Quote from: FA on April 09, 2014, 09:23:40 AM
Well, I've noticed something about when trans women talk about male programming and I do the reverse. I heard a lot from trans women that really scared me before transition. Because it sounded like I was going to be bombarded with all that in a very literal way. But it didn't happen that way. I still get and feel a lot of the expectations. But not as brutally as it sounded from some of the ladies. And I think part of that is probably that much of this programming takes place as kids. Male programming and all that probably is very cutthroat and brutal for boys and very young men. So most of the expectations and feelings I'm getting are internally. Other than a few odd looks, I really haven't had them literally enforced, you know?
I think this is where the disconnect and disbelief has come in with me talking about this. It's something that seems a lot more casual and unspoken. Like something that's just normal. Like for instance, a lot of guys don't understand why their pretty, skinny girlfriend is always asking if she looks fat and feels like she must take hours in the bathroom before showing her face anywhere. And she doesn't understand that he's got to act a certain way to keep up his image. Or she may overhear him with his friends going on about some girl's ass. And not realize that he's got to join in or at least nod and make some comment. It's just not on for him to do or say anything else. So part of it may be just not growing up that way, so it's harder to see until you're there and faced with the same things. And on both sides, it's probably a lot more pronounced the younger you are. A lot of the younger women here seem to get what I'm saying. And that's probably because it's more pronounced for them.
And of course, so many things go into it and someone's experience of it. Culture, country, environment, age, even sexuality - there was a study awhile back that showed that heterosexual women and gay women are affected a little differently. And that gay men are affected differently than straight men. As far as body image stuff. (god I'm so bad about retrieving these things when I need them). If true, it would make sense since men tend to focus more on looks and tend to prefer youthful partners. So, people competing for men probably have a little bit different experience.
And when you throw being trans into it - I probably did experience it differently than cis women. And I was turned on by women, so when I hit puberty I was like 'woah seeing tits everywhere!' But then also having tits - well that probably messed with things. Because I was objectifying women in a way but also becoming one... (later, I got into men too).
And of course for trans women - how to differentiate what is dysphoria over male residuals and what is the whole beauty trap? In a world where cis women are never good enough... having to deal with fears of looking male and all that op top of it...
And Erin, it must also be very different for you growing up with NF. And I can see how transition would throw a monkey wrench into all that all over again. But you and many others here seem to have gotten over one hurdle I can't seem to - posting a picture. Now, I probably wouldn't post one anyway due to privacy. But I'm unable to anywhere. And the main reason is, I don't think I could bear to see my face with every post. Now this thing is probably not just growing up female. Obviously teen girls are posting selfies everywhere. So maybe it was being trans, or maybe I'm just really out there. 
I would have to agree that culture seems to play a factor in it. Reading accounts here and on an NF support group I'm left with the impression that some areas of the US are far more critical of other in general than the are here in a major Canadian city.
Environment plays a role me me as well. Even when I was going through denial phases, I still internalized a lot of messages directed at females on the "value" of good looks. Thankfully this was countered by having my mother as a role model. She never seemed to play along with the notion. I never saw her wear makeup except for a few times in the early 80's. Any talk of dieting in our house was for the sake if better health rather than vanity.
One I started to give my self permission to see myself as a woman, all of those internalized messages from the mass media started to bubble to the surface. I feel the pressure to put more effort into my appearance with makeup, actually styling my hair, jewelry and the whole nine yards. I know better, yet those feeling are there and I'm left asking where they are really coming from.
That video you posted hit me on so many levels from my past. I too used to feel like I was some kind of creature that would be better off locked up somewhere.
I wished (and still do) that I could even come remotely close to being as beautiful and feminine looking as that woman. That somehow I would be loveable by someone other than my parents and a few friends if I looked that way, that I would have a chance at finally attracting someone - even if it was (is) for the wrong reasons.
And finally that song came out when I was 13 and starting to realize that there were a lot of things about being a male that I could not fake. I often felt like I had nothing to offer and would be that obnoxious kid in class who corrected the teacher only because I felt that's all I had going for me.
I went through two suicide attempts and a six month stint in a psychiatric ward for teenagers, and started to self medicate pot for most of my adulthood when I finally left.
I have a lot of skills to cope, but it proves to be an ongoing battle for me to maintain my self esteem. I have made a lot of strides, but I feel I still have so far to go. I get so frustrated some times because I feel it shouldn't be such a struggle.
Sorry, I guess I have my own ranting pent up.
