person, you are not part of my group. I am queer.
I will treat you with the same respect that I do all other humans, but you are not "family" to me.

If you identify as queer, or G,L,B, or T, regardless of anything else, you are my family. We have a common bond.

I only take issue with people that claim to be under the queer or GLBT umbrella, who then run away from anything queer when questioned about it in public or in mixed str8/queer company. If you are a str8 woman for instance, in my opinion, you are not queer. You are not GLB or T. You are a heterosexual person, and you should go and live your life among the hets. Nothing wrong with visiting, but you don't live in queertown.

I think that especially, there is a LOT of misinformation and angst between the lesbian community and men that have transitioned. Lesbians are like, we helped you raise money to get your top surgery. We helped and supported you in your transition. Now you pass, so why are you still here? Go hang out with guys.

I myself occupy a pretty weird niche in that community. People knew me as someone that was experimenting, and then said uh-uh. I wonder how many other people have done that?
It confuses people, because they don't know what to think of you. They don't know where you stand. I know that for a lot of people it goes directly to the marriage question. If you take advatage of the laws to get married, when they are not legally able, and they are going to resent you for that. It's human nature.

I guess that the bottom line is that we are are only part of a group if we are asked to be part of that group. It doesn't matter how nice or good a person you are, if people don't want you around them, that is their perogative. Nobody has the right to refuse you public accomodation, but that does not include forcing them to accept you in a social setting.

[katia]

And now for something completely different.

You didn't think I could leave this one alone, did you?   >

before i read your post, allow me to place my cursor on the smite button just in case...only a click away.. >

[Rachael]

At my university, the LGBT was LGB till recently, and looked after T people in thier charter, unofficially, i came along, and pushed fot T acceptace, it was added in a union wide debate. (passed unanimously) and im now the LGBT committee's Trans wellfare officer. (and currently only trans person) But everyone is very accepting, (cept one lesbian whos left) People see me as a person, although im lumped with the Lesbians and bi girls when people try to mentally separeate the group into L G B and T... must wear a ballgown more often...

[Thundra]

before i read your post, allow me to place my cursor on the smite button just in case...only a click away..

Now, now!  You know how I feel about this grrrrl.

I take people at their own word. If they define themselves queer, fine. Str8, fine. But with me, you don't get to have it both ways.

[Hypatia]

Thundra, you remind me:

Once I was in a women's circle for queer women only. It was a beautiful, fulfilling experience, where I felt completely accepted and my womanhood was affirmed by other women. I was the only trans, everyone else being genetic women. At one point, another trans girl came in. She had Klinefelter's, looked like a supermodel, and was worried she could not pass as a boy enough to be allowed on the plane back home because her passport had "M" on it. We shared a room in the hotel and she was always on the phone to her boyfriend.

Anyway we were in the circle and I said something about trans being one form of queer. She objected: "I'm not queer. I'm a heterosexual trans woman." Then she left the circle and didn't come back.

[Thundra]

Anyway we were in the circle and I said something about trans being one form of queer. She objected: "I'm not queer. I'm a heterosexual trans woman." Then she left the circle and didn't come back.

I guess that she must have seen herself as a str8 woman supporting queer folk? But if that was the case, she should have voiced that POV. There are places where disparate groups of people that would normally not associate together can gather and exchange ideas and information. A queer woman's circle is probably not the best of places to seek that kind of affirmation.

[Rachael]

yeah, to me, im not queer,  but hey, offtopic go!