Primary and secondary

[Rachael]

i dont think anyones deneying right to transition based on anything....


but i dont think primary or secondery suggests any is more suitable, GID at the end of the day can be as torturous, and worse so if it sneaks up on one i suppose...

[Rachael]

heh, maybe im just crackers.... and was too downtrodden to know or care...

[Rachael]

i totally agree. some folk still want to cling to an ideal that they feel makes them more valid.

[Sarah Louise]

I seem to remember you giving your age once and if I was really dedicated, I could try reading through all 5,800+ plus messages and find it.  I am not that dedicated, I am 99% sure I am older than you though.

I do understand what you are trying to convey though and agree with your message.

If I was smart I would just avoid reading this thread but then whoever said I was smart.


Sarah L.

[Melissa]

Just for reference, I don't cleanly fit either one myself.  I have some attributes of both of your definitions.

• I didn't attempt to appear as a female in public until I was 28.
• Since I was 5 I tried dressing as a female in private.
• I thought boys and girls were the same until about age 7.
• I was a very emotional child and was constantly getting my sensitive feeling stepped on by boys.
• I knew I was mentally a female by 13, but physically male.
• I expressed this to my wife about it when I was 19 and she was the first person I ever told.
• My parent were extremely religious and influenced me a lot.  I knew the family would never understand.  To this day, they are still the most antagonistic people in my transition, so my fears were well grounded.
• Although I didn't know exactly what I was looking for at the time, I wanted to find some way to be female when I was a teenager.
• I prayed to "grow" a vagina and I even thought that if I put enough mental energy into it, my body might actually grow one.
• I had quite an imagination, so discovering real magic was considered a viable option.
• Was mostly attracted to women growing up.  Once an adult, I also found a few men attractive, but I *never* shared that.  In fact most men repulsed me and the thought of "being" with them scared me enough to continue trying to live in the role I was born into.  The thought of being seen as a gay man scared me badly.
• I did not know transition was possible until I was 28.  I tried doing the only thing I knew how to do until that point--distracting myself.
• I found out about transition because the dysphoria had become so intense, I could not function until I dealt with the problem.
• I am a highly adaptable person and can acclimate to most situations.  That's how I survived the male role, but it definitely wasn't something I liked being in.
• Most of my friends were male.  I did play with my sister and her friends a lot though.
• I had trouble in school, but other problems I had could have contributed to this.
• Although I got along with most people, I had very few close friends.  I spent a lot of time alone by myself.
• I found enough of an equilibrium in the male role to get by, but I never "liked" it.
• I had effeminate behaviors throughout my life, but I didn't get any flak for it.
• I played with both male and female type toys, but still generally preferred male toys.

Yes I had GID, but it didn't become "unrelenting and intense" until I went through puberty, although I did show signs since I was 5.
I was mostly attracted to people the opposite of my birth sex.
I mostly adapted to my birth sex, but I could not hide my true gender expression--at least from peers.
I did not attempt to "assume the role" or take hormones before age 25.

So Nero, just out of curiosity, what would that make me? >

[Jeannette]

Well, I don't fit the 'classic' definition of a Primary.

eeeeeeeekk Makes sense twelve pages into a topic thread   Reminds of the
East-German lad that after fighting fierlessly for his ideas.  He remembered  he'd helped build the Berlin wall.

[Melissa]

Well, I don't fit the 'classic' definition of a Primary.
[...]
I do however fit my own though.

Ohhhh, so we're making up our own definitions now? >  Hmmm, well according to my "own criteria", that makes me.....a woman! > > >

[Rachael]

wow, what happened to discussing the definitions and thier aplicability? why has this turned into the 'am i a primary plz???' thread?

[Maud]

It's insanity.

nero: why do you care? do you want a blue peter badge? do you want sympathy? or are you just making excuses when it comes down to it?

[Rachael]

* Rachael reattaches mauds leash

[LostInTime]

Locked for a bit to let tempers cool.

[Melissa]

Well, I don't fit the 'classic' definition of a Primary.
[...]
I do however fit my own though.

Ohhhh, so we're making up our own definitions now? >  Hmmm, well according to my "own criteria", that makes me.....a woman! > > >

Not really. All I took out of the 'classic' definition is the hetero requirement.

Mentally, I never "adapted", but I was able to appear as male to most people (with a few exceptions like my ex-stepson who saw right through my facade).  That's what I meant by adapting.  It basically was treading the gender line as close as possible, while still pretending to be male.  Almost all of my activities were gender neutral...well, let's just say I never acted like a typical male, just a very feminine one, which got me by.

Posted on: July 20, 2007, 09:50:28 AMHere's an excellent article regarding the topic of the original post.  Most of what I have mentioned was covered, but it goes into far more detail.  One of the main reasons the terms are not used anymore is because people's opinion of what classifies one as primary and secondary differ so much as Nero has demonstrated in this thread.

http://www.avitale.com/PrimarySecondary.htm

[Kimberly]

Nero,
If I may?

C. Barely Secondary YOU

To me, as I was similar to Melissa but less girlie, this is like, as you said,

some TS who are clearly Secondaries claiming to be more trans than me, more male than me, etc. And claiming to be primary solely based on the fact they're in their 20s. And dismissing what I went through. I just feel like if you were a clear 'girl' up until transition, you've no business going there, you know?

You nor anyone else here know what I went though nor the justification I used for my action, nor and more to the point how bloody much life hurt.


Or in fewer words, being indirectly called "Barely Secondary" HURTS.

...

I would advise that we all remember that very few of us here at this place have had an easy, pleasant life.  In my opinion, in the end classifications mean nothing. I am female born in a boy body, anything else is just needless details.


For what my thoughts are worth,
Sand in the wind...

[Manyfaces]

Nero, I hope you feel better soon; being sick skews everything.  This has been an interesting if somewhat stressful thread to read; your threads are always that way, and I for one appreciate that.

Big ol' boy hug.......

Rob

[Rachael]

Nero, im on your side here...  i think people are getting too pissy about words... and they should look inside them to see what at the end of the day, a few words on the internet mean and if thier really so traumatiseingly offensive...

[Steph]

And with that last post this topic is locked.  "ONLY" Susan or Admins will unlock it.

Steph