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Passing in everyone's eyes but my own and other goodies. Anyone relate?

Started by Ltl89, March 04, 2014, 05:54:39 PM

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Ltl89

Disclaimer:  This really isn't a whiny or drama post more than a "I don't understand what's going on", "can you relate", and "how to move forward" sort of post.  I'm just confused and wondering if others have gone through something similar in their transition.  Maybe it's a right of passage or something.  I'm trying to learn and adjust to my new circumstances and need the wisdom of those that have been there and done that.  Thanks.

I don't know what's been going on lately, but it seems that everyone I talk to or ask is telling me I pass as female.  I used to just write these things off as "oh, they are being nice" or "oh, they are giving me hope", but it's been happening way to frequently for me to consider that's always the case.   Not just with the people on here, but friends, acquaintances and even some of my family - the same ones that would tell me often that I could never pass no matter what I do- are telling me that I look female already or that I can and will pass.   Some are even telling me that I'm pretty which I find really hard to accept.  And even more bizarre is that I haven't been told by anyone within the last month that I don't or can't pass.  Not even one person. This is all very confusing to me because I'm still seeing a boy when I look into the mirror, for the most part.  I stare at all my flaws that are so obvious to me and they out me in a second.   How are others not seeing what's painfully obvious to me?   While I admit that I'm much different looking and that I'm fem, I can't see a girl at all or even most times staring back at me.   Sure, when I put on makeup, I feel that I pass alright.  Yet, when I look at my bare face, I still see "him" and I don't want that.  It's causing a whole lot of distress for me because I'm wondering if "he'll" ever be gone.  What if I always see a boy in my face?  How can I handle that?  Will I always have gender dysphoria?  While I understand there may be an adjustment period, I really hope that I CAN adjust. 

Even more odd is the fact that I am still living as an andro boy and it seems to be going okay.  Yes, I confuse people often and there are those who seem to know what's going, but most people are really nice regardless of my appearance and "gay" (sorry best word I could think of for how I may be percieved)  mannerisms.   Because there is nothing overtly hostile going on, I would imagine that I'm playing a convincing male to mostly everyone, right?  That's what I had hoped, but now that everyone has been telling me that I pass as female, I'm afraid that everyone knows already that I'm trans.  My sister was honest and told me that there is no way people wouldn't know about my transition because I look like a girl.  So maybe more people have wised up to it than I realize.  Perhaps I'm the only one that refuses to face the reality that I've changed in my appearance?  Maybe everyone does know?  I'm not going to lie, it's a bit of a frightening thought.  Yeah, I've come out to enough people, but to do it to the entire world is a bit harder.  Yet, if I continue going out in boymode and is that what I am doing?  If I am being seen as female while out as a boy, doesn't it make sense to stop pretending to be a boy.  But at the same time,  I don't feel ready to go full time because I'm not there appearance wise and still can't pass to myself.  You know what I mean?  Anyone face these conflicting feelings at a similar stage to what I'm going through?  Like not knowing when' the right time to take the next step?

That's not to say any of these feelings are odd because I'm sure these are actually common concerns and a phase many have gone through;  however, it is starting to get distressing to me and I really don't want to see "him" anymore.  I want to be able to see a girl in my facce at all times.  The goal was to achieve male fail and secure the ability to pass.  It seems I've succeeded (at least to some degree, lol) in the eyes of others but not myself.   Now I'm left with wondering how to reach that point so that I can see it and give myself the confidence that I need to finally "complete? my transition. I suspect some will say you need to just go full time and it will come in time, but I feel this is bit of a catch 22.  If I can't see my physical appearance as a passable female prior to full time, how am I to have the confidence to initiate it?  Granted, I have some time before full time is possible, simply because some real financial restraints holding me back (though my pending position will be re-appealed for approval at the end of March and I've been applying to new positions and got a call today about some temp work with my old job), so I still have a breathing period to find that inner stregth in advance while I sort out my financial problems.  Though, I really don't know how much longer I can hide or delay this.  In any case, I'd like to find a way to overcome these feelings, so that I can feel more comfortable to step forward.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Any tips?  Any advice?  And does this story ring true for other women here that can share their experience with overcoming it?  I guess I'd be happy if anyone can relate with my feelings and tell me how they handled this awkward part of their transition. 

By the way, just so everyone knows, I'm going to stop being a total chicken.  I'm working up my courage to stop being so afraid of everything and finally feel able to start being me soon enough.  And I've been doing some shopping and getting more clothes so I can feel more comfortable about going out as me on a part time basis.  I'm learning more about what works on me and what doesn't.  Plus, I've decided to make some outings as the real me very soon.  I just still don't feel totally confident about going full time yet and will likely wait till June, but this is progress for a person like me. Yes, I'm a fraidy cat and am taking my time, but I've made soo much progress and am just a few months short of living the rest of my life as the real me at 25 years of age.  Exciting, but very scary; although it's increasingly becoming more exciting as I progress and up my confidence levels. 

And while some have already given their honest opinions, I'd really like others that haven't already shared with me to give me their honest opinion of whether I can pass at this stage of where I am (here are some photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/118627967@N03/)  I'm still a big work in progress and these photos of me are without makeup, in boys clothes and looking like a mess, but hell I really want to know what my true passing potential is without making myself dolled up? That's important to me because I need to know if anyone else also sees the beastly man that I see.  What do you seriously think?  I don't feel I have any ability to pass and feel like it would be a mistake to go out prematurely which is why I strive to perfect myself and wait for the "right moment".  Am I really over thinking this and letting fear get to me?  Do you really think I'm ready appearance wise?  Is this all really just in my head?

Sorry, I'm all over the place, but I'm very scared and feeling so many things all at once.  I just don't know how to process or handle it all.  It's like I don't know where I am or where I should be at this point.  A little lost and afraid about doing things the wrong way to be honest.  I just don't want to screw this up.  My transition is important to me, but I'm afraid of making a critical mistake while also feeling really sad that I keep delaying the start of the life that I desperately want. 




  •  

kira21 ♡♡♡

While you live in fear, you build regret.

You will make mistakes. Get used to it. If there is one thing you can count on, it is that. And taxes. Not taxis. You can't count on taxis.

Yes, you can pass fine if you decide to start going for it.

The fact you have so much support should be like rocket fuel for you. Really.

Go out and enjoy it. Take yourself out for a spin and see how you like it.

Hugs x

stephaniec

maybe if you did thinner eye brows the girls face will look back more
  •  

Aina

You look super cute Learning, you defiantly pass in my book.

As an graphic designer or artist, there is one saying I believe in. "We are our own worse critics." When people say "wow that is really well done". All I see is that looks horrid.

We just have to learn that maybe we are good artist, or in this case we look good and we pass?

Me I don't pass still haven't come out yet or done anything of use so going criticizes my own self here and wonder if I even should be opening my mouth. But I do think your looking well pretty you actually remind me slightly of a girl in my class.
  •  

kelly_aus

Quote from: learningtolive on March 04, 2014, 05:54:39 PM
I don't know what's been going on lately, but it seems that everyone I talk to or ask is telling me I pass as female.  I used to just write these things off as "oh, they are being nice" or "oh, they are giving me hope", but it's been happening way to frequently for me to consider that's always the case.   Not just with the people on here, but friends, acquaintances and even some of my family - the same ones that would tell me often that I could never pass no matter what I do- are telling me that I look female already or that I can and will pass.   Some are even telling me that I'm pretty which I find really hard to accept.  And even more bizarre is that I haven't been told by anyone within the last month that I don't or can't pass.  Not even one person. This is all very confusing to me because I'm still seeing a boy when I look into the mirror, for the most part.  I stare at all my flaws that are so obvious to me and they out me in a second.   How are others not seeing what's painfully obvious to me?   While I admit that I'm much different looking and that I'm fem, I can't see a girl at all or even most times staring back at me.   Sure, when I put on makeup, I feel that I pass alright.  Yet, when I look at my bare face, I still see "him" and I don't want that.  It's causing a whole lot of distress for me because I'm wondering if "he'll" ever be gone.  What if I always see a boy in my face?  How can I handle that?  Will I always have gender dysphoria?  While I understand there may be an adjustment period, I really hope that I CAN adjust. 

Horrifying news flash for you.. I still look in the mirror and see the man, even after being full time for over 2 years.. The thing is, I know I'm the only one who sees him. He's a memory, a trick of the mind..

QuoteEven more odd is the fact that I am still living as an andro boy and it seems to be going okay.  Yes, I confuse people often and there are those who seem to know what's going, but most people are really nice regardless of my appearance and "gay" (sorry best word I could think of for how I may be percieved)  mannerisms.   Because there is nothing overtly hostile going on, I would imagine that I'm playing a convincing male to mostly everyone, right?  That's what I had hoped, but now that everyone has been telling me that I pass as female, I'm afraid that everyone knows already that I'm trans.  My sister was honest and told me that there is no way people wouldn't know about my transition because I look like a girl.  So maybe more people have wised up to it than I realize.  Perhaps I'm the only one that refuses to face the reality that I've changed in my appearance?  Maybe everyone does know?  I'm not going to lie, it's a bit of a frightening thought.  Yeah, I've come out to enough people, but to do it to the entire world is a bit harder.  Yet, if I continue going out in boymode and is that what I am doing?  If I am being seen as female while out as a boy, doesn't it make sense to stop pretending to be a boy.  But at the same time,  I don't feel ready to go full time because I'm not there appearance wise and still can't pass to myself.  You know what I mean?  Anyone face these conflicting feelings at a similar stage to what I'm going through?  Like not knowing when' the right time to take the next step?

People will know something is going on.. Your appearance alone is a shining neon sign. I thought I made a convincing guy even when I still looked like one - I was wrong, oh so wrong..

QuoteThat's not to say any of these feelings are odd because I'm sure these are actually common concerns and a phase many have gone through;  however, it is starting to get distressing to me and I really don't want to see "him" anymore.  I want to be able to see a girl in my facce at all times.  The goal was to achieve male fail and secure the ability to pass.  It seems I've succeeded (at least to some degree, lol) in the eyes of others but not myself.   Now I'm left with wondering how to reach that point so that I can see it and give myself the confidence that I need to finally "complete? my transition. I suspect some will say you need to just go full time and it will come in time, but I feel this is bit of a catch 22.  If I can't see my physical appearance as a passable female prior to full time, how am I to have the confidence to initiate it?  Granted, I have some time before full time is possible, simply because some real financial restraints holding me back (though my pending position will be re-appealed for approval at the end of March and I've been applying to new positions and got a call today about some temp work with my old job), so I still have a breathing period to find that inner stregth in advance while I sort out my financial problems.  Though, I really don't know how much longer I can hide or delay this.  In any case, I'd like to find a way to overcome these feelings, so that I can feel more comfortable to step forward.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Any tips?  Any advice?  And does this story ring true for other women here that can share their experience with overcoming it?  I guess I'd be happy if anyone can relate with my feelings and tell me how they handled this awkward part of their transition.   

Confidence? Do what a lot of us do to start with - fake it. Serriously.. As I said, I still see the man in the mirror..

QuoteBy the way, just so everyone knows, I'm going to stop being a total chicken.  I'm working up my courage to stop being so afraid of everything and finally feel able to start being me soon enough.  And I've been doing some shopping and getting more clothes so I can feel more comfortable about going out as me on a part time basis.  I'm learning more about what works on me and what doesn't.  Plus, I've decided to make some outings as the real me very soon.  I just still don't feel totally confident about going full time yet and will likely wait till June, but this is progress for a person like me. Yes, I'm a fraidy cat and am taking my time, but I've made soo much progress and am just a few months short of living the rest of my life as the real me at 25 years of age.  Exciting, but very scary; although it's increasingly becoming more exciting as I progress and up my confidence levels. 

And while some have already given their honest opinions, I'd really like others that haven't already shared with me to give me their honest opinion of whether I can pass at this stage of where I am (here are some photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/118627967@N03/)  I'm still a big work in progress and these photos of me are without makeup, in boys clothes and looking like a mess, but hell I really want to know what my true passing potential is without making myself dolled up? That's important to me because I need to know if anyone else also sees the beastly man that I see.  What do you seriously think?  I don't feel I have any ability to pass and feel like it would be a mistake to go out prematurely which is why I strive to perfect myself and wait for the "right moment".  Am I really over thinking this and letting fear get to me?  Do you really think I'm ready appearance wise?  Is this all really just in my head?

Are you really asking about your pics again? Do you really think anyone is going to tell you something different to what you've already been told? Because if you are, you are living in a fantasy land. From a purely physical POV, you pass, you look great.. :)

As for waiting for the 'right moment', you could be waiting a long, long, long time for that.. It usually doesn't exist.

QuoteSorry, I'm all over the place, but I'm very scared and feeling so many things all at once.  I just don't know how to process or handle it all.  It's like I don't know where I am or where I should be at this point.  A little lost and afraid about doing things the wrong way to be honest.  I just don't want to screw this up.  My transition is important to me, but I'm afraid of making a critical mistake while also feeling really sad that I keep delaying the start of the life that I desperately want.

Relax.. Take a few deep, cleansing, breaths. Sounds like you have your transition planned out to the nth degree - it's an organic process, it don't work that way. I had my transition all planned out.. It went out the window shortly before I went FT. I've just gone with the flow since and it's all been going just fine.

Transition is only as hard as you make it and you seem to be making it way harder on yourself than you need to.
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 04, 2014, 06:12:33 PM
While you live in fear, you build regret.

You will make mistakes. Get used to it. If there is one thing you can count on, it is that. And taxes. Not taxis. You can't count on taxis.

Yes, you can pass fine if you decide to start going for it.

The fact you have so much support should be like rocket fuel for you. Really.

Go out and enjoy it. Take yourself out for a spin and see how you like it.

Hugs x

I do have a lot of regrets.  In fact, I feel like my life is stagnated and on hold until I can get this over with.  I'm just scared and really want everything to go perfectly.  Like it needs to go the right way.

Quote from: stephaniec on March 04, 2014, 06:26:56 PM
maybe if you did thinner eye brows the girls face will look back more

I have asymmetrical brows, so it's a bit of a pain to find the right shape.  However, I'm still learning and improving as this really is new to me. 

Quote from: Aina on March 04, 2014, 06:28:08 PM
You look super cute Learning, you defiantly pass in my book.

As an graphic designer or artist, there is one saying I believe in. "We are our own worse critics." When people say "wow that is really well done". All I see is that looks horrid.

We just have to learn that maybe we are good artist, or in this case we look good and we pass?

Me I don't pass still haven't come out yet or done anything of use so going criticizes my own self here and wonder if I even should be opening my mouth. But I do think your looking well pretty you actually remind me slightly of a girl in my class.

Thanks.  I'm really hoping I will pass as well as others think.  It's just tough to see my own potential.

Quote from: kelly_aus on March 04, 2014, 06:28:13 PM
Horrifying news flash for you.. I still look in the mirror and see the man, even after being full time for over 2 years.. The thing is, I know I'm the only one who sees him. He's a memory, a trick of the mind..

People will know something is going on.. Your appearance alone is a shining neon sign. I thought I made a convincing guy even when I still looked like one - I was wrong, oh so wrong..

Confidence? Do what a lot of us do to start with - fake it. Serriously.. As I said, I still see the man in the mirror..

Are you really asking about your pics again? Do you really think anyone is going to tell you something different to what you've already been told? Because if you are, you are living in a fantasy land. From a purely physical POV, you pass, you look great.. :)

As for waiting for the 'right moment', you could be waiting a long, long, long time for that.. It usually doesn't exist.

Relax.. Take a few deep, cleansing, breaths. Sounds like you have your transition planned out to the nth degree - it's an organic process, it don't work that way. I had my transition all planned out.. It went out the window shortly before I went FT. I've just gone with the flow since and it's all been going just fine.

Transition is only as hard as you make it and you seem to be making it way harder on yourself than you need to.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.  It's just weird that others see a girl and all I can see is a manly guy.  And yeah, I did plan my transition out.  Maybe I really just need to start living and stop thinking.   I'm just a little lost.  I know I'm going to transition and all, but finding where I am and what stage of it I'm currently in is a bit hard.  My life is a work in progress, so it's hard to fit my transition goals into circumstances that are always evolving (mainly financial).  I just really don't know how to get over my social fear.  It's crippled me for so long that the idea of defeating it is incredibly elating yet terrifying.   Like I want to just live my life as the real me, but I don't even know how to live in general. 
  •  

stephaniec

you can try going out to a movie as yourself with or without a friend. You'd be out with others but in a theater and wouldn't worry about people reading you then make a dash for the car  afterwards.
  •  

Lizzie

First thought, that's a pretty woman. The only thing that gives it away is you being here. I'd say your just fine.

Isn't it No more self hate month?  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,160334.0.html  :icon_yes:
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: stephaniec on March 04, 2014, 08:08:04 PM
you can try going out to a movie as yourself with or without a friend. You'd be out with others but in a theater and wouldn't worry about people reading you then make a dash for the car  afterwards.

I'm going to go somewhere in NYC for my first outing.  I'll have to see if I can rally up some friends.  I will be going out more, it's part of my get over my fear plan.

Quote from: Lizzie on March 04, 2014, 09:04:17 PM
First thought, that's a pretty woman. The only thing that gives it away is you being here. I'd say your just fine.

Isn't it No more self hate month?  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,160334.0.html  :icon_yes:

Thanks! :)

There is no self hate here, lol.  It's more, I'm scared and don't know how to succesfully do all of this and need some guidance kind of thing.  I know I'll make it in the end and will find a way to see it through, but I'm struggling and trying to learn and grow as I go.  But I will make it someday even if it is frustrating now.
  •  

ThePhoenix

This sounds familiar.  For some reason I see guy in photos of myself.  Not in the mirror so much.  But in photographs.  It's one of the reasons I hate having my picture taken.

A therapist I used to see told me something that might explain it.  She said that when people meet someone for the first time they take a mental image of their face.  But when they see them again, all they are really seeing is a few general details to confirm that it is the person they photographed.  Small changes get stored as an update, but the brain does not retake the photo.

So when you see yourself every day in the mirror during transition, your brain already has that "guy image" stored and it's just seeing enough to recognize and update the image.  But it never completely replaces the image it stored, so it stays labelled as "that guy."  And it takes quite a while for the brain to finally relabel the image it recognizes.  This would also be why people who know a trans* person can be some of the ones who have most difficulty seeing the changes when the person transitions.  It's also why a person who loses a lot of weight in the mirror may look and still see themselves as fat.

Basically this is a long way of saying that the reason you see a guy in the mirror is because you are accustomed to seeing a guy in the mirror.  It will change.  But it may take a long time.

As far as changing the perception, the one thing I found that worked for me was surprising myself.  If I looked in the mirror at home I'd always see a guy.  If I was in a public building and came around a corner and found an unexpected mirror, then I'd see a woman and it would take a second or two to realize that was me.  Same with prior changes in appearance.  Self image is hard to change and it takes a while.  But with time it will change.
  •  

BunnyBee

I am glad to see you pushing yourself forward l2l.  I know how it is to be scared and completely lacking the requisite self-esteem for taking on something like this.  It is hard and takes so much inner strength to get through it, but I feel it does make it more rewarding in the end.  You can do it, you will be successful.  What I did when I felt like I just couldn't is I would close my eyes, take a deep breath, imagine all my fears tied to a cluster of balloons, and then I would just let go of it and let it float away.  It helped me lol, idk.
  •  

smile_jma

I am in that phase right now, I think. I think I'm out as whatever, and no matter what I wear, people still read my appearance as girl (with maybe bad fashion sense) while I disagree with their conclusion (now that happens with ~99% of the people I meet now). Nothing you can do about it but to accept that you're teaching them that there can be pretty boys in this world. While it's not what we are, it's what they'll understand if you have to talk and your voice isn't there.  I probably "introduce" a pretty boy to random store workers and owners, friends of friends about 3 times a day. Sucks, but because my voice isn't quite there and I don't want to tell these strangers what's going on...it's what I have to do.

So you're not alone in that at this moment in your life.
  •  

sam79

To put this really simply, from photos, you pass physically better than I do now. And I have no issues out in the world... You will have no issues provided voice and deportment is on the mark.

I know that confidence will still take a little while to grow, but seriously, get on with it. You'll be more than fine.

PS. I'm jelly.
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: SammyRose on March 05, 2014, 03:54:35 AM
To put this really simply, from photos, you pass physically better than I do now. And I have no issues out in the world... You will have no issues provided voice and deportment is on the mark.

I know that confidence will still take a little while to grow, but seriously, get on with it. You'll be more than fine.

PS. I'm jelly.

Thank you.  Believe me, there's no reason to feel jealous of me, lol. 

Quote from: smile_jma on March 05, 2014, 01:23:06 AM
I am in that phase right now, I think. I think I'm out as whatever, and no matter what I wear, people still read my appearance as girl (with maybe bad fashion sense) while I disagree with their conclusion (now that happens with ~99% of the people I meet now). Nothing you can do about it but to accept that you're teaching them that there can be pretty boys in this world. While it's not what we are, it's what they'll understand if you have to talk and your voice isn't there.  I probably "introduce" a pretty boy to random store workers and owners, friends of friends about 3 times a day. Sucks, but because my voice isn't quite there and I don't want to tell these strangers what's going on...it's what I have to do.

So you're not alone in that at this moment in your life.

Yeah my voice isn't where I'd like it to be.  I sound like a gay man more than I sound like a woman.  It's something I'm working on very hard on at the moment.

Quote from: Jen on March 04, 2014, 09:55:10 PM
I am glad to see you pushing yourself forward l2l.  I know how it is to be scared and completely lacking the requisite self-esteem for taking on something like this.  It is hard and takes so much inner strength to get through it, but I feel it does make it more rewarding in the end.  You can do it, you will be successful.  What I did when I felt like I just couldn't is I would close my eyes, take a deep breath, imagine all my fears tied to a cluster of balloons, and then I would just let go of it and let it float away.  It helped me lol, idk.

Thanks Jen.  I have no doubt that I will eventually see this through.  It's just very hard and I have no idea where I'm going.  Like I know what the end result will eventually be (to some degree), but getting there and knowing when to take each step is very complicated for me.  Even though I know what my path is, I find myself lost on it and not certain which direction I should be moving in at this very moment.

Quote from: ThePhoenix on March 04, 2014, 09:34:27 PM
This sounds familiar.  For some reason I see guy in photos of myself.  Not in the mirror so much.  But in photographs.  It's one of the reasons I hate having my picture taken.

A therapist I used to see told me something that might explain it.  She said that when people meet someone for the first time they take a mental image of their face.  But when they see them again, all they are really seeing is a few general details to confirm that it is the person they photographed.  Small changes get stored as an update, but the brain does not retake the photo.

So when you see yourself every day in the mirror during transition, your brain already has that "guy image" stored and it's just seeing enough to recognize and update the image.  But it never completely replaces the image it stored, so it stays labelled as "that guy."  And it takes quite a while for the brain to finally relabel the image it recognizes.  This would also be why people who know a trans* person can be some of the ones who have most difficulty seeing the changes when the person transitions.  It's also why a person who loses a lot of weight in the mirror may look and still see themselves as fat.

Basically this is a long way of saying that the reason you see a guy in the mirror is because you are accustomed to seeing a guy in the mirror.  It will change.  But it may take a long time.

As far as changing the perception, the one thing I found that worked for me was surprising myself.  If I looked in the mirror at home I'd always see a guy.  If I was in a public building and came around a corner and found an unexpected mirror, then I'd see a woman and it would take a second or two to realize that was me.  Same with prior changes in appearance.  Self image is hard to change and it takes a while.  But with time it will change.

Yeah, my therapist calls this residual image.  In many ways, she is probably right.  It's just so frustrating to hear everyone tell you that you are ready and passable to not even see it yourself.  It's very confusing and it's hard to tell where you really are in the grand scheme of things.  I'm not sure what stage of my transition I'm at and finding that out is very challenging.  In any event, I hope you're right that this is something that will fade with time because it's starting to really get to me. 
  •  

HelloKitty

I feel the same way. Totally same. Am at that point now where I'm starting to actually believe what people are saying, that I'm a pretty girl. For a while I too thought they were just being nice.

The problem I'm facing now is just that I have a hard time believing that people cannot tell that I'm not a cis gender girl.
A couple people I told were just shocked and my boyfriend said his friends hve seen me on Facebook and they have no idea.

I have heard this from others as well, as a few people I decided to inform.

It's all pretty overwhelming and wonderful.

Anyways, I have not seen your pics but since people are saying you pass or that they dont even know at all,just try to believe them. Cause it's true. You're right its just too many people all the time for them to just be nice but untruthful.

So congrats on being able to live the life you were always meant to. :)
  •  

Ltl89

Quote from: HelloKitty on March 05, 2014, 11:50:02 AM
I feel the same way. Totally same. Am at that point now where I'm starting to actually believe what people are saying, that I'm a pretty girl. For a while I too thought they were just being nice.

The problem I'm facing now is just that I have a hard time believing that people cannot tell that I'm not a cis gender girl.
A couple people I told were just shocked and my boyfriend said his friends hve seen me on Facebook and they have no idea.

I have heard this from others as well, as a few people I decided to inform.

It's all pretty overwhelming and wonderful.

Anyways, I have not seen your pics but since people are saying you pass or that they dont even know at all,just try to believe them. Cause it's true. You're right its just too many people all the time for them to just be nice but untruthful.

So congrats on being able to live the life you were always meant to. :)

Thanks.  It's just weird to hear people say all of these things that you yourself can't see.  Like I feel like I'm in a weird twilight zone episode, lol.  But hey, it could definitely be a worse situation, so I should take it for what it is.   
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Carrie Liz

LtL, you look absolutely adorable! HRT is already doing wonders for your face! You have such a beautiful natural feminine shape, cute cheeks, cute lips, a cute chin, and your eyes are just absolutely gorgeous! A little more hair-removal, some eyebrow work, and feminine clothes, and I don't see any conceivable way that you're going to have any problems whatsoever.

I certainly know the feeling of people telling me that I pass, but not believing them because I think that they know me and therefore their answers are going to be biased. So here's a question... how about people who don't know you? How about the anonymous public? How about all of the people in this world who are just getting the usual brief 2-second glance at you and then deciding on the spot whether you're male or female with no bias whatsoever? How do they gender you? How do they talk to you?

It was easy for me to deny that I was passing back when I was only going out amongst friends who I knew were worried about my self-esteem. It was a lot harder to deny it when I started going out in public and never heard anything but "miss," "ladies," "sweetheart," and the like. And I, like you, have a hard time believing that I'm really passing. I seriously do think "how can they not notice? Don't they notice all of these flaws that I'm constantly obsessing over?" But hard evidence says over and over again that they don't. So seriously, if you really want to know, just get out there and see how people treat you. It will become blatantly obvious very quickly whether you really are passing or not. (I don't see how you couldn't, but still, I feel it's a necessary step to really start convincing ourselves.)

Also, don't worry about the "you'll never pass" and the "you'll make an ugly woman" comments that you got pre-transition. Those are inevitable. I got them all the time. Our society has a set notion of what a transsexual looks like. They don't understand how much the body changes, how much the face softens, etc. So probably every single MtF has to put up with at least one "it'll never work" comment before starting transition, only to have those same people flabbergasted a couple of years later. Especially with the young.
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Adam (birkin)

I can totally relate. I'm almost 2 years on hormones, and I pass as a guy pretty much all the time. But I still see "her" most of the time. And when people say I look like a guy, I'm not inclined to believe them...I even get nervous (though, less so lately) when people call me 'sir' because I think "oh, they just didn't look closely enough, they're going to notice, augh."
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Brooke777

I can relate to this quite well. To everyone else, I look like a woman. In fact, I am constantly being told how beautiful I am. However, when I look in the mirror, I still see a guy. I just try to remember that we are our own worse critics. Women tend to be the worse offenders of this too. Basically, you certainly are not alone.
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Ltl89

Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 05, 2014, 01:04:24 PM
LtL, you look absolutely adorable! HRT is already doing wonders for your face! You have such a beautiful natural feminine shape, cute cheeks, cute lips, a cute chin, and your eyes are just absolutely gorgeous! A little more hair-removal, some eyebrow work, and feminine clothes, and I don't see any conceivable way that you're going to have any problems whatsoever.

I certainly know the feeling of people telling me that I pass, but not believing them because I think that they know me and therefore their answers are going to be biased. So here's a question... how about people who don't know you? How about the anonymous public? How about all of the people in this world who are just getting the usual brief 2-second glance at you and then deciding on the spot whether you're male or female with no bias whatsoever? How do they gender you? How do they talk to you?

It was easy for me to deny that I was passing back when I was only going out amongst friends who I knew were worried about my self-esteem. It was a lot harder to deny it when I started going out in public and never heard anything but "miss," "ladies," "sweetheart," and the like. And I, like you, have a hard time believing that I'm really passing. I seriously do think "how can they not notice? Don't they notice all of these flaws that I'm constantly obsessing over?" But hard evidence says over and over again that they don't. So seriously, if you really want to know, just get out there and see how people treat you. It will become blatantly obvious very quickly whether you really are passing or not. (I don't see how you couldn't, but still, I feel it's a necessary step to really start convincing ourselves.)

Also, don't worry about the "you'll never pass" and the "you'll make an ugly woman" comments that you got pre-transition. Those are inevitable. I got them all the time. Our society has a set notion of what a transsexual looks like. They don't understand how much the body changes, how much the face softens, etc. So probably every single MtF has to put up with at least one "it'll never work" comment before starting transition, only to have those same people flabbergasted a couple of years later. Especially with the young.

Thank you for the compliments! :)

It's hard to say how strangers take me.  Since I still go out presenting male and not going out of my way to pass, it's really difficult for me to know.  I get looks, confuse people, see smiles in my direction, here comments and sometimes feel on display to be honest.  A simple task like going shopping makes me feel awkward because I feel like I'm "outing" myself as trans just by going out of the house as a fem guy.  And you can tell when people are on to you which is happening more and more as I go on.  Like if I was to just stop presenting male it would almost be easier for me to blend.  Yet, I'm a bit afraid to take my chances at trying to pass as female prematurely and have my ego bruised severely.  It's like I'm in gender limbo at the moment.  Then again, there are also people that are really nice to me and most are like that.  I have no idea if they know or even suspect anything about me because most of the times people avoid gender terms with me.  So I really don't know. That's why I've been asking people that know how they'd gender me and the answers are all female or more in that direction.  As of now, I'm really getting nothing to the contrary which is odd.  It's confusing because I don't see it myself nor do I really know if i'd pass if I tried presenting female in public.  I feel like I'm still at that andro in between stage.  Like it's too early for me to start presenting the right way.  I don't know.  I just want to do it right and want it to work out in the end.  And I'm terrified.  But maybe it's time that I start getting out as me and I plan on attempting it before the end of the month.  To be honest, I've been a real shut in lately and hate being that.  I want to go out and live my life, yet I'm not interested in doing that as a boy nor do I feel ready to live as a girl.  Like my life is on hold until I can get past this terrible phase.  But I guess I really just need to push myself forward. 

Quote from: birkin on March 05, 2014, 03:42:43 PM
I can totally relate. I'm almost 2 years on hormones, and I pass as a guy pretty much all the time. But I still see "her" most of the time. And when people say I look like a guy, I'm not inclined to believe them...I even get nervous (though, less so lately) when people call me 'sir' because I think "oh, they just didn't look closely enough, they're going to notice, augh."

Quote from: Brooke777 on March 05, 2014, 03:47:59 PM
I can relate to this quite well. To everyone else, I look like a woman. In fact, I am constantly being told how beautiful I am. However, when I look in the mirror, I still see a guy. I just try to remember that we are our own worse critics. Women tend to be the worse offenders of this too. Basically, you certainly are not alone.

According to my therapist, this is residual image.  Like we all know what we used to look like so it creates some self bias.  I don't know though if that's really what's going on in my case.  I just want to make sure I don't step forward too soon and crash and burn.  The last thing I want is my first few outings to be complete failures.  I understand it can't be perfect, but I don't know where I am. 
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