Opposite advice between FYFV and HDFV

[Unice]

Pardon my exuberance, please.

I noticed that Finding Your Female Voice suggests finding an appropriate pitch just below where the voice usually breaks and How to develop a Female Voice suggests just above the voice break.

I have competing suggestions to look at and meanwhile I learned to not break in the middle, so... I wonder what will work.

[Emmaline]

I figure it as above your break to exercise vocal chords- but below break for actual target pitch.  Thats just how I figure it.
Minimouse is like weight training.  Wow that must be the first time that sentence has ever been used.

[AmyBerlin]

Hi all,

Emmaline is spot on. The break doesn't occur at one particular pitch. You can extend head voice/falsetto/neutral voice down to, like, Bb2. By the same token, you can extend chest voice/overdrive up until about G4 on average. That's 1 3/4 octaves of overlap between the two voice modes. What's generally referred to as "the break" is the upper limit of chest voice around G4. So you'd be below that in pitch (at around G3/A3), but with the vocal setting of head voice/falsetto/neutral that regular guy singers only use "above the break".

That sounds a little convoluted, maybe, but should make sense, at least when read twice.

Amy

[anjaq]

Also note that there may be several breaks in your voice. I have one below my present low speaking voice that breaks down to an even lower, "male voice" and one above my speaking range wehen I do enter a singing or head voice and then there is one way way up at the limits of my phonetic capabilities where the head voice breaks into something else but it is quite straining there so I am not exploring that one...

[Unice]

I haven't gone all the way through FYFV because she suggests going step by step. But, she says that people should always stay below the break. I took that to mean as the voice you are developing. If it's not then maybe she says otherwise later.

I did listen all the way through how to develop a female voice (Melanie Anne) and she said to speak as low as you can above the break... She says below the break is "male voice". And she demonstrates either starting high and lowering your voice down to the right place, or starting with a cartoon voice and drawing it back, which she demonstrates by relaxing and widening her throat, it sounds like.

But, I have already reversed something she said, so maybe I'm doing that here too.

Also, if the point is to avoid the break. Then there is the idea of not breaking.

I made different clips, that have no or much less of a break, and that don't go on to play my grating falsetto voice.

The idea is that when my voice approaches the break, I make the yawn or "duh" voice:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1CgYuhlvPDW

But, after doing that for a short while, I found that I can expand my throat part of the way so it doesn't sound as much like "duh":

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1hQ2cwYsglz

I can't speak in the passagio area, yet. But, it seems to me like with practice I should be able to speak fluidly. Together with shaping the throat to mimic a smaller resonating chamber, I think it means that you can choose the pitch that is appropriate anywhere from bass to whistle register.

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Unice,

the 2nd clip is just right, you're staying in neutral voice (Sadolin's term) pretty much all of the time. And yes, you can pick any pitch in that range and speak there, although it takes different types and amounts of effort and control. Great range, by the way!

Cheers,

Amy

[Unice]

Is this Sadolin?

http://completevocalinstitute.com/

About multiple breaks, anjaq, I pick the wrong place as where I think my "boys at puberty" break is some times. Maybe those are both breaks? It would be nice if it were a break where I can't go any higher, instead of the limit.

[AmyBerlin]

Dear Unice,

Is this Sadolin?

http://completevocalinstitute.com/

Yes, it is.

Amy

[Unice]

I think the advice from Melanie Anne suggests pulling the larynx forward and up while also holding your pitch down and relaxing.

The advice from FYFV suggests holding your pitch up, which also results in the larynx being pushed forward and up, and then relaxing.

If I have that right, that means that there are fewer actions you need to get right when pushing up than when pulling up.

I guess it would also make a difference if it is easier for an individual to avoid breaking from above or to avoid breaking from below.

If you don't break and you do that by widening part of your throat at the first break, pushing up or pulling up still applies, I think.

It would be very interesting to have a laryngoscope recording of my throat so I can see what is actually happening, somewhat.

[anjaq]

In the end, the trick is to speak in a way that makes the break go away. If speaking in a female resonance, which is the goal of these exercises as I understand it, and using a lot of good breathing, the break should basically fade away more or less. It still is there but not as noticeable. I guess if that is happening, one has gotten one step further

[AmyBerlin]

Hi Anja,

If speaking in a female resonance, which is the goal of these exercises as I understand it, and using a lot of good breathing, the break should basically fade away more or less. It still is there but not as noticeable.

That's true. In female resonance/Neutral voice, the break can be bypassed. You still feel there's a tiny bit of instability in the range where it occurs, but you can sustain a note in that range no problem.

Amy

[Unice]

If this was obvious from my post with the clips, sorry.

A way to sustain the note there is to make your throat into the shape of a yawn (one way, not the way). I gather the vibration is being stressed in a different place (front for falsetto, back for modal). The break is when you keep your throat in falsetto (mini-mouse) position and move down into modal register (deep voice), or you keep your throat in modal position and move up into falsetto.

An artificial way to cause the transition to not break is to make the yawning shape with your throat. But, I think really properly changing where you put the stress during the transition is what is needed. That is why, I think, the second clip that I posted doesn't sound much like a yawn when it transitions without breaking.

And, that applies when the voice is sustaining, not just when going from low to high or high to low. A voice within the passagio area between the two so-called registers sustains if the stress is not stuck in higher or lower register, but properly formed with stress in the middle.