Applying for jobs before legal gender change?

[Carrie Liz]

Hello, everyone.

I'm in a bit of a conundrum at the moment in regards to employment.

I was just fired from my job yesterday, (presumably because my manager knew that I was trans and was planning on transitioning on the job soon, and like an idiot I assumed that she'd be okay with it, forgetting that I was a probational hire and therefore could be dumped at any time for no reason whatsoever with no legal protection to help me.)

So now I'm looking for jobs once again. This is now the second job in a row that I've been fired from as a direct or indirect result of being an in-transition trans woman. The first time due to mistakes made as a result of dysphoria, the second time as a result of direct discrimination from management.

My options now are basically to either go full-time and just interview for jobs as a girl to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again, or to once again start a new job as a guy and put up with the constant fear, uncertainty, and awkwardness of transitioning on the job, plus months of dysphoria and annoyance while I'm waiting to do so. Clearly, in terms of my own mental health and for the sake of job performance, going full-time is the better option.

The problem, though, is that I do not have my name changed, nor do I have the gender marker on my driver's license, bank accounts, or anything else legally changed. So basically in order to apply for jobs as a girl, I'd be applying under my male name, and then just showing up at the interview as a girl and explaining that I'm a trans woman who just hasn't changed my name legally yet.

I talked to one of my trans friends about it, and she seems to think that this is a horrible idea, that I'd never get hired for a job as a girl unless I had my name and gender marker legally changed. But at the same time, I can't imagine starting yet another job in hiding.

Can anyone give me some help here? Has anyone else applied for jobs as a gender presentation that did not match their legal name and documents? Did everything go okay? Or am I just setting myself up for failure and destroying my chances of being hired if I do that? Should I transition and get it over with, or yet again start a new job as a guy and try to transition on the job, the strategy that has now failed me two times in a row?

Any help/advice would be VERY welcome.

[Brooke777]

In my opinion, I don't think it is worth the emotional damage of going into hiding. Unless they ask for your legal name on the application, I recommend applying under your chosen name. Normally if they ask for a legal name, they also ask for a preferred name. That is where you would put your chosen name. I have gotten jobs as a non-passing, obviously trans woman before. I personally think that is a better way to go. That way, you know for sure that they won't have an issue as you continue transition. Best of luck hon.

[JaimeD]

I'd think not giving them your legal name along with other legally correct info would be grounds for dismissal at any time in the future. Plus it kind of puts a big kink in the employer/employee relationship from the getgo.

[Carrie Liz]

Another thing that complicates this is that I really don't pass as a guy anymore. Even with my hair tucked back and wearing male clothes, I've still been gendered female several times. Mainly it's because my body has a very feminine shape, my mannerisms are very effeminate, and it takes conscious effort for me to push my voice down into the male range now.

So even if I decide to apply for jobs as a guy, it's not really as a "guy," it's more like as a genderqueerish vaguely-male presentation that people assume is very gay, and still doesn't pass as a guy all the time.

There's been a couple times now where I've gone into the men's bathroom and people who were about to use the urinal paused and stared at me timidly before unzipping, as if they were thinking "oh my God, there's a girl in here, should I be doing this?" And there was even one time where, when I was leaving the bathroom, I'm pretty sure I heard the guy behind me say to his friend "I'm surprised nobody shoved that girl out of here."

[Jessica Merriman]

I think this is the chance to go Full Time myself. As long as your legal name is on the application so they can do a background check you should have no problems at all. I mean you are being misgendered now so correct that issue. Be the Carrie Liz we have all gotten to know and love. Brooke is right about repressing yourself again, it would only hurt you more. Only my opinion though. PS-Get busy on that name change girlfriend!

[Misato]

*hugs* on the being fired. I was fired on Monday (Not for being trans though) so I get the precarious position all to well.

A year ago I applied for jobs with my chosen name, not yet legal, and it wasn't a problem. I just said during the interview, "You're going to need another name from me for the background check" and that was that.

[Ltl89]

I'm in the same boat.  I've been applying with my legal male name because I figure I need my job history and references.  Plus, I imagine they can find out my legal name during a background check.  At the same time, I'm not really looking like your typical guy anymore.  I do stand out and don't know how realistic my male presentation as it's awkward at best.  Can't say I have an answer for you, but I personally feel like applying with a male name would really be odd if you present female.  And while you could try your female name, it might hurt you once they realize it's different from your legal name.  In any event, I'm really no authority on this topic, so take anything I say with a huge grain of salt.  After all, there are many woman that have used their chosen name and had no problem. 

Sorry to hear about your job loss.  I really hope you find something great soon. 

[Carrie Liz]

A year ago I applied for jobs with my chosen name, not yet legal, and it wasn't a problem. I just said during the interview, "You're going to need another name from me for the background check" and that was that.

Thank you! That was what I was hoping to hear.

Did you have your gender marker legally changed yet? What about a doctor's note? Should I worry about those before trying to apply places? Those I could indeed get in time, where the legal name change would take too much time and money.

[Misato]

Yes, my gender marker has been corrected. For Social Security all it took was a note from my therapist and for me, living in Minnesota, that same note worked to fix my driver's license. Other states do not handle the need so wisely...

Depending upon your financial situation you may be able to get assistance. Of the eight or so people I routinely went to the clinic with, only myself and another woman paid for things out right. Everyone else got the various fees waived.

[Missy~rmdlm]

I'd really advise only undertaking an on the job transition with a job that's reasonably secure. Bonus points if the employer has an orientation and/or gender diversification clause.
So, since you are between jobs, I'd have gotten the show on the road like yesterday. The method I went through to finalize all my documents in Missouri took about five months. Those broke down into 8 weeks for name change finalizing (prep, court, publishing, etc.) 1 week scheduling with my primary doctor for a passport note under my new legal name. 8 more weeks for my passport in my new name and gender. Then I could visit the license office with passport and name change paperwork to get my license updated, another week for it to arrive in the mail. Scrambling much of that time to update every record out there that was update-able fixed, like getting a new graduation certificate printed by people I really never wanted to talk to again.

[JenniL]

Honestly, get the name and marker changes on DL and SS. Make your life easier. I mean easier if it's a company that offers insurance and it cover meds and doctor visits. That's the huge benefit.

As for the note SSA. The SSA spells it out clearly on what needs to be  written on the letter. So pop a visit to the website. Print it out give it to your doctor or therapist so they can type it up off you

Only thing I foresee is the background check and having to tell them what they need know.

Of course the choice is totally up to you.

[Carrie Liz]

I'd really advise only undertaking an on the job transition with a job that's reasonably secure. Bonus points if the employer has an orientation and/or gender diversification clause.
So, since you are between jobs, I'd have gotten the show on the road like yesterday. The method I went through to finalize all my documents in Missouri took about five months. Those broke down into 8 weeks for name change finalizing (prep, court, publishing, etc.) 1 week scheduling with my primary doctor for a passport note under my new legal name. 8 more weeks for my passport in my new name and gender. Then I could visit the license office with passport and name change paperwork to get my license updated, another week for it to arrive in the mail. Scrambling much of that time to update every record out there that was update-able fixed, like getting a new graduation certificate printed by people I really never wanted to talk to again.

Well, the problem is, then, I don't have time for all of this. I only have about $1400 left to my name, which maybe gives me two months to find a job before my financial well runs dry. Plus I just found out that it's impossible for me to get a name change in the county that I'm living in unless I've been a resident for a full year. And I just moved to New Jersey and back within the last 4 months, so I just messed up my eligibility.

So while I could indeed get the gender marker on my driver's license and SSI changed in time, (In Ohio, all it takes is a getting a form signed by a doctor and sent in to the BMV,) the name isn't going to happen. I'm stuck with my legal name for at least another full year according to Cuyahoga County law. So the option is either apply for jobs as a genderqueer-appearing guy who's in-transition, or apply as a girl with a male name.

[mrs izzy]

Everyone forgets about the United states common law name change or assumeed name. That is how i started all my name change while i was waiting on the courts to final the process. Went full time and used my assumed name for everything.

Here is something i found for ohio

How do you get a name change in Ohio?

In a divorce case, the wife may ask the court to change her last name to her maiden name, and the court may then include the name change in the final divorce decree.  Otherwise, there are two ways for someone to legally change their name.

First, a person may simply "assume" a new name if it is done for an "honest" purpose and not for fraudulent purposes such as using an alias to avoid creditors or escape prosecution.  You can "assume" a new name simply by using that name in all future transactions, relationships, etc.

Second, in Ohio, a person can obtain a court order for a formal change of name by filing an application requesting a name change in the local probate court, getting a hearing date for a hearing on your petition for a name change, and publishing notice of your petition and hearing date in a local newspaper of general circulation once at least 30 days before the hearing on the application, and testifying at the court hearing as to your reasons for requesting the name change.  Again, you cannot request and obtain a name change for the purpose of avoiding creditors, evading criminal prosecution or investigation, or for other fraudulent purposes.

If you look around you might find more informaion.
Isabell

[Carrie Liz]

^I had no idea that this possibility existed. I just assumed that if it wasn't legally changed with the courts, I couldn't use it for anything.

[mrs izzy]

That is why sometimes it is nice to have a few old timers around. Wealth of information.

Forge ahead full steam.

Isabell

[mrs izzy]

Had to dig around but this is the format i used with mine. Hope it helps some

Just replace the things in the (  ) with your information.


STATE OF (add State Name)
COUNTY OF (add County name)
-----------------------------------------------------------x
In the Matter of the Common Law AFFIDAVIT AND
Change of Name of:
DECLARATION OF
(add your old name)
CHANGE OF NAME
now known as:
(add your new name)
-----------------------------------------------------------x
I (old name here), now known as (new hame here), being duly sworn, deposes and says, and does hereby solemnly declare the truth of the following statements:
1. Deponent-Declarant resides at (add address here)
2. Deponent-Declarant is a pre-operative transsexual, and is living as (gender here).
3. There is no fraud, misrepresentation or interference with the rights of others involved in this declaration. Affirmant has not ever been convicted of any crime, and has never been adjudicated a bankrupt. There are no judgments or liens against affirmant, nor are there any actions or proceedings at law or equity against affirmant seeking money damages.
4. Deponent-Declarant hereby declares that pursuant to the common law applicable in the State of (your state here), the Deponent-Declarant does hereby change Deponent-Declarant's name from (old name here) to (new name here) for all purposes, subject only to the continued use of the name (old name here) wherever necessary to do so.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the Deponent-Declarant has executed this Affidavit and Declaration on this

_______th day of __________, in the year ________.


_______________________
(old name here)


_______________________
(new name here)
Sworn to before me this

______ day of ________, _________

-------------------------------------------------------------x
Notary Public
STATE OF (add your state):
SS.:
COUNTY OF (add your county):
ON THE DAY OF IN THE YEAR BEFORE ME, THE UNDERSIGNED, PERSONALLY APPEARED
, PERSONALLY KNOWN TO ME OR PROVED TO ME ON THE BASIS OF SATISFACTORY EVIDENCE TO BE THE INDIVIDUAL(S) WHOSE NAME(S) IS (ARE) SUBSCRIBED TO THE WITHIN INSTRUMENT AND ACKNOWLEDGED TO ME THAT HE/SHE/THEY EXECUTED THE SAME IN HIS/HER/THEIR CAPACITY(IES), AND THAT BY HIS/HER/THEIR SIGNATURE(S) ON THE INSTRUMENT, THE INDIVIDUAL(S), OR THE PERSON UPON BEHALF OF WHICH THE INDIVIDUAL(S) ACTED, EXECUTED THE INSTRUMENT.


_______________________________________
Notary Public

[Lady_Oracle]

Another thing that complicates this is that I really don't pass as a guy anymore. Even with my hair tucked back and wearing male clothes, I've still been gendered female several times. Mainly it's because my body has a very feminine shape, my mannerisms are very effeminate, and it takes conscious effort for me to push my voice down

IM IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION!

Its impossible for me to pass as male right now. Im working on getting my name change done but I still won't be able to change my gender marker. Since my state requires surgery to get it changed  . So idk what to do about employment in this state.

[Missadventure]

Hello, everyone.

I'm in a bit of a conundrum at the moment in regards to employment.

I was just fired from my job yesterday, (presumably because my manager knew that I was trans and was planning on transitioning on the job soon, and like an idiot I assumed that she'd be okay with it, forgetting that I was a probational hire and therefore could be dumped at any time for no reason whatsoever with no legal protection to help me.)

So now I'm looking for jobs once again. This is now the second job in a row that I've been fired from as a direct or indirect result of being an in-transition trans woman. The first time due to mistakes made as a result of dysphoria, the second time as a result of direct discrimination from management.

My options now are basically to either go full-time and just interview for jobs as a girl to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again, or to once again start a new job as a guy and put up with the constant fear, uncertainty, and awkwardness of transitioning on the job, plus months of dysphoria and annoyance while I'm waiting to do so. Clearly, in terms of my own mental health and for the sake of job performance, going full-time is the better option.

The problem, though, is that I do not have my name changed, nor do I have the gender marker on my driver's license, bank accounts, or anything else legally changed. So basically in order to apply for jobs as a girl, I'd be applying under my male name, and then just showing up at the interview as a girl and explaining that I'm a trans woman who just hasn't changed my name legally yet.

I talked to one of my trans friends about it, and she seems to think that this is a horrible idea, that I'd never get hired for a job as a girl unless I had my name and gender marker legally changed. But at the same time, I can't imagine starting yet another job in hiding.

Can anyone give me some help here? Has anyone else applied for jobs as a gender presentation that did not match their legal name and documents? Did everything go okay? Or am I just setting myself up for failure and destroying my chances of being hired if I do that? Should I transition and get it over with, or yet again start a new job as a guy and try to transition on the job, the strategy that has now failed me two times in a row?

Any help/advice would be VERY welcome.

Im in the same boat as you, only I was fired from my last job for cause rather than anything transition related (they had no idea I was in transition until I went to pick up my final paycheck in a dress - and they didn't even realize it was me until they asked me who I was 5 minutes into the conversation)...

I've been mulling for weeks now how I wanted to handle finding a new job in regards to my transition. I've been full time for weeks now, ever since the day I was fired. And I can't go back to being part time. But, legally, I'm not a woman yet, and I still have my male name. One of the first things I plan on doing when I have an income is to get that changed... But.. Need to get that income first....

I've finally decided that I'm applying as a woman. This will of course mean immediately having to out myself to employers, since all my legal "right to work" documents, IE id and social security card, are in my male name. But. I figure, it's better to not be hired because of a companies discrimination than to be fired because of it. Because, after I get the job, my fear is that I'll just keep putting off transition in favor of having an income. That's what kept me from coming out at my last job. And I DO NOT want to get pigeon holed into having a boy mode again.

A friend of mine is a practicing pagan, and she wears a pentagram necklace to any job interview she takes, with the reasoning that any employer who has a problem with it has a problem with her, and thusly its in her best interest to not work there. I feel that same logic applies for me and transitioning.

Granted... My savings is rapidly dwindling to zero, and I haven't had any calls for an interview. In a few weeks I may give up my lofty ideals, dig the boy clothes out of the basement, and take the first McJob I can get.

[Missadventure]

First, a person may simply "assume" a new name if it is done for an "honest" purpose and not for fraudulent purposes such as using an alias to avoid creditors or escape prosecution.  You can "assume" a new name simply by using that name in all future transactions, relationships, etc.

My understanding of an assumed name is it only holds any validity if an institution is willing to accept it. A lot of institutions, to my understanding, wont accept it without a court order. My mom actually had this issue. After her second divorce she just reassumed her maiden name, rather than having her name changed back via the courts. And a lot of places would not let her use it.

[mrs izzy]

I and my husband had no issues.

DL, Passport, SS, Bank, Marriage, etc.

Not everyone understand or knows the law and you need to take information to show them.

Do not get me wrong you will need the legal name change if you want to change your BC. But it is a good way to bridge the gap from going full time and waiting for your name change to get back from the courts.

Isabell