I keep thinking 23 is too late to transition.

[piglet smith]

While it is kind of old, it could still be very well worth it to transition at that age.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

While it is kind of old, it could still be very well worth it to transition at that age.

Seriously?

"Kind of old"

Really?

[piglet smith]

Seriously?

"Kind of old"

Really?

Hey, I'm just trying to be helpful without being too confrontational and contradictory to their own feelings and thoughts.


And really why doesn't your porcupine have quills?

[Nero]

Annaiyah,

I think you may be worrying for nothing. I'm not even sure how much the pelvic bone would change if you started in your teens. (I tried looking it up, but wasn't able to find a definitive answer) I don't know about breasts either. There's no guarantee your pelvis and breasts would be different or to what extent they'd be different if you started earlier. Even if it happened to someone else, everybody develops differently. Not every woman has what they call the 'gynecoid pelvis'. Here are some female pelvis shapes:

Some women require C sections because of their pelvis. So yeah, no guarantee how feminine your pelvis would be even if you were cis.

Not mention that as has been mentioned up top, even if you'd come out to your folks as a kid, it may still have not been in your hands. Your folks may not have allowed it. Even so, blockers are prohibitively expensive to many families. Or there may have been other obstacles. So could be nothing to regret. It may not have helped.

I think you still have a chance for decent breast growth to not need implants. And hopefully decent fat redistribution on your hips and backside (as has been mentioned, that's a lot of the female hip look). 23 is very young to transition!

[Carrie Liz]

Give me a break. 18-20 is the age that most of the most beautiful trans women on the planet transitioned. And every single real-life trans girl I've met under the age of 35 has gotten fantastic results and were close to completely passable. (With the exception of their voices sometimes.) You're only a few years older than that. You're at a stage that most trans women WISH they could have transitioned at.

23 is a freaking spring chicken. You still have a young face ripe to have its youthful features feminized, in the prime of life for the rapid muscle and skin renewal that feminizes the body and gives you curves, probably have next to no hairline recession, and probably no serious family commitments or long-term work prospects to worry about transition destroying.

You are NOT too old. If I knew you in real life, being 23 would officially make you the 2nd youngest trans person I'd ever met. Most of my closest friends transitioned in their late 20s or early 30s, with a vast majority of the trans women at my local support group being middle-aged.

No, you are not going to get the wide pelvis that cis-women get at puberty. But what are you trying to get out of transition? If your goal is to live up to some ideal standard of beauty, then sorry, it's probably not going to happen. Like it or not, we never will live up to our cis-standard selves that would have been had we been able to go through the right puberty at the right time. (Granted, it's quite possible that you wouldn't have gotten that anyway, even if you did go through the "right" puberty. You never know. There's a reason why lots of women have body-image issues.) But if your goal is to be female, and to be completely socially accepted as female by everyone, then it's NEVER too late. And the success rate in that department is astronomical for those who transition in their 20s.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

Hey, I'm just trying to be helpful without being too confrontational and contradictory to their own feelings and thoughts.


And really why doesn't your porcupine have quills?

I just don't get that whole mentality of "unless I absolutely do this when I am super young, I'm screwed".

Sorry, I just don't buy that.

Sometimes, you need to shake things up so people will begin to think with a bit of common sense instead of following some blind type of thinking such as what I just mentioned. All that leads to is regret and wasted time lamenting what you did or didn't do. As others have said here, there have been plenty of people that transitioned much later and turned out fine.

Also, if someone has their "feelings hurt" over someone telling them something that is helpful but may not be exactly what they want to hear, then that person needs to develop a thicker skin.

Also, the one in the avatar is a squirrel and not a porcupine.

[Julia-Madrid]

I just don't get that whole mentality of "unless I absolutely do this when I am super young, I'm screwed".

Sorry, I just don't buy that.

I so totally agree with you!  Who gets to transition when they're in their early teens?  Virtually nobody, even though that might change in some enlightened corners of the world.  The need to become your target gender comes from within and the right time to do it is when you decide that it's the right time.  And in my opinion personality and attitude are probably more important than how your body looks or how many years you've been dragging it around.

Example:  I am 45. That's suuuuuper old right?  OK, I am/was a tiny 5'3" excuse of a boy.  I'm not quite yet on HRT, haven't had any FFS except for a nose job.  And I went to a party this weekend dressed andro but quite fem, and a woman I got talking with confessed that she initially didn't know what gender I was.  I'm not especially pretty, nor do I have long thick hair.  But I made up my mind to THINK WOMAN, DO WOMAN, BE WOMAN.  That's it!

[Nero]

I'm 26, and while I have only really been transitioning for 4 months now, I often get the regretful feelings or thoughts of wishing I had transitioned earlier.

But I think almost every trans person has felt this at some time, it's only natural and comes with the territory.

See...I look at it like this...(armchair sociology/psychology incoming)


My Hair-brained Analysis of Where we go Wrong

If a woman grows up, and is not a perfect 10 looks wise, she will often feel down about it or have some self confidence issues. But nowadays, society increasingly tells her that "that's just the way you are","that's just the way you were born","Be proud of the natural you!".

So much of female culture nowadays is focused towards accepting the "real you" or the "natural you", cosmetic surgery is frowned upon and done in secret, airbrushing is a dirty word, even changing your name to be more appealing is looked at with condescension. And all along, the woman are told "Don't worry, it's not your fault you look the way you do, it's the world and the media that is broken, you are beautiful just the way you are." Acceptance of ones natural self is allot easier for in this mindset.

On the other hand, our problem is that we often have thoughts like "I would have looked better if I transitioned earlier" or "Oh god I really ->-bleeped-<-ed myself up looks wise by waiting so long". It's the aspect of the unknown, the unrealised potential, that hurts us and messes with our heads so much.

In this situation we feel like we have done something really bad to ourselves, we have ruined our bodies, or at least severely damage our prospects. Instead of being able to rely on the standard media messages of "it's just the way you are","It's not your fault","Be the natural you" we feel very personally responsible for the way we look, we hate the "natural you" and try to hide and or change it as much as possible, because we "know" it is our fault we look that way.

The difference in my opinion is blame.

We normally blame ourselves for the way we look on the outside, rather than most Cis women out there who blame nature or other outside forces for their downfalls.


My Coping Method

With this in mind, I have twisted this logic around in my head in an attempt to turn it into a positive force, rather than a negative one, by applying a degree of challenge to it!

The way I see it. If you can transition at a "late age" (whatever your opinion of that is) and look good, not even super model or movie star good, just run of the mill "Hey you look nice" good, that accomplishment is worth SO much more to a trans person than to a Cis woman.

We have so little we can rely on naturally to help look good. You have to literally fight clothing manufacturers, social constraints, lack of experience and a thousand other things, even your very genetics, every single day, just to look good, or at least passable.

In my eyes, if you can do that, hell, you can do anything

And in the future, every time you are looking at pictures or walking down a highstreet and see a Cis girl you look better than...well dayum, you have truly achieved something special.

Is it healthy? Probably not. Does is potentially breed an environment of negative reinforcement? Maybe...but In my opinion, our society as a whole is not designed to support trans feelings or struggles on a day to day basis, even standard self confidence building advice aimed towards women falls short of recognising the true problems we face...so we have to build our own logic or view the cultural norms in a unique way to live happily...

But that's just my way weird way of looking at it

Very interesting take. I think you're right. Cis women still blame themselves, but it's a different kind of blame. And most of the self blame is focused on the area everyone thinks she can easily change - weight. 
If she has small breasts or bum, she may feel bad about it, but there's nothing she can point to to say it's her fault. Nature just didn't smile on her. So she may hate herself for her body, but not with that same terrible regret thing of having irrecoverably 'ruined her looks'. Even if she blames herself for not being skinny enough, there's still the hope she can 'fix it'.

Can you imagine if cis women (who already pretty universally hate their bodies) were dealing with something similar - the thought that if they had done X (which usually they didn't even know was possible or necessary at 11), they'd be a supermodel. But they didn't, so now they're stuck. Mental hospitals would be full to capacity.

I feel terrible about little things like not starting anti-aging cream sooner, so I really can't imagine the kind of horror of fearing you messed up your whole body.
I know there's probably no help for it, but the burden of self diagnosis and 'doing something about it at the right time' puts a terrible strain on us. Nearly everyone feels bad they didn't transition out of the womb. We just have to stop blaming ourselves and recognize we did the only thing we could do at the time.

[Danniella]

I know there's probably no help for it, but the burden of self diagnosis and 'doing something about it at the right time' puts a terrible strain on us. Nearly everyone feels bad they didn't transition out of the womb. We just have to stop blaming ourselves and recognize we did the only thing we could do at the time.

I concur whole heartedly.


In addition, I would like to take this opportunity to speak to the community as a whole, because topics like this always seem to cause arguments and upset, when I think they really don't need to...

It's worth acknowledging that despite what people say or do, I'm certain that every trans person has these doubts and regrets about transitioning, to one degree or another. But it's important that whenever you enter a discussion with other trans people on this subject, you need to try and recognise that different people rationalise and cope with this in different ways.

Common Examples:

• "I transitioned when I was ready, everything I get past this point is a bonus, because it's better than continuing to suffer under the effects of testosterone (or oestrogen if FtM)"
• "I hate that I didn't transition when I was (X) years old, if you don't transition before (X) you will never look like a natural woman, I just have to make the best of what I have"
• "It doesn't matter when you transition, you never know what you would have looked like anyway, and beauty is subjective"
• And countless other variations...

All of these sentiments contain perfectly sound logic, and work as fine coping mechanisms individually, but the problem I often see online etc, that causes so much upset, is that this subject is one of THE most personal aspects of transitioning. And when we meet discuss it, the fireworks always fly.

There is no guidebook to gender dysphoria. Each person must come to their own conclusions and form their own viewpoints on themselves, their transition, and the world around them, often very quickly, and during times of extreme physical and emotional trauma.

As a result, whenever a debate strikes up over transitioning age or a similar topic, the claws will inevitably come out, no matter how nice the community. This is simply because the more personal the coping methods or world view, the more passionate or aggressively somebody will argue it...after all, it's got them this far, and what would they do without it?

I reckon, whenever things start to get heated on this oft discussed topic, we need to take a step back from it, and realise that we are all going through the same struggles, we all have the regret and self doubt inherent with our condition, it's just how we express it to others, or deal with it ourselves that separates us.

...

Wow Danniella...that was tldr...I need to lighten the mood... LOOK A KITTY!

[Annaiyah]

Give me a break. 18-20 is the age that most of the most beautiful trans women on the planet transitioned. And every single real-life trans girl I've met under the age of 35 has gotten fantastic results and were close to completely passable. (With the exception of their voices sometimes.) You're only a few years older than that. You're at a stage that most trans women WISH they could have transitioned at.

23 is a freaking spring chicken. You still have a young face ripe to have its youthful features feminized, in the prime of life for the rapid muscle and skin renewal that feminizes the body and gives you curves, probably have next to no hairline recession, and probably no serious family commitments or long-term work prospects to worry about transition destroying.

You are NOT too old. If I knew you in real life, being 23 would officially make you the 2nd youngest trans person I'd ever met. Most of my closest friends transitioned in their late 20s or early 30s, with a vast majority of the trans women at my local support group being middle-aged.

No, you are not going to get the wide pelvis that cis-women get at puberty. But what are you trying to get out of transition? If your goal is to live up to some ideal standard of beauty, then sorry, it's probably not going to happen. Like it or not, we never will live up to our cis-standard selves that would have been had we been able to go through the right puberty at the right time. (Granted, it's quite possible that you wouldn't have gotten that anyway, even if you did go through the "right" puberty. You never know. There's a reason why lots of women have body-image issues.) But if your goal is to be female, and to be completely socially accepted as female by everyone, then it's NEVER too late. And the success rate in that department is astronomical for those who transition in their 20s.

It is very comforting to hear you say that.

I don't want people to worry. I'm going to transition one way or another no matter what age I am at. I hope this thread doesn't discourage people in their thirties - sixties from transition if they really want to. I'm just glad that I will be starting now rather than later for the reason that I've spent 23 years in this prison that is my male body and I've let the fear of lack of desired results, religious beliefs (though I am still a little afraid to get my penis removed because of fear I will go to Hell), potential health risks, high costs, etc. deter me long enough!

I guess it's as everyone keeps saying, if transition really is something you feel like you want/have to do then to Hell with how old you are.

Okay, sure, as all of you are trying to get through to me, it probably would not have made much of a difference if I started E pre-puberty or not when it comes to the hip, pelvis, breast department but there is the fact that starting E pre-puberty does prevent the Adam's Apple from dropping and turning into a deep man voice and will instead make a female voice. Therefore, I wouldn't have to go through the trouble as I am now to work on my female voice.

FA:
I'm sure every woman is different when it comes to the hip/pelvis department. I'm not as worried about it now as I used to be but I'm just tired of looking down at my waist and seeing that masculine V-shaped pelvic bone of mine. Ugh. 

But as long as my E distributes fat in my backside and covers that part up, I will be fine.

[Nero]

I know there's probably no help for it, but the burden of self diagnosis and 'doing something about it at the right time' puts a terrible strain on us. Nearly everyone feels bad they didn't transition out of the womb. We just have to stop blaming ourselves and recognize we did the only thing we could do at the time.

I concur whole heartedly.


In addition, I would like to take this opportunity to speak to the community as a whole, because topics like this always seem to cause arguments and upset, when I think they really don't need to...

It's worth acknowledging that despite what people say or do, I'm certain that every trans person has these doubts and regrets about transitioning, to one degree or another. But it's important that whenever you enter a discussion with other trans people on this subject, you need to try and recognise that different people rationalise and cope with this in different ways.

Common Examples:

• "I transitioned when I was ready, everything I get past this point is a bonus, because it's better than continuing to suffer under the effects of testosterone (or oestrogen if FtM)"
• "I hate that I didn't transition when I was (X) years old, if you don't transition before (X) you will never look like a natural woman, I just have to make the best of what I have"
• "It doesn't matter when you transition, you never know what you would have looked like anyway, and beauty is subjective"
• And countless other variations...

All of these sentiments contain perfectly sound logic, and work as fine coping mechanisms individually, but the problem I often see online etc, that causes so much upset, is that this subject is one of THE most personal aspects of transitioning. And when we meet discuss it, the fireworks always fly.

There is no guidebook to gender dysphoria. Each person must come to their own conclusions and form their own viewpoints on themselves, their transition, and the world around them, often very quickly, and during times of extreme physical and emotional trauma.

As a result, whenever a debate strikes up over transitioning age or a similar topic, the claws will inevitably come out, no matter how nice the community. This is simply because the more personal the coping methods or world view, the more passionate or aggressively somebody will argue it...after all, it's got them this far, and what would they do without it?

I reckon, whenever things start to get heated on this oft discussed topic, we need to take a step back from it, and realise that we are all going through the same struggles, we all have the regret and self doubt inherent with our condition, it's just how we express it to others, or deal with it ourselves that separates us.

...

Wow Danniella...that was tldr...I need to lighten the mood... LOOK A KITTY!

Oh, I wasn't trying to knock your or anyone else's coping method or anything. Or how anyone frames their experience. I was just saying the self diagnostic nature of this (along with implications of the age at transition meaning something as far as how 'trans' someone is) creates a lot of regret and self blame in the community. I'm actually glad I didn't transition earlier (though being ftm, that may be a little easier for me).

[Danniella]

Oh, I wasn't trying to knock your or anyone else's coping method or anything. Or how anyone frames their experience. I was just saying the self diagnostic nature of this (along with implications of the age at transition meaning something as far as how 'trans' someone is) creates a lot of regret and self blame in the community. I'm actually glad I didn't transition earlier (though being ftm, that may be a little easier for me).

Heya, no worries, I didn't think you were trying to knock me or anything, like I said, I agree with you wholeheartedly RE: "Transitioning Age"

The rest of my post was just me separately throwing down my theory as to why I think the subject causes so much division and arguments etc, it wasn't directed at you or anybody in specific <3

[MadelineB]

Transition is a hard and sometimes exhausting journey.The physical aspects are only one piece of the puzzle we put together to fully live as our most genuine selves. For children and teens, even in the rare cases where there is full family support and full medical support, the hardest parts of transition, and post transition life as well, are not medical or physical.
Social and emotional challenges are the rule. Trans kids suffer, and sometimes die, from the extremes of bullying, ostracism, and negativity they get to deal with when they are most vulnerable. It is one thing to suffer through a miserable puberty and adolescence clinging tightly to the wish for a gender transition. It is another thing to achieve that transition and have no strength or resilience left to deal with the after life, which is not a bed of roses.
I transitioned when I was strong enough, healthy enough, and resilient enough to survive the stresses of transition and the stresses of life in my right gender as a trans person. Any age is the right age when you are ready, and not a day before.